Been Overpaid - Now they want it back

[anonymous-user]

All you need to start a grievance is the following -

Dear [ ]

I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpayment of my salary.

The facts are these: From xxxx to yyyy the company erroneously paid me £NNN per month too much. I was not aware of this error until zzzz. The company has asked for the overpayment to be refunded by me, but has not engaged in reasonable discussions about repayment, and especially about the time for repayment. I have attempted on several occasions to discuss the matter, but the company has not engaged in discussion. I attach the relevant emails to this letter.

My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company. This has placed me in financial difficulty. It is not fair that I should have to suffer this difficulty because of the company's mistake. I have been legally advised that the company is not acting in a manner that is fair, reasonable and consistent with its obligation to maintain trust and confidence.

I therefore wish to invoke the grievance procedure. I am looking for, at the very least, a reasonable payment schedule. But before that can be agreed, the whole issue of the amount of repayment should please be discussed. This letter has been written with the benefit of legal advice. I reserve all of my rights. I await hearing from you as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely


EDIT - typos corrected to keep some snarky tosser happy.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 1st June 11:35

[AndrewEH1]

Breadvan72 said:

hast2 said:

AndrewEH1 said:

Is there a union in your workplace?

No.

There should be. It is fashionable nowadays, and especially on PH, to deride unions. But people in the low to medium pay sectors get trashed by employers too often, and unions can sometimes do something about that.

I am reading "Back from the Brink", Michael Edwardes' narrative of the saving of BL 1977-1982. As my late father (a BL man and one of Edwardes' team in the factories) always said, it was crappy management (plus crappy Government) that did more to harm BL than crappy unions.

Quite, situations exactly like this is why unions can be good.

[hast2]

Breadvan72 said:

All you need to start a grievance is the following -

Dear [ ]

I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpaymant of my salary.

The facts are these: From xxxx to yyyy the company erroneously paid me £NNN per month too much. I was not aware of this error until zzzz. The company has asked for the overpayment to be refunded by me, but has not engaged in reasonable discussions about repayment, and especially about the time for repayment. I have attempted on several occasions to discuss the matter, but the company has not engaged in discussion. I attach the relevant emails to this letter.

My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company. This has place me in financial difficulty. It is not fair that I should have to suffer this difficulty because of the company's mistake. I have been legally advised that the company is not acting in a manner that is fair, reasonable and consistent with its obligation to maintain trust and confidence.

I therefore wish to invoke the grievance procedure. I am looking for, at the very least, a reasonable payment schedule. But before that can be agreed, the whole issue of the amount of repayment should please be discussed. This letter has been written with the benefit of legal advice. I reserve all of my rights. I await hearing from you as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Thank you very much Breadvan72, that's more than generous of you to provide this.

[Antony Moxey]

Breadvan72 said:

All you need to start a grievance is the following -

Dear [ ]

I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpaymant of my salary.

The facts are these: From xxxx to yyyy the company erroneously paid me £NNN per month too much. I was not aware of this error until zzzz. The company has asked for the overpayment to be refunded by me, but has not engaged in reasonable discussions about repayment, and especially about the time for repayment. I have attempted on several occasions to discuss the matter, but the company has not engaged in discussion. I attach the relevant emails to this letter.

My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company. This has place me in financial difficulty. It is not fair that I should have to suffer this difficulty because of the company's mistake. I have been legally advised that the company is not acting in a manner that is fair, reasonable and consistent with its obligation to maintain trust and confidence.

I therefore wish to invoke the grievance procedure. I am looking for, at the very least, a reasonable payment schedule. But before that can be agreed, the whole issue of the amount of repayment should please be discussed. This letter has been written with the benefit of legal advice. I reserve all of my rights. I await hearing from you as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

If I may, might there be a couple of errors in that?
"I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpaymant of my salary." 'Overpaymant' should be 'overpayment'
"My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company." Should 'claimed' be 'reclaimed'?
"This has place me in financial difficulty." Should 'place' be 'placed'?

[hast2]

Antony Moxey said:

If I may, might there be a couple of errors in that?
"I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpaymant of my salary." 'Overpaymant' should be 'overpayment'
"My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company." Should 'claimed' be 'reclaimed'?
"This has place me in financial difficulty." Should 'place' be 'placed'?

Forgive me if you think I'm being a bit harsh, but, Breadvan has kindly provide this information for FREE when he has no obligation to do so. This is his day job, and providing this sort of stuff for FREE is like having a plumber come round and fix a leaky pipe for nothing. I don't think nit picking over minor grammatical errors is polite under the circumstances.

I've not double checked to see who's version would be grammatically correct, neither do I care.

[Eric Mc]

You're getting a grammar and spelling correction service for free too. Don't knock it.

[anonymous-user]

Antony Moxey said:

[

If I may, might there be a couple of errors in that?
"I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpaymant of my salary." 'Overpaymant' should be 'overpayment'
"My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company." Should 'claimed' be 'reclaimed'?
"This has place me in financial difficulty." Should 'place' be 'placed'?

OK, so you spotted some typos. Big wow for you. I was trying to help, and typing in a hurry. Thanks for your very positive contribution to the thread.

[Antony Moxey]

Breadvan72 said:

Antony Moxey said:

[

If I may, might there be a couple of errors in that?
"I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpaymant of my salary." 'Overpaymant' should be 'overpayment'
"My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company." Should 'claimed' be 'reclaimed'?
"This has place me in financial difficulty." Should 'place' be 'placed'?

OK, so you spotted some typos. Big wow for you. I was trying to help, and typing in a hurry. Thanks for your very positive contribution to the thread.

No need for that, I was only trying to help same as you. I especially don't need the 'tosser' comment either, I wasn't trying to be clever or some sort of grammar nazi.

Edited by Antony Moxey on Thursday 1st June 12:37

[Pothole]

swerni said:

hast2 said:

I'm a salary employee, I have no need to check my wage slip every month,

Wouldn't the situation you're currently in contradict that statement?


PS I'm an employee

Not unless something was likely to happen every month, no. Try not to be silly,

[Pothole]

hast2 said:

Antony Moxey said:

If I may, might there be a couple of errors in that?
"I would like to raise a grievance about the handling of an overpaymant of my salary." 'Overpaymant' should be 'overpayment'
"My most recent salary payment has had an amount equal to one quarter of the amount claimed by the company." Should 'claimed' be 'reclaimed'?
"This has place me in financial difficulty." Should 'place' be 'placed'?

Forgive me if you think I'm being a bit harsh, but, Breadvan has kindly provide this information for FREE when he has no obligation to do so. This is his day job, and providing this sort of stuff for FREE is like having a plumber come round and fix a leaky pipe for nothing. I don't think nit picking over minor grammatical errors is polite under the circumstances.

I've not double checked to see who's version would be grammatically correct, neither do I care.

whose

[anonymous-user]

Antony Moxey said:

...I was only trying to help same as you...

If you don't want to people to think you're being a snippy smartarse, don't post like a snippy smartarse.

[Antony Moxey]

Breadvan72 said:

Antony Moxey said:

...I was only trying to help same as you...

If you don't want to people to think you're being a snippy smartarse, don't post like a snippy smartarse.

I wasn't. You can interpret my intentions however you wish, but it certainly wasn't to be a 'snippy smartarse'. I don't really know how else to post other than how I did.

[craigjm]

Antony Moxey said:

Breadvan72 said:

Antony Moxey said:

...I was only trying to help same as you...

If you don't want to people to think you're being a snippy smartarse, don't post like a snippy smartarse.

I wasn't. You can interpret my intentions however you wish, but it certainly wasn't to be a 'snippy smartarse'. I don't really know how else to post other than how I did.

It probably would have been better to post a corrected version of the whole letter simply saying something like.... I have spotted a couple of typos and errors so have tidied it up for you.

The way that you presented it was in the style of lots of people who frequent this place that simply delight at correcting spelling and grammar. As you suggest that this was not your intention then that's fine but people here do tend to get twitchy about it.

Great advice breadvan.

[Antony Moxey]

I would have thought my opening sentence would have shown I wasn't trying to point score - I'm well aware of the grammar Nazis on here and deliberately tried not to come across as one as that sort of thing easily derails a thread which will do the OP no favours at all.

So apologies to the OP, I wish you a successful outcome to your grievance.

[craigjm]

Antony Moxey said:

I would have thought my opening sentence would have shown I wasn't trying to point score - I'm well aware of the grammar Nazis on here and deliberately tried not to come across as one as that sort of thing easily derails a thread which will do the OP no favours at all.

So apologies to the OP, I wish you a successful outcome to your grievance.

No worries. I agree, they derail far too many threads.

[hast2]

Update........

Not heard a peep on the subject since I sent my e-mail on Monday expressing my disappointment that they had taken the money from my wages and that I wanted to discuss it further.

Going to head down the grievance route as suggested by Breadvan and others. I guess if nothing else it'll make next week a bit more interesting.

It's surprising how stressful it is having to fight with folk over simple stuff - all I want is to have a civil and informed conversation about what has happened, the tax implications and some sort of discussion on how best to resolve the problem.

[TheAngryDog]

hast2 said:

Wondering if someone I the know could let me know what carries more weight - my contract of employment or law?

I know now, that legally my company can take the money back, however my contract of employment mentions a long list of reasons why they'll take money out my wages, and over payments isn't on the list.

It says - The company reserve the right to make deductions from pay under the following circumstances : lateness, absence, loss of company tools, arrestment by court order. No other deductions will be made without the employees written authority.

Thanks to those for their helpful comments so far (especially Breadvan).

I have sent my manager a polite email pointing out that I'm disappointed in the situation, explained the unexpected financial strain this will put me under, and could they reconsider their position. I've also asked them to look into the Tax and NI stuff and explain the repercussions to me since it'll be across 2 tax years.

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but did you sign anything to say that this was ok? Is there such a thing as an employer being in breach of their own contract?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Breadvan72 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Hasn't the "you have to pay it back" stance changed since Keenan V Barclays 2009 .

Not only did Keenan get to keep the overpayment, but Barclays were ordered to continue paying her the incorrect amount as she'd got used to it and now had ongoing commitments based on the incorrect salary!!!

No, nothing has changed.

That case -

(1) was decided by an employment tribunal, and so the decision does not bind any other tribunal or any court;

(2) turned on its own facts.

Ok, wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info.

But out of interest, this happened to a friend of mine, and in the absence of your expertise, I told her to write to her employer quoting the above case and saying if they waived the repayment of monies overpaid, she'd waive the right to fight for the overpayment to continue.

They agreed!!!

Might be worth the OP doing the same.

[anonymous-user]

TheAngryDog said:

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but did you sign anything to say that this was ok? Is there such a thing as an employer being in breach of their own contract?

Is that a serious question? Any party to any contract is capable of breaching the contract. Making a lawful deduction from pay would not be a breach of contract. The OP's employer might, however, (NB I say might) have managed the situation in such a way as to breach the implied term as to trust and confidence.

Note also that in most but not all legal contexts there is no magic attached to signatures. Non lawyers often assume that everything has to be signed. That is not so. Some things do, most things don't.

[TheAngryDog]

It was a badly worded question. However my point was that if they have taken the funds without his agreement in writing, as per his contract, then they surely would be in breach of it? I am sure that if he breached his contract then I would imagine that they would come down on him like a tonne of bricks!