Issues with colleague (performance and mediation)
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
That may be an error. If the idiot child becomes litigious, then a good email record of fair deliberations may be helpful to the company. If I was counsel for the idiot child at a tribunal (and NB Bank of Pushy Parents Ltd may fund a case), I could and would make much of gaps and silences in the email record.
"Ms X, you say that you discussed Y at a meeting on 10th June. Can you explain why there is no record of that meeting in any diary, email, memorandum or other document?"
"Mr B, you say that you and other members of the management team had concerns about my client's performance since January. Can you explain why those concerns are nowhere recorded in any of the documents before this tribunal?"
And so on...
Absolutely agree with all of the above, and if you are conscious of this, you have the luxury of constructing and leaving the audit trail you want read..."Ms X, you say that you discussed Y at a meeting on 10th June. Can you explain why there is no record of that meeting in any diary, email, memorandum or other document?"
"Mr B, you say that you and other members of the management team had concerns about my client's performance since January. Can you explain why those concerns are nowhere recorded in any of the documents before this tribunal?"
And so on...
Edited by Breadvan72 on Thursday 1st June 10:30
P
Sa Calobra said:
Is she brass necked? Surely she must know she isn't doing well and possibly not thought of in high regard?! If this was me I'd be looking at a exit to another business with my head held high. Not a question mark on a reference or stress.
I'm guessing she doesn't think like normal ..
In all seriousness no, she started out very polite and nice and it appears that she still thinks she is genuinely being wronged here. For a moment it appeared that she had realised it was all going a bit wrong for her when she came out of a meeting with her manager very, very upset and packed up and left in a hurry (I felt pity for about a minute then remembered that she brought all of this upon herself) then phoned in sick the following week. She then came back all high and mighty again so it would appear not. Unbelievable. I'm guessing she doesn't think like normal ..
HomesRose said:
Sa Calobra said:
Is she brass necked? Surely she must know she isn't doing well and possibly not thought of in high regard?! If this was me I'd be looking at a exit to another business with my head held high. Not a question mark on a reference or stress.
I'm guessing she doesn't think like normal ..
In all seriousness no, she started out very polite and nice and it appears that she still thinks she is genuinely being wronged here. For a moment it appeared that she had realised it was all going a bit wrong for her when she came out of a meeting with her manager very, very upset and packed up and left in a hurry (I felt pity for about a minute then remembered that she brought all of this upon herself) then phoned in sick the following week. She then came back all high and mighty again so it would appear not. Unbelievable. I'm guessing she doesn't think like normal ..
Being upset, etc after the meeting is understandable, but then to just up and leave is a bit childish.
Looks like she then got some advice to get signed off with stress instead of man up and go into work and be seen to make a difference in her performance and sort it out, that would have been seen as a massive positive by business (or at least in my company).
That behavior would be the beginning of the end as we would guess the next stage would be her last stage of her being high and mighty as she thinks she has a case.
I suspect the only reason she thinks she has a case is due to her not actually telling the truth to whomever she talked to and is now on for a massive fall.
Shame it takes this for some people to learn that this is not playschool anymore, this is the real world and you have to work hard to get anywhere.
So they would like to have a mediation session next Monday. The idea is that it would be two hours 1:1 with each of us then a group session lasting a few hours in the afternoon. It's being held in our office in another city a 2 hour commute from my house (in the office she moved to), so I'm a bit peeved but apparently this is where the mediator is based.
So, here we are. Something tells me I don't need two hours to discuss my "issues"...
So, here we are. Something tells me I don't need two hours to discuss my "issues"...
Be polite and engaged with the process, but also be firm and maintain that you are not at fault. Resist attempts by the Millennial kidult to dictate the agenda.
A good mediator is not neutral. A good mediator sees which side of the dispute is being unreasonable (sometimes it is both), and seeks to engender a change of position by one or both parties. Are you being offered another manager to go with you as your supporter/advocate?
A good mediator is not neutral. A good mediator sees which side of the dispute is being unreasonable (sometimes it is both), and seeks to engender a change of position by one or both parties. Are you being offered another manager to go with you as your supporter/advocate?
Breadvan72 said:
Be polite and engaged with the process, but also be firm and maintain that you are not at fault. Resist attempts by the Millennial kidult to dictate the agenda.
A good mediator is not neutral. A good mediator sees which side of the dispute is being unreasonable (sometimes it is both), and seeks to engender a change of position by one or both parties. Are you being offered another manager to go with you as your supporter/advocate?
Thank you, I'm not pleased about having to make the additional effort but I will cooperate and engage to move this along and play my part. A good mediator is not neutral. A good mediator sees which side of the dispute is being unreasonable (sometimes it is both), and seeks to engender a change of position by one or both parties. Are you being offered another manager to go with you as your supporter/advocate?
I haven't been offered the option of someone else attending with me, I've thought about it but I'm not sure if this is a worthwhile action. Do you have any thoughts on this?
There's no concerns raised with the OPs performance and it hasn't been focused on per se? I think it'd appear odd and other party could read something into it?
Could this topic vanish/is it safe left on here? I say this as years ago my old employer had an issue with invoices not being paid by a customer and I came on here to seek advice. Said supplier by coincidence saw the post.
Could this topic vanish/is it safe left on here? I say this as years ago my old employer had an issue with invoices not being paid by a customer and I came on here to seek advice. Said supplier by coincidence saw the post.
So mediation was today. We had separate sessions with the mediator in the morning followed by a group session in the afternoon.
To summarise, it was a fairly uncomfortable and draining process. It's clear that I'm the blame of everything and anything that's gone wrong and that she continues to feel that way despite all of the HR intervention, the outcome of the 'investigation' and other ongoing matters. There were new accusations brought up which I struck out and she also effectively said I was a liar then had a bit of attitude about it. All positive in a sense as I think it clearly demonstrated the crux of the issue and the mediator intervened and said the behaviour had been inappropriate on her behalf.
We've agreed on ways of communicating going forward with a view to minimise follow up issues and complaints. I think she still has some deep rooted issues that can't be solved in mediation but I don't really think there is a solution as such as she fails to recognise her part in all of this. I think she believes this is a conspiracy that I'm leading and I've influenced other people to be bad to her and withhold work from her. In reality, we are all intelligent adults who have expressed our views and said views are consistent with one another. I also just want to come to work to do my job and have a peaceful life.
I'm now going home for a cup of tea and an early night!
To summarise, it was a fairly uncomfortable and draining process. It's clear that I'm the blame of everything and anything that's gone wrong and that she continues to feel that way despite all of the HR intervention, the outcome of the 'investigation' and other ongoing matters. There were new accusations brought up which I struck out and she also effectively said I was a liar then had a bit of attitude about it. All positive in a sense as I think it clearly demonstrated the crux of the issue and the mediator intervened and said the behaviour had been inappropriate on her behalf.
We've agreed on ways of communicating going forward with a view to minimise follow up issues and complaints. I think she still has some deep rooted issues that can't be solved in mediation but I don't really think there is a solution as such as she fails to recognise her part in all of this. I think she believes this is a conspiracy that I'm leading and I've influenced other people to be bad to her and withhold work from her. In reality, we are all intelligent adults who have expressed our views and said views are consistent with one another. I also just want to come to work to do my job and have a peaceful life.
I'm now going home for a cup of tea and an early night!
Time, perhaps, for you to get a bit tough with management and say that this employee needs to be fired, or moved away from your team. Does the company derive greater value from you, or from her? I suspect the former. If things carry on to the point where you are feeling stressed and unsupported by the company, you could be the one raising a grievance. Why not talk to a headhunter and see if there is a job elsewhere? Not to move to, necessarily, but to let your management know that if they don't back you up then you might be off (and they might get a constructive dismissal claim from you to boot). I am not suggesting that you go full shouty right away, but you may want to have a serious talk along the lines of "back me or sack me".
Breadvan72 said:
Time, perhaps, for you to get a bit tough with management and say that this employee needs to be fired, or moved away from your team. Does the company derive greater value from you, or from her? I suspect the former. If things carry on to the point where you are feeling stressed and unsupported by the company, you could be the one raising a grievance. Why not talk to a headhunter and see if there is a job elsewhere? Not to move to, necessarily, but to let your management know that if they don't back you up then you might be off (and they might get a constructive dismissal claim from you to boot). I am not suggesting that you go full shouty right away, but you may want to have a serious talk along the lines of "back me or sack me".
You've absolutely nailed my current line of thinking. I've reflected for the last hour and am starting to feel quite irritated now. Not only that, I've gone home early with a sore stomach feeling just horrible, drained and unhappy. If I feel like this tomorrow then I'm taking a day or as long as I need before I go back into the office. It's a catch 22 - I don't want to keep discussing this in work but I'm also fed up and want something done about the situation as I can't keep going on like this. I make this 9 months now.
Call for a serious meeting with your most serious boss. Make it very clear that you feel that the weak approach of HR has let this employee cause way too much hassle, and that you now expect to be supported, as you are an experienced and valuable employee. If need be the employee should be moved elsewhere, but maybe the company should stop being timid and should fire her. If need be play the stress card yourself.
I took Tuesday off sick and stayed at home to try and switch off. I also wanted to highlight the impact this is having on me as I think that that's been lost a bit in the process.
I had a meeting with the most senior person in our team when I came back who apologised for the way Monday went, how this is making me feel and also made it very clear again that I have their full support.
Unfortunately, it looks likely that her performance whilst on her performance plan has been OK and there aren't going to be clear enough grounds to sack her at this point. Not only does that mean she's going to get to stick around, Monday demonstrated that she has taken zero accountability for what's happened and thinks her performance is good, so this will just turn that up.
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've gone for promotion and I find out within the next week if I've been successful so I'm trying to minimise any fuss at the moment. By Friday (post promotion news and post performance plan outcome) I'll be able to clearly assess what happens next. It doesn't look like this is about to resolve itself soon though sadly.
I had a meeting with the most senior person in our team when I came back who apologised for the way Monday went, how this is making me feel and also made it very clear again that I have their full support.
Unfortunately, it looks likely that her performance whilst on her performance plan has been OK and there aren't going to be clear enough grounds to sack her at this point. Not only does that mean she's going to get to stick around, Monday demonstrated that she has taken zero accountability for what's happened and thinks her performance is good, so this will just turn that up.
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've gone for promotion and I find out within the next week if I've been successful so I'm trying to minimise any fuss at the moment. By Friday (post promotion news and post performance plan outcome) I'll be able to clearly assess what happens next. It doesn't look like this is about to resolve itself soon though sadly.
To me it sounds like the firm have decided that carrying this difficult trainee is the easiest option.
Personally, I would be evaluating my options once the promotion process is over, however it went.
On one hand, they are signalling that unprofessional behaviour is fine within their professional services employees - maybe you could and colleagues could follow suit now that this has been made clear... what's good for the goose, after all ...
Or, I would personally be looking to move onwards and upwards, taking any learning from the situation that I could, but definitely looking for a change of scenery. Maybe it's time for a change.
Personally, I would be evaluating my options once the promotion process is over, however it went.
On one hand, they are signalling that unprofessional behaviour is fine within their professional services employees - maybe you could and colleagues could follow suit now that this has been made clear... what's good for the goose, after all ...
Or, I would personally be looking to move onwards and upwards, taking any learning from the situation that I could, but definitely looking for a change of scenery. Maybe it's time for a change.
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