Career change to law, realistic?
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
Delicate little flowers, these lawyer typesBreadvan72 said:
FFS indeed. I remember my criminal law lecturer on the CPE telling us how the definition of rape had changed "In my day it was up to t'buffers...". God knows how today's students would react to that.Breadvan72 said:
I am not sure that the applicants are quite aware of how hard they will have to work. The firms show them all the good bits and do not tell them it's a Faustian bargain. The drop out rate is quite striking, I gather.
I think you're right - the chargeable hours target may not look that high in theory, but the reality of actually averaging say 7 chargeable hours a day can be very different when you take into account admin, business development, CPD, other non-chargeable time. Plus it is all too easy to get caught up in the buzz of the big deals and the big hours. Add to that a ferociously competitive marketplace where no client's deadline is too unreasonable, and it can be a pretty unhealthy lifestyle. Then, to add insult to injury, you get helpful pop up messages from your time recording software such as "Warning: [date] is on a weekend". Yes, the money seems great at the big firms, but the tendency is to spend it big too. Never get a trainee to check out how the number of hours they put in stacks up against the national minimum wage hourly rate...I work in house now. Almost certainly earn less than I could in private practice, but it's a very comfortable amount by most people's standards, plus I enjoy the work far more, have no timesheets/hours targets, and if I leave the office between 6 and 6:30pm, I'll be one of the last to leave. If I want to stay beyond 8pm, I have to get some sort of special sign off (I haven't needed to find out what the process is in the 3 and half years I've been there...).
Europa1 said:
I think you're right - the chargeable hours target may not look that high in theory, but the reality of actually averaging say 7 chargeable hours a day can be very different when you take into account admin, business development, CPD, other non-chargeable time. Plus it is all too easy to get caught up in the buzz of the big deals and the big hours. Add to that a ferociously competitive marketplace where no client's deadline is too unreasonable, and it can be a pretty unhealthy lifestyle. Then, to add insult to injury, you get helpful pop up messages from your time recording software such as "Warning: [date] is on a weekend". Yes, the money seems great at the big firms, but the tendency is to spend it big too. Never get a trainee to check out how the number of hours they put in stacks up against the national minimum wage hourly rate...
I work in house now. Almost certainly earn less than I could in private practice, but it's a very comfortable amount by most people's standards, plus I enjoy the work far more, have no timesheets/hours targets, and if I leave the office between 6 and 6:30pm, I'll be one of the last to leave. If I want to stay beyond 8pm, I have to get some sort of special sign off (I haven't needed to find out what the process is in the 3 and half years I've been there...).
Yep agree as well I know a few working for MC and large American ones, of the few that went down that route a fair percentage no longer work for them (or at least qualified and left soon after where possible).
I work in house now. Almost certainly earn less than I could in private practice, but it's a very comfortable amount by most people's standards, plus I enjoy the work far more, have no timesheets/hours targets, and if I leave the office between 6 and 6:30pm, I'll be one of the last to leave. If I want to stay beyond 8pm, I have to get some sort of special sign off (I haven't needed to find out what the process is in the 3 and half years I've been there...).
Yep agree as well I know a few working for MC and large American ones, of the few that went down that route a fair percentage no longer work for them (or at least qualified and left soon after where possible).
After over 15 years in one of the city law firms, I am looking forward to leaving at the end of the month.
Last time I looked we had over 3000 applicants for 30 trainee positions.
Most trainee's are not prepared for the hours or the company's expectations and most of the those 30 would not be given jobs at the end of their training contracts or will leave within a year or two as the reality of the situation becomes apparent.
Only the very committed survive.
Last time I looked we had over 3000 applicants for 30 trainee positions.
Most trainee's are not prepared for the hours or the company's expectations and most of the those 30 would not be given jobs at the end of their training contracts or will leave within a year or two as the reality of the situation becomes apparent.
Only the very committed survive.
One of the biggest scandals is the Bar Vocational Course. It is open to anyone who will stump up 18K, but most who take the course have small chance of obtaining a pupillage, let alone a tenancy.
In a posh set of chambers doing commercial or chancery work, a pupil will be paid about 65K, and if taken on will soon be grossing a six figure sum (less chambers deductions of anything from 12 to 30 plus percent and before tax). Things are much less rosy at the criminal and general common law Bar, where pay and morale are poor.
In a posh set of chambers doing commercial or chancery work, a pupil will be paid about 65K, and if taken on will soon be grossing a six figure sum (less chambers deductions of anything from 12 to 30 plus percent and before tax). Things are much less rosy at the criminal and general common law Bar, where pay and morale are poor.
)Breadvan72 said:
One of the biggest scandals is the Bar Vocational Course. It is open to anyone who will stump up 18K, but most who take the course have small chance of obtaining a pupillage, let alone a tenancy.
In a posh set of chambers doing commercial or chancery work, a pupil will be paid about 65K, and if taken on will soon be grossing a six figure sum (less chambers deductions of anything from 12 to 30 plus percent and before tax). Things are much less rosy at the criminal and general common law Bar, where pay and morale are poor.
LPC and BVC are a joke. When you look at the % chance of gaining a training contract it is a con.In a posh set of chambers doing commercial or chancery work, a pupil will be paid about 65K, and if taken on will soon be grossing a six figure sum (less chambers deductions of anything from 12 to 30 plus percent and before tax). Things are much less rosy at the criminal and general common law Bar, where pay and morale are poor.
It should be brought into line with accountancy in that you do the applied qualification alongside your training contract so that you know, at the end of it, the LPC/BVC will actually have been a necessary qualification and you can apply the theory directly in practice as you learn it.The idea you waste another £15k - £20k and a year of your life doing a practice course that you may never have any use for if you don't gain a TC within 8(?) years is ridiculous.
Shnozz said:
LPC and BVC are a joke. When you look at the % chance of gaining a training contract it is a con.
It should be brought into line with accountancy in that you do the applied qualification alongside your training contract so that you know, at the end of it, the LPC/BVC will actually have been a necessary qualification and you can apply the theory directly in practice as you learn it.The idea you waste another £15k - £20k and a year of your life doing a practice course that you may never have any use for if you don't gain a TC within 8(?) years is ridiculous.
It is actually 7 years (or at least it was when I did my LPC).It should be brought into line with accountancy in that you do the applied qualification alongside your training contract so that you know, at the end of it, the LPC/BVC will actually have been a necessary qualification and you can apply the theory directly in practice as you learn it.The idea you waste another £15k - £20k and a year of your life doing a practice course that you may never have any use for if you don't gain a TC within 8(?) years is ridiculous.
I sort of agree with that statement, but equally I know a "few" that have parents or grandparents that had careers in law and ended up with a TC, where as some slightly brighter ones failed to get TC's (or have now taken about 4-5 years to get a chance of a TC, and in some cases are "abused" on the hope of getting a TC). Would I touch them with a barge pole (the ones gifted TC's)? You must be joking, accidents waiting to happen.
Having done the LPC now, would I do it again, questionable (as I am one that did it and did not have a TC). In some way on reflection I think routes such as CILEX are actually better (and produce better solicitors should someone wish to go that far).
Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 15th December 07:38
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