Freelance work issue...no HR ...legal???
Discussion
Hope this is the correct forum for this. Not car related , but hope you wise PHers can assist.
So, I work freelance on v short term gigs. Have done for years...ups and downs, buy generally fine.
One of my main clients changed the person who books us recently. Confident, competent, if inexperienced, single fella, mid 20s, lives for work and sport.
Anyway, he's decided that I'm no longer to be involved. Cites lack of enthusiasm, and difficulty in communication as reasons. Changed booking method from his work e mail to whatsapp and no response within 10-15 mins illicits a further WA.
Anyway, he's never said anything before, no warning, no notice, no problems and then after I sensed something was up, an apology for not handling things well, but that's it.
Probably 20% of my work, plus related to other clients,so I cant just tell him to stick it, unfortunately...i have a family to think of.
So, without notice, I'm missing out on a fair amount of work.
His reasons are demonstrably and clearly spurious.
He's clearly come to some other arrangement. An arrangement with people who have never shown loyalty and commitment to the company as I have done for years.
Well, all's fair in the freelance world, you might say, but the company he works for has always treated people fairly and looked after us.
This no notice, spurious reason stuff is shabby and not normally how the company is run.
I've called him out on his reasons and he says we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Shabby and unwarranted treatment has been my response...I'd previously had a good relationship with him.
If you're still with me (thank you!), obviously this would have been a matter for HR, but I'm freelance, so that isn't an option.
I've pointed out that his reasons are nonsense but he remains unmoved. He's young and inexperienced and doesn't see that thus is a major thing to do to me...he has no idea of family responsibilities etc.
I think he's expecting me to walk away meekly and take whatever scraps he offers me in the future, but no way.
His boss who I've known for years, is a decent and honorable fella and may be receptive to my point if view.
Its more like that anyone in the company will back him against a freelancer , but I cant just let this happen with some justifiable pushback.
As I say, I've been loyal to that company for years in a freelance context, and now he's favouring people who aren't.
Nothing to stop him, but its shoddy treatment and I'm furious. The way he's done it is sneaky too. Leaving it until it was too late fir me to try to make alternative arrangements
But what can I do?
He won't see sense.
Should I approach his boss and see if he's sympathetic ?
I assume there's no legal redress, though he has written e mails that are wrong in fact about my work and methods.
In truth, I do a very high standard of work without demonstrating the kind if youthful enthusiasm he might exude. That's the problem, and it shouldn't lead to this situation.
So, any thoughts, wisdom, experience, advice?
Thank you so much in advance.
So, I work freelance on v short term gigs. Have done for years...ups and downs, buy generally fine.
One of my main clients changed the person who books us recently. Confident, competent, if inexperienced, single fella, mid 20s, lives for work and sport.
Anyway, he's decided that I'm no longer to be involved. Cites lack of enthusiasm, and difficulty in communication as reasons. Changed booking method from his work e mail to whatsapp and no response within 10-15 mins illicits a further WA.
Anyway, he's never said anything before, no warning, no notice, no problems and then after I sensed something was up, an apology for not handling things well, but that's it.
Probably 20% of my work, plus related to other clients,so I cant just tell him to stick it, unfortunately...i have a family to think of.
So, without notice, I'm missing out on a fair amount of work.
His reasons are demonstrably and clearly spurious.
He's clearly come to some other arrangement. An arrangement with people who have never shown loyalty and commitment to the company as I have done for years.
Well, all's fair in the freelance world, you might say, but the company he works for has always treated people fairly and looked after us.
This no notice, spurious reason stuff is shabby and not normally how the company is run.
I've called him out on his reasons and he says we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Shabby and unwarranted treatment has been my response...I'd previously had a good relationship with him.
If you're still with me (thank you!), obviously this would have been a matter for HR, but I'm freelance, so that isn't an option.
I've pointed out that his reasons are nonsense but he remains unmoved. He's young and inexperienced and doesn't see that thus is a major thing to do to me...he has no idea of family responsibilities etc.
I think he's expecting me to walk away meekly and take whatever scraps he offers me in the future, but no way.
His boss who I've known for years, is a decent and honorable fella and may be receptive to my point if view.
Its more like that anyone in the company will back him against a freelancer , but I cant just let this happen with some justifiable pushback.
As I say, I've been loyal to that company for years in a freelance context, and now he's favouring people who aren't.
Nothing to stop him, but its shoddy treatment and I'm furious. The way he's done it is sneaky too. Leaving it until it was too late fir me to try to make alternative arrangements
But what can I do?
He won't see sense.
Should I approach his boss and see if he's sympathetic ?
I assume there's no legal redress, though he has written e mails that are wrong in fact about my work and methods.
In truth, I do a very high standard of work without demonstrating the kind if youthful enthusiasm he might exude. That's the problem, and it shouldn't lead to this situation.
So, any thoughts, wisdom, experience, advice?
Thank you so much in advance.
Sorry, admin.....Hope this is the correct forum for this. Not car related , but hope you wise PHers can assist.
So, I work freelance on v short term gigs. Have done for years...ups and downs, buy generally fine.
One of my main clients changed the person who books us recently. Confident, competent, if inexperienced, single fella, mid 20s, lives for work and sport.
Anyway, he's decided that I'm no longer to be involved. Cites lack of enthusiasm, and difficulty in communication as reasons. Changed booking method from his work e mail to whatsapp and no response within 10-15 mins illicits a further WA.
Anyway, he's never said anything before, no warning, no notice, no problems and then after I sensed something was up, an apology for not handling things well, but that's it.
Probably 20% of my work, plus related to other clients,so I cant just tell him to stick it, unfortunately...i have a family to think of.
So, without notice, I'm missing out on a fair amount of work.
His reasons are demonstrably and clearly spurious.
He's clearly come to some other arrangement. An arrangement with people who have never shown loyalty and commitment to the company as I have done for years.
Well, all's fair in the freelance world, you might say, but the company he works for has always treated people fairly and looked after us.
This no notice, spurious reason stuff is shabby and not normally how the company is run.
I've called him out on his reasons and he says we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Shabby and unwarranted treatment has been my response...I'd previously had a good relationship with him.
If you're still with me (thank you!), obviously this would have been a matter for HR, but I'm freelance, so that isn't an option.
I've pointed out that his reasons are nonsense but he remains unmoved. He's young and inexperienced and doesn't see that thus is a major thing to do to me...he has no idea of family responsibilities etc.
I think he's expecting me to walk away meekly and take whatever scraps he offers me in the future, but no way.
His boss who I've known for years, is a decent and honorable fella and may be receptive to my point if view.
Its more like that anyone in the company will back him against a freelancer , but I cant just let this happen with some justifiable pushback.
As I say, I've been loyal to that company for years in a freelance context, and now he's favouring people who aren't.
Nothing to stop him, but its shoddy treatment and I'm furious. The way he's done it is sneaky too. Leaving it until it was too late fir me to try to make alternative arrangements
But what can I do?
He won't see sense.
Should I approach his boss and see if he's sympathetic ?
I assume there's no legal redress, though he has written e mails that are wrong in fact about my work and methods.
In truth, I do a very high standard of work without demonstrating the kind if youthful enthusiasm he might exude. That's the problem, and it shouldn't lead to this situation.
So, any thoughts, wisdom, experience, advice?
Thank you so much in advance
So, I work freelance on v short term gigs. Have done for years...ups and downs, buy generally fine.
One of my main clients changed the person who books us recently. Confident, competent, if inexperienced, single fella, mid 20s, lives for work and sport.
Anyway, he's decided that I'm no longer to be involved. Cites lack of enthusiasm, and difficulty in communication as reasons. Changed booking method from his work e mail to whatsapp and no response within 10-15 mins illicits a further WA.
Anyway, he's never said anything before, no warning, no notice, no problems and then after I sensed something was up, an apology for not handling things well, but that's it.
Probably 20% of my work, plus related to other clients,so I cant just tell him to stick it, unfortunately...i have a family to think of.
So, without notice, I'm missing out on a fair amount of work.
His reasons are demonstrably and clearly spurious.
He's clearly come to some other arrangement. An arrangement with people who have never shown loyalty and commitment to the company as I have done for years.
Well, all's fair in the freelance world, you might say, but the company he works for has always treated people fairly and looked after us.
This no notice, spurious reason stuff is shabby and not normally how the company is run.
I've called him out on his reasons and he says we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Shabby and unwarranted treatment has been my response...I'd previously had a good relationship with him.
If you're still with me (thank you!), obviously this would have been a matter for HR, but I'm freelance, so that isn't an option.
I've pointed out that his reasons are nonsense but he remains unmoved. He's young and inexperienced and doesn't see that thus is a major thing to do to me...he has no idea of family responsibilities etc.
I think he's expecting me to walk away meekly and take whatever scraps he offers me in the future, but no way.
His boss who I've known for years, is a decent and honorable fella and may be receptive to my point if view.
Its more like that anyone in the company will back him against a freelancer , but I cant just let this happen with some justifiable pushback.
As I say, I've been loyal to that company for years in a freelance context, and now he's favouring people who aren't.
Nothing to stop him, but its shoddy treatment and I'm furious. The way he's done it is sneaky too. Leaving it until it was too late fir me to try to make alternative arrangements
But what can I do?
He won't see sense.
Should I approach his boss and see if he's sympathetic ?
I assume there's no legal redress, though he has written e mails that are wrong in fact about my work and methods.
In truth, I do a very high standard of work without demonstrating the kind if youthful enthusiasm he might exude. That's the problem, and it shouldn't lead to this situation.
So, any thoughts, wisdom, experience, advice?
Thank you so much in advance
I think that your only course of action is to approach his boss, with an assurance from you that you will use your best endeavours to bring this man on side and ensure that this is no future issues.
I would try and get a meeting off site if possible, obviously.
If that goes well that you need to repair the cracks, perhaps taking the young man out of his comfort zone - his own office - and explain the relationship that you have built up and the network. Take a notebook with you and write down his issues and concerns, show that you are taking him seriously. Draw a line under those points. Then ask the question - if we can resolve these points can we build on the great long term relationship and plan our workload. After that its up to you to answer his issues and concerns.
I would try and get a meeting off site if possible, obviously.
If that goes well that you need to repair the cracks, perhaps taking the young man out of his comfort zone - his own office - and explain the relationship that you have built up and the network. Take a notebook with you and write down his issues and concerns, show that you are taking him seriously. Draw a line under those points. Then ask the question - if we can resolve these points can we build on the great long term relationship and plan our workload. After that its up to you to answer his issues and concerns.
Edited by Robbo 27 on Tuesday 19th September 15:34
I don't know your exact story but I've known people in a similar contracting position. When later contacted to clear up the mess left by those that replaced them they said fine but my rates are X. When questioned as to why X was a big step up on their previous they explained that you lost your regular customer discount.
designforlife said:
Sounds like he's hooked a mate up. Reckon he would take a personal kick back from you to keep you on board?
As a design engineer I could never freelance, far too volatile, and stuff like this happens.
Sounds like he's found someone else to give him a kick back...! I'd be going over his head if I had contacts more senior.As a design engineer I could never freelance, far too volatile, and stuff like this happens.
If he has hiring and firing of contractors in his responsibilities, then that's the way it goes really.
You're kind of coming at this from a 'I work here' angle, and this bloke has come it it from a 'you're an external contractor'
What does your contract with them say about severing?
There might be jam tomorrow if this guy turns out to cost the company a load of money and time, but unless you've got something on paper that says 'No matter what I do, the contract is good til 2020' you're kind of at their mercy really.
You're kind of coming at this from a 'I work here' angle, and this bloke has come it it from a 'you're an external contractor'
What does your contract with them say about severing?
There might be jam tomorrow if this guy turns out to cost the company a load of money and time, but unless you've got something on paper that says 'No matter what I do, the contract is good til 2020' you're kind of at their mercy really.
Wow...that was quick...slow day at work today, eh, gents?! 😊
Many, many thanks for your thoughts, chaps; very much appreciated.
I'm very lucky that I've been in this industry for over 20 years, more than half of that as a freelancer.
Of course, I understand there are ups and down s, but I've been lucky enough to have carved out an interesting career for myself with plenty of fun and adventure (and money) along the way.
Perhaps I've had enough of low level hustling now that I'm getting older, and, of course, I've never had a day's sick pay or paid holiday...thems the breaks; all fine.
Buy I've never been questioned like this. And certainly not by a know-nothing young pup who's been promoted beyond his ability and experience.
I'd never say that to him of course, but that's the situation.
I'm gonna try and reason with him one more time and hope that he sees the sense that is in front t of him. I'm not optimistic, though, so I'll allude to meeting the boss (who's pay grade is way above this type of trifling matter) and see how that works.
That's the nuclear option, to be honest.
Someone gave some neutral buy mildly questioning feedback to this guy recently...that observation, which was intended to be helpful, was labelled a complaint and used against them.
I might just jack it all in and get a job with Sports Direct or Ryan Air!
Thanks again...keep the thoughts and advice coming....we'll see what happens.
Many, many thanks for your thoughts, chaps; very much appreciated.
I'm very lucky that I've been in this industry for over 20 years, more than half of that as a freelancer.
Of course, I understand there are ups and down s, but I've been lucky enough to have carved out an interesting career for myself with plenty of fun and adventure (and money) along the way.
Perhaps I've had enough of low level hustling now that I'm getting older, and, of course, I've never had a day's sick pay or paid holiday...thems the breaks; all fine.
Buy I've never been questioned like this. And certainly not by a know-nothing young pup who's been promoted beyond his ability and experience.
I'd never say that to him of course, but that's the situation.
I'm gonna try and reason with him one more time and hope that he sees the sense that is in front t of him. I'm not optimistic, though, so I'll allude to meeting the boss (who's pay grade is way above this type of trifling matter) and see how that works.
That's the nuclear option, to be honest.
Someone gave some neutral buy mildly questioning feedback to this guy recently...that observation, which was intended to be helpful, was labelled a complaint and used against them.
I might just jack it all in and get a job with Sports Direct or Ryan Air!
Thanks again...keep the thoughts and advice coming....we'll see what happens.
Wow...that was quick...slow day at work today, eh, gents?! 😊
Many, many thanks for your thoughts, chaps; very much appreciated.
I'm very lucky that I've been in this industry for over 20 years, more than half of that as a freelancer.
Of course, I understand there are ups and down s, but I've been lucky enough to have carved out an interesting career for myself with plenty of fun and adventure (and money) along the way.
Perhaps I've had enough of low level hustling now that I'm getting older, and, of course, I've never had a day's sick pay or paid holiday...thems the breaks; all fine.
Buy I've never been questioned like this. And certainly not by a know-nothing young pup who's been promoted beyond his ability and experience.
I'd never say that to him of course, but that's the situation.
I'm gonna try and reason with him one more time and hope that he sees the sense that is in front t of him. I'm not optimistic, though, so I'll allude to meeting the boss (who's pay grade is way above this type of trifling matter) and see how that works.
That's the nuclear option, to be honest.
Someone gave some neutral buy mildly questioning feedback to this guy recently...that observation, which was intended to be helpful, was labelled a complaint and used against them.
I might just jack it all in and get a job with Sports Direct or Ryan Air!
Thanks again...keep the thoughts and advice coming....we'll see what happens
Many, many thanks for your thoughts, chaps; very much appreciated.
I'm very lucky that I've been in this industry for over 20 years, more than half of that as a freelancer.
Of course, I understand there are ups and down s, but I've been lucky enough to have carved out an interesting career for myself with plenty of fun and adventure (and money) along the way.
Perhaps I've had enough of low level hustling now that I'm getting older, and, of course, I've never had a day's sick pay or paid holiday...thems the breaks; all fine.
Buy I've never been questioned like this. And certainly not by a know-nothing young pup who's been promoted beyond his ability and experience.
I'd never say that to him of course, but that's the situation.
I'm gonna try and reason with him one more time and hope that he sees the sense that is in front t of him. I'm not optimistic, though, so I'll allude to meeting the boss (who's pay grade is way above this type of trifling matter) and see how that works.
That's the nuclear option, to be honest.
Someone gave some neutral buy mildly questioning feedback to this guy recently...that observation, which was intended to be helpful, was labelled a complaint and used against them.
I might just jack it all in and get a job with Sports Direct or Ryan Air!
Thanks again...keep the thoughts and advice coming....we'll see what happens
123Tricky said:
Someone gave some neutral buy mildly questioning feedback to this guy recently...that observation, which was intended to be helpful, was labelled a complaint and used against them.
Ah, right. He's a millennial snowflake & you're from a different generation. Look for other work, you'll never establish a reasonable working relationship with him. You just don't get each other.If your work is valued by those who own the budgets (eg the heads of department in a large firm), then the people 'booking' the contractors will normally be told to not be such dips
ts and to get with supplying the people the business needs.
Unless there is a major cost issue or a legal one, then above happens in normal businesses. Occasionally crappy HR and/or procurement functions try to play gatekeeper, which doesn't help....
I would suggest contacting the boss, perhaps to see if there were issues with your work, hence you no longer being contracted...he/she may have no idea of this. Or they might have given the direction. At least you'd know.
ts and to get with supplying the people the business needs.Unless there is a major cost issue or a legal one, then above happens in normal businesses. Occasionally crappy HR and/or procurement functions try to play gatekeeper, which doesn't help....
I would suggest contacting the boss, perhaps to see if there were issues with your work, hence you no longer being contracted...he/she may have no idea of this. Or they might have given the direction. At least you'd know.
Im not really sure what your complaint is? You're freelance, and yet expect consistent work, because you've always had consistent work. Surely not getting any work - for whatever reason - is a risk of the job and why you're probably paid more than a full time employee would be.
Unless you have a contract with the company with some hours or work written in I dont think you have a leg to stand on.
Unless you have a contract with the company with some hours or work written in I dont think you have a leg to stand on.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff