I think I need a solicitor, but...

[NickM450]

Hi all,

I've started a few threads recently about some issues that I'm having at work, Working Time Directive, potential speeding fine and such. Safe to say the job I've loved for the last 9 years has become a bit of a pain after we've moved to a new depot and new contract

Why I think I need a solicitor, in a nutshell our new contract is 45 hour weekly average over a 17 week reference period. Some weeks you do over, others you do less and the plan is that your average will be 45. My average is on the high side of 49, meaning I've worked in the region of 79 hours over what I was expected to do over the 17 week period.

I had a quiet word with the HR guy today and he said there is nothing in the contract that stipulates what happens to the owed hours and he said they are potentially lost, I've worked them for free.

Now I love my job, I really do but even I won't do it for free! Question is do I need a solicitor, if so is anyone good enough or do I need a specialist? So many questions and I have no idea!

Over to you, the kind PH brains

[anonymous-user]

I am not sure what you mean by "the owed hours". You employer must pay you a rate that results in at least minimum wage for each hour worked.

If you consult a solicitor, see a specialist. Joe High Street will not do. Try Marty Burn at Oxford Employment Law.

[silent ninja]

Check your contract? What does it say about overtime in black and white?

Depends on your industry. I know Finance and Procurement first hand simply expect overtime. It's theft, but you have no choice. It's the culture. Depending on demand/seasonality, you could work 60+ hours a week with zero extra pay.

[anonymous-user]

Calculation of working time and of pay can be complex, so I suggest that you take advice. I don't mean from here!

[citizensm1th]

I take it you are a hgv driver

the company i used to work for tried the same game (massive multinational building supplies company )

45 hours per week contract time off in lieu of overtime payments but still expected you to work overtime at very short/no notice

now maybe 10-15 years ago they could have got away with it due to there being a few drivers around ,not anymore

quit the job and signed up with the lead agency they use to supply ad hoc drivers
now earning 40% extra to my old salary ,paid for every hour i work and no weekends or stupid stock takes

i am working in the same branch area and for the same area manager as i used to and brexit can only make the job market better for drivers

up to you but i would tell them to get fked

[NickM450]

Good guess, yup I'm a HGV driver. Contract unfortunately does not state anything specific about if you go over your hours over the reference period. All it says is that "you will not exceed an average of 48 hours per week in any applicable reference period" which I have. It also says "reviewed on a monthly basis" which of course it hasn't.

I feel a resignation letter coming on, problem is I can see myself there until retirement but if these hours are definitely lost then I'll resign, no doubt. I'm not working for free!

[FocusRS3]

NickM450 said:

Good guess, yup I'm a HGV driver. Contract unfortunately does not state anything specific about if you go over your hours over the reference period. All it says is that "you will not exceed an average of 48 hours per week in any applicable reference period" which I have. It also says "reviewed on a monthly basis" which of course it hasn't.

I feel a resignation letter coming on, problem is I can see myself there until retirement but if these hours are definitely lost then I'll resign, no doubt. I'm not working for free!

I'm not 100% sure you need a solicitor and exactly what you want a solicitor to do for you ?

Chances are if you get legal with them then there will be backlash and you'll want out anyhow ?

Trust me , from experience , sometimes it's easier to just move on and avoid the stress.
I had a nasty one that I won but it takes its toll .

[FocusRS3]

Can I ask what a HGV driver doing 5 days a week contracting get paid and what's the cost of getting an HGV license ?

[trick3000tt]

That clause in your contract is there to comply with the working time directive and your company are breaking the law if they are not complying with it. The 48 hrs does not include break or POA as recorded on your tacho card and toward the end of the reference period ( 17 or 26 weeks usually) they are obliged to give you time off without pay to bring your average hours down to less than 48.

[cossy400]

FocusRS3 said:

Can I ask what a HGV driver doing 5 days a week contracting get paid and what's the cost of getting an HGV license ?

HGV licence is best part of anything from 2 to 3 grand, that's a start to finish thing thou.

Medical-provisional HGV licence-HGV2(class 2 lessons then test)-CPC another test and another added cost-then if your wanting to drive the bendys its HGV1(class 1) which is again lessons and a test.

If you don't pass the driving bits 1st time its going to start to become expensive.

Getting work after you ve passed is a mine field, as you ll have the lot that will educate you and help, then you "could" end up with the take that load "you ll" be ok lot. (regardless what people say these firms still exist)

Or you could drop lucky.

Get your experience and you can then start looking about for a better job.

I do it myself, and have done for the last 10 years.

moneys a minefield to IMO.

I do 60 to 65 hours a week can be away for either all week or I do get home occasionally and I took £37.000 last year, but there will be a job somewhere that you could earn that for les hours and be home every night.

[NickM450]

FocusRS3 said:

I'm not 100% sure you need a solicitor and exactly what you want a solicitor to do for you ?

Chances are if you get legal with them then there will be backlash and you'll want out anyhow ?

Trust me , from experience , sometimes it's easier to just move on and avoid the stress.
I had a nasty one that I won but it takes its toll .

The reason I think I want a solicitor is just to have a look at my contract and hours, I can't see how my company can legally not pay me for 75+ hours that I've worked over my contractual average.

Seems so unfair, problem is though I'm in a cracking position, great basic with potential to double my weekly wage making it £1200 per week, it's obscene for Class 2 work. I've not had that opportunity yet but a few of the lads from different depots have and it will be my turn soon, I hope.

[Du1point8]

NickM450 said:

FocusRS3 said:

I'm not 100% sure you need a solicitor and exactly what you want a solicitor to do for you ?

Chances are if you get legal with them then there will be backlash and you'll want out anyhow ?

Trust me , from experience , sometimes it's easier to just move on and avoid the stress.
I had a nasty one that I won but it takes its toll .

The reason I think I want a solicitor is just to have a look at my contract and hours, I can't see how my company can legally not pay me for 75+ hours that I've worked over my contractual average.

Seems so unfair, problem is though I'm in a cracking position, great basic with potential to double my weekly wage making it £1200 per week, it's obscene for Class 2 work. I've not had that opportunity yet but a few of the lads from different depots have and it will be my turn soon, I hope.

Not to point out the freaking obvious... but are you seriously going to rock the boat on such a cracking position of doubling your wage over a little under 2 weeks of wages? Double your wage for the rest of the time you work there or complain that you dont get a week and a half of wages?

Choose which one and if you want both, I would be prepared to never ever getting that cracking position you mention and being noted as a complainer and potentially losing it all by being managed out.

If you were never going to get the position to double your wage then by all means go for it, but dont bite the hand that feeds you if its going to give you a great package soon.

[Eric Mc]

Is the OP at risk of being prosecuted if he is found to be driving over the legal limits for working hours?

[cossy400]

Eric Mc said:

Is the OP at risk of being prosecuted if he is found to be driving over the legal limits for working hours?

As far as im aware no one's been prosecuted "yet" everyone at my firm is over the average, but we are paid by the hour.

Driving it's a minefield.

Strange one really as we have to effectively run to 2 sets of rules.

Tacho and then WTD.

48 hours a week WTD when you can do 47 hours driving in a 5 day week if you maxed your driving hours.

Then add to that vehicle check times, loading and unloading, fuelling up.

It's never goin to be under 48 hours WTD is it....