Engineering. Escaping from procedures, paperwork, reviews...
Discussion
Mid-way (hopefully) through working life.
I have worked in engineering (in a handful of companies, small and large) since leaving university in late 90s.
I knew I wasn't really cut out for it, but followed the engineering path that I set out on, because that's what you do when you are a male who is good at maths and science and enjoy tinkering.
I have spent far too much of my working time clock-watching.
"good" engineers in my experience (of the modern day) are those who can sit and work through endless minor detail and writing, checking, reviewing(ad nauseum) the most boring of documentation for weeks at a time. Bureaucracy and regulations rule.
Such work suits and attracts people who sit towards the OCD and autistic end of the spectrum.
As somebody who prefers being active, likes to fly by the seat of his pants and feeling a sense of achievement from results rather than just the process (and struggles to maintain focus on things that are of no interest) the whole thing is extremely frustrating.
I do stand out in engineering as a well-rounded individual, someone who can understand things/people quickly and a good communicator (I am able to talk a good game, thankfully). I am approachable and I am good at explaining things and guiding people.
The downside is that I am not the most.organised or structured in my approach.
Myers-briggs suggests ISTP (or ESTP -I'm right in the middle for the introvert/Extrovert. A quiet extrovert or a talkative introvert?) , which is very close to describing me well. I have many of the traits of Adult ADD (if it exists).
I am desperate to find work that interests me and I find satisfying, without the need for sitting at a desk all day every day, other than when I go for meetings, looking through or writing/re-writing reports, work flows, detailed design, procedures etc. etc.
I did consider teaching a few years ago, but the pay would be a big drop. I was also told at the college interview that although I had very good technical knowledge and answered the questions (and debated and gave a good sample lesson) very well, I would probably be frustrated by the bureaucracy and ever-changing government guidance.
Ideas would be welcomed.
I have worked in engineering (in a handful of companies, small and large) since leaving university in late 90s.
I knew I wasn't really cut out for it, but followed the engineering path that I set out on, because that's what you do when you are a male who is good at maths and science and enjoy tinkering.
I have spent far too much of my working time clock-watching.
"good" engineers in my experience (of the modern day) are those who can sit and work through endless minor detail and writing, checking, reviewing(ad nauseum) the most boring of documentation for weeks at a time. Bureaucracy and regulations rule.
Such work suits and attracts people who sit towards the OCD and autistic end of the spectrum.
As somebody who prefers being active, likes to fly by the seat of his pants and feeling a sense of achievement from results rather than just the process (and struggles to maintain focus on things that are of no interest) the whole thing is extremely frustrating.
I do stand out in engineering as a well-rounded individual, someone who can understand things/people quickly and a good communicator (I am able to talk a good game, thankfully). I am approachable and I am good at explaining things and guiding people.
The downside is that I am not the most.organised or structured in my approach.
Myers-briggs suggests ISTP (or ESTP -I'm right in the middle for the introvert/Extrovert. A quiet extrovert or a talkative introvert?) , which is very close to describing me well. I have many of the traits of Adult ADD (if it exists).
I am desperate to find work that interests me and I find satisfying, without the need for sitting at a desk all day every day, other than when I go for meetings, looking through or writing/re-writing reports, work flows, detailed design, procedures etc. etc.
I did consider teaching a few years ago, but the pay would be a big drop. I was also told at the college interview that although I had very good technical knowledge and answered the questions (and debated and gave a good sample lesson) very well, I would probably be frustrated by the bureaucracy and ever-changing government guidance.
Ideas would be welcomed.
Edited by Woodrow Wilson on Monday 18th December 21:28
Are there not less desk-bound engineering roles within your company that you could go for?
I cycled through several placements on the grad scheme where I work, and I always think the development machinists have it good. They interact with design, get to be creative putting together a machining program, get stuck in physically setting the machine and then get to see the whole thing come to fruition.
Some of the production engineering jobs in assembly were also involved being away from your desk a lot, dealing with call outs in the cell; identifying quality issues, fixing jigging, designing tests. It was a fairly high pressure environment.
All jobs where you go from wishing your time away, to wishing you had more time.
You mention teaching, what about education outreach? We’ve got a strong STEM program and have dedicated people that will go out to coordinate & support activities in local schools. That might be a good compromise?
Edit: what about some form of applications engineer? Going out, visiting and interfacing with customers, putting together a solution & then installing? They also seem to do all the trade shows etc.
I cycled through several placements on the grad scheme where I work, and I always think the development machinists have it good. They interact with design, get to be creative putting together a machining program, get stuck in physically setting the machine and then get to see the whole thing come to fruition.
Some of the production engineering jobs in assembly were also involved being away from your desk a lot, dealing with call outs in the cell; identifying quality issues, fixing jigging, designing tests. It was a fairly high pressure environment.
All jobs where you go from wishing your time away, to wishing you had more time.
You mention teaching, what about education outreach? We’ve got a strong STEM program and have dedicated people that will go out to coordinate & support activities in local schools. That might be a good compromise?
Edit: what about some form of applications engineer? Going out, visiting and interfacing with customers, putting together a solution & then installing? They also seem to do all the trade shows etc.
Edited by Ryan_T on Monday 18th December 23:00
Do you find that you achieve something once you’ve finished whatever it was you were designing / working on? Or is it just another box ticked and on to the next job?
I not only design the project I’m working on, but also see it all the way through to completion as the project manager. Although there’s other people involved in the delivery, it’s my responsibility that it get built and works.
I left once and worked for a consultancy where I just did the design, then get it through approval, and then on to the next job. I didn’t see any reward in it so left after 9 months. No projects had any meaning.
I like to feel that I’ve achieved something. It also means that my role isn’t solely design, which id get really bored with.
I not only design the project I’m working on, but also see it all the way through to completion as the project manager. Although there’s other people involved in the delivery, it’s my responsibility that it get built and works.
I left once and worked for a consultancy where I just did the design, then get it through approval, and then on to the next job. I didn’t see any reward in it so left after 9 months. No projects had any meaning.
I like to feel that I’ve achieved something. It also means that my role isn’t solely design, which id get really bored with.
stuthe
said:
said: Wrong company mate.
Join a startup - epic fun and much less paperwork, depending on startup.
You don't sound like a big company engineer. Join a small company doing something you have passion in and you'll be far happier, IMO
Totally this, having started my working life with a small company it was very much seat of the pants stuff, minimal documentation but lots of development and completion of complicated projects with very tight time constraints. There were time when we'd be working long into the evenings and even some weekends but we wanted to because it was exciting, fun, and the camaraderie was good. This company grew but luckily the part I worked for got spun out into another small company, all good for a few more years. But then the buyout happened so working for a much bigger company, lot more procedure, lot more paperwork, and then that company got bought by an even bigger one and I'm now pretty much in the same boat you describe!Join a startup - epic fun and much less paperwork, depending on startup.
You don't sound like a big company engineer. Join a small company doing something you have passion in and you'll be far happier, IMO
I really should strive to get back into a small company but at the moment with a wife and two kids to feed I also need the stability and working until 9pm some evenings probably wouldn't go down so well.
Have you considered agricultural engineering? They always seem to be doing new and innovative stuff, practical solutions, real hands on approach. Best team ever on Scrapyard Challenge were a group of agricultural engineers. I've worked with agricultural engineers who could put something on the moon if asked (or have a lot of fun trying).
Woodrow Wilson said:
I have worked in engineering (in a handful of companies, small and large) since leaving university in late 90s.
I knew I wasn't really cut out for it, but followed the engineering path that I set out on, because that's what you do when you are a male who is good at maths and science and enjoy tinkering.
Different fields of engineering by the sounds of it but after two years as a chemical engineer on a refinery I realized I was never going to be the very best engineer and was terrified of having to follow a defined career path that would involve years of my life in the design office looking at safety valve calcs or pump cavitation. I knew I wasn't really cut out for it, but followed the engineering path that I set out on, because that's what you do when you are a male who is good at maths and science and enjoy tinkering.
But I did realize I had a far more rounded skillset than "career engineers", and loved the every changing supply/logistics side of things. Project management could have been one route to take, but I moved in to the supply/trading side of the industry. Loved pretty much every day at work since then, and for the past 13 years or so.
So perhaps look at other roles around you that support pure engineering roles which will play to your experience, but are more dynamic in nature? And if necessary keep the tinkering as a hobby outside of work if it is limiting your work options?
An ex engineer here. Started off as you -detailed design docs and endless paperwork. Dull,Dull Dull. Had a few years in project engineering. A bit too exciting for me TBH, especially after the first couple of people died, and a falling 2 tonne load missed me by a foot.
Ended up in quality for 10 years. Worked for a Jap company,and really involved in proper process optimisation. This involved teaching as well,which I loved,and some documentation,which I didn't mind doing a little bit of. Best job I ever had, and so many positive results from that. Almost every week the team I was leading would think up different, and sometimes quite radical ideas to improve. And our payback ratio was over 200:1 compared to salary.
When the company closed (made TV's) I worked in first an American, and then a German co. Both were very dull, and paid only lip service to the idea of improvement.
So I work for myself now, fixing things. Pay is crap (ish), but I love fixing things - sometimes I think it's the only thing I have been any good at, and work is a laugh. The last 7 years have flown by, and I love the independence to make financial decisions,technical calls,and dealing with customers. It's great, and I would or could never go back.
So, find a Jap company, or maybe Korean,and go and work for them, or work for yourself.
Ended up in quality for 10 years. Worked for a Jap company,and really involved in proper process optimisation. This involved teaching as well,which I loved,and some documentation,which I didn't mind doing a little bit of. Best job I ever had, and so many positive results from that. Almost every week the team I was leading would think up different, and sometimes quite radical ideas to improve. And our payback ratio was over 200:1 compared to salary.
When the company closed (made TV's) I worked in first an American, and then a German co. Both were very dull, and paid only lip service to the idea of improvement.
So I work for myself now, fixing things. Pay is crap (ish), but I love fixing things - sometimes I think it's the only thing I have been any good at, and work is a laugh. The last 7 years have flown by, and I love the independence to make financial decisions,technical calls,and dealing with customers. It's great, and I would or could never go back.
So, find a Jap company, or maybe Korean,and go and work for them, or work for yourself.
OP.
You sound ideal for our 60,000 strong Engineering company. Unfortunately 80% of our Engineers are graduates in suits whom did Process/ Oil/ Chemical Engineering expecting to be banking investors and then the banking crash came in the late 2000s so that foiled that; so they went into oil and gas and then the oil price crashed in the 2014s so that they then hampered dreams of black gold and now they sit gibberring watching 25% cuts and pay freezes and wonder when they'll get found out as wanabee engineers in the wrong trades by degree!!!
You be prefect in our place and I'd get you details for a job (Woold you want to still work in UK Engineering). I did once suggest to our HR that putting on Radiochemists job adverts that autism would be a positive benfit for all those decay chain calcs, but apparently poistive discrimination is as bad as negative....otherwise I'd agree, a Myers Briggs or Beldin assessment suggesting AHAD would be an almost certain shoe in for our place. We need the wackiness and the drive to say "bks to procedures, here is how to fix the leaking Forties pipeline now (and no, it isn't a new form of crack, it is just new to the new owners from five weeks ago who need to claim it is new to get a dilligence claim in...type mentaility).
You sound ideal for our 60,000 strong Engineering company. Unfortunately 80% of our Engineers are graduates in suits whom did Process/ Oil/ Chemical Engineering expecting to be banking investors and then the banking crash came in the late 2000s so that foiled that; so they went into oil and gas and then the oil price crashed in the 2014s so that they then hampered dreams of black gold and now they sit gibberring watching 25% cuts and pay freezes and wonder when they'll get found out as wanabee engineers in the wrong trades by degree!!!
You be prefect in our place and I'd get you details for a job (Woold you want to still work in UK Engineering). I did once suggest to our HR that putting on Radiochemists job adverts that autism would be a positive benfit for all those decay chain calcs, but apparently poistive discrimination is as bad as negative....otherwise I'd agree, a Myers Briggs or Beldin assessment suggesting AHAD would be an almost certain shoe in for our place. We need the wackiness and the drive to say "b
ks to procedures, here is how to fix the leaking Forties pipeline now (and no, it isn't a new form of crack, it is just new to the new owners from five weeks ago who need to claim it is new to get a dilligence claim in...type mentaility).blank said:
Get into the automotive industry.
Still some processes and procedures to follow but at least you get to do it by playing around with cars.
Don't go for a large OEM though. Go for a small OEM or a "support" company like vehicle or component testing.
Good advice, especially regarding vehicle testing. Avoid part release responsibility like the plague.Still some processes and procedures to follow but at least you get to do it by playing around with cars.
Don't go for a large OEM though. Go for a small OEM or a "support" company like vehicle or component testing.
Based all over, Scotland, Ireland (West), NE. Teeside, NW, Reading, London. Major Eng contractor "Wood"n't you know. Course many liek us in similar areas as we all chase the same Clients and we all move around as the people follow the work that win the contracts, so you've the Jacobs, Motts, Flour, Atkins etc etc all doing the same stuff as us.
Bertrum said:
Procurement for an Engineering/Automotive/F1 firm.
Good with numbers, like talking to people, understands the manufacturing process, not that organised, likes things to be completed, fly by the seat of your pants.
you fit the bill perfectly
Was going to say the same! That or 'commercial' (sat on the other side of the table).Good with numbers, like talking to people, understands the manufacturing process, not that organised, likes things to be completed, fly by the seat of your pants.
you fit the bill perfectly
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