'Fussy' job application processes
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree. It never really seems to be a level playing field between the applicant and any potential employer. I've racked up at least 20 years experience in administrative roles, with I.T qualifications running out my ears.It's really irksome to receive application rejections from employers for jobs that you know you could do, but you're just not given the chance in spite of spending ages filling in application forms and making statements to "show this", "prove that" and "demonstrate" the other. "As a child did you pull the wings off flies?" "No, I blew up frogs!". I cynically suspect that this is just to keep HR in a job. I feel like saying to them, "Never mind the supporting statements. If you want to see what I'm capable of, just start me first thing on Monday morning!"
Recently, I've received some rejection e-mails which I think leave a lot to be desired. I applied for an admin job which involved use of MS Office, the telephone and creating and e-mailing PDF files. No problem there. I can do that. Then came a reply, "We regret we cannot process your CV". Believe me, I was sorely tempted to reply, "Your reply is lazy, perfunctory and unprofessional given that the job duties could well be performed by a trained chimp".
Another rejection for an admin job. "There is plenty in your CV but we would prefer someone who has more experience in the private sector, which is what we are".
Well then, why didn't you tell me that in your job advertisement? Yes, there IS plenty in my CV, including a paragraph under "Additional Information", which states "I am capable of working on my own initiative and can quickly adapt to any working environment" So that employer can just take it as read that I care not one iota WHAT sector it's in. I'm prepared to work in any number of sectors as long as it brings in a steady paycheque.
Of late, I've come across a number of employers who state "Second interview in selection process". I dismiss that as CRAP! I must admit I haven't heard that for a number of years now. I used to hear that when applying for jobs as far back as 1981. But it's nonsense. I mean, why would any employer want to have a second interview for a post, for instance has part-time temporary hours? I've even heard that if you're lucky enough to get an interview, an employer can make up their minds within the first 45 seconds of an interview.
Edited by Langweilig on Friday 23 February 13:34
Langweilig said:
I agree. It never really seems to be a level playing field between the applicant and any potential employer. I've racked up at least 20 years experience in administrative roles, with I.T qualifications running out my ears.
It's really irksome to receive application rejections from employers for jobs that you know you could do, but you're just not given the chance in spite of spending ages filling in application forms and making statements to "show this", "prove that" and "demonstrate" the other. "As a child did you pull the wings off flies?" "No, I blew up frogs!". I cynically suspect that this is just to keep HR in a job. I feel like saying to them, "Never mind the supporting statements. If you want to see what I'm capable of, just start me first thing on Monday morning!"
Recently, I've received some rejection e-mails which I think leave a lot to be desired. I applied for an admin job which involved use of MS Office, the telephone and creating and e-mailing PDF files. No problem there. I can do that. Then came a reply, "We regret we cannot process your CV". Believe me, I was sorely tempted to reply, "Your reply is lazy, perfunctory and unprofessional given that the job duties could well be performed by a trained chimp".
Another rejection for an admin job. "There is plenty in your CV but we would prefer someone who has more experience in the private sector, which is what we are".
Well then, why didn't you tell me that in your job advertisement? Yes, there IS plenty in my CV, including a paragraph under "Additional Information", which states "I am capable of working on my own initiative and can quickly adapt to any working environment" So that employer can just take it as read that I care not one iota WHAT sector it's in. I'm prepared to work in any number of sectors as long as it brings in a steady paycheque.
Of late, I've come across a number of employers who state "Second interview in selection process". I dismiss that as CRAP! I must admit I haven't heard that for a number of years now. I used to hear that when applying for jobs as far back as 1981. But it's nonsense. I mean, why would any employer want to have a second interview for a post, for instance has part-time temporary hours. I've even heard that if you're lucky enough to get an interview, an employer can make up their minds within the first 45 seconds of an interview.
Every single word that you have said resonates with meIt's really irksome to receive application rejections from employers for jobs that you know you could do, but you're just not given the chance in spite of spending ages filling in application forms and making statements to "show this", "prove that" and "demonstrate" the other. "As a child did you pull the wings off flies?" "No, I blew up frogs!". I cynically suspect that this is just to keep HR in a job. I feel like saying to them, "Never mind the supporting statements. If you want to see what I'm capable of, just start me first thing on Monday morning!"
Recently, I've received some rejection e-mails which I think leave a lot to be desired. I applied for an admin job which involved use of MS Office, the telephone and creating and e-mailing PDF files. No problem there. I can do that. Then came a reply, "We regret we cannot process your CV". Believe me, I was sorely tempted to reply, "Your reply is lazy, perfunctory and unprofessional given that the job duties could well be performed by a trained chimp".
Another rejection for an admin job. "There is plenty in your CV but we would prefer someone who has more experience in the private sector, which is what we are".
Well then, why didn't you tell me that in your job advertisement? Yes, there IS plenty in my CV, including a paragraph under "Additional Information", which states "I am capable of working on my own initiative and can quickly adapt to any working environment" So that employer can just take it as read that I care not one iota WHAT sector it's in. I'm prepared to work in any number of sectors as long as it brings in a steady paycheque.
Of late, I've come across a number of employers who state "Second interview in selection process". I dismiss that as CRAP! I must admit I haven't heard that for a number of years now. I used to hear that when applying for jobs as far back as 1981. But it's nonsense. I mean, why would any employer want to have a second interview for a post, for instance has part-time temporary hours. I've even heard that if you're lucky enough to get an interview, an employer can make up their minds within the first 45 seconds of an interview.
SystemParanoia said:
Langweilig said:
I agree. It never really seems to be a level playing field between the applicant and any potential employer. I've racked up at least 20 years experience in administrative roles, with I.T qualifications running out my ears.
It's really irksome to receive application rejections from employers for jobs that you know you could do, but you're just not given the chance in spite of spending ages filling in application forms and making statements to "show this", "prove that" and "demonstrate" the other. "As a child did you pull the wings off flies?" "No, I blew up frogs!". I cynically suspect that this is just to keep HR in a job. I feel like saying to them, "Never mind the supporting statements. If you want to see what I'm capable of, just start me first thing on Monday morning!"
Recently, I've received some rejection e-mails which I think leave a lot to be desired. I applied for an admin job which involved use of MS Office, the telephone and creating and e-mailing PDF files. No problem there. I can do that. Then came a reply, "We regret we cannot process your CV". Believe me, I was sorely tempted to reply, "Your reply is lazy, perfunctory and unprofessional given that the job duties could well be performed by a trained chimp".
Another rejection for an admin job. "There is plenty in your CV but we would prefer someone who has more experience in the private sector, which is what we are".
Well then, why didn't you tell me that in your job advertisement? Yes, there IS plenty in my CV, including a paragraph under "Additional Information", which states "I am capable of working on my own initiative and can quickly adapt to any working environment" So that employer can just take it as read that I care not one iota WHAT sector it's in. I'm prepared to work in any number of sectors as long as it brings in a steady paycheque.
Of late, I've come across a number of employers who state "Second interview in selection process". I dismiss that as CRAP! I must admit I haven't heard that for a number of years now. I used to hear that when applying for jobs as far back as 1981. But it's nonsense. I mean, why would any employer want to have a second interview for a post, for instance has part-time temporary hours. I've even heard that if you're lucky enough to get an interview, an employer can make up their minds within the first 45 seconds of an interview.
Every single word that you have said resonates with meIt's really irksome to receive application rejections from employers for jobs that you know you could do, but you're just not given the chance in spite of spending ages filling in application forms and making statements to "show this", "prove that" and "demonstrate" the other. "As a child did you pull the wings off flies?" "No, I blew up frogs!". I cynically suspect that this is just to keep HR in a job. I feel like saying to them, "Never mind the supporting statements. If you want to see what I'm capable of, just start me first thing on Monday morning!"
Recently, I've received some rejection e-mails which I think leave a lot to be desired. I applied for an admin job which involved use of MS Office, the telephone and creating and e-mailing PDF files. No problem there. I can do that. Then came a reply, "We regret we cannot process your CV". Believe me, I was sorely tempted to reply, "Your reply is lazy, perfunctory and unprofessional given that the job duties could well be performed by a trained chimp".
Another rejection for an admin job. "There is plenty in your CV but we would prefer someone who has more experience in the private sector, which is what we are".
Well then, why didn't you tell me that in your job advertisement? Yes, there IS plenty in my CV, including a paragraph under "Additional Information", which states "I am capable of working on my own initiative and can quickly adapt to any working environment" So that employer can just take it as read that I care not one iota WHAT sector it's in. I'm prepared to work in any number of sectors as long as it brings in a steady paycheque.
Of late, I've come across a number of employers who state "Second interview in selection process". I dismiss that as CRAP! I must admit I haven't heard that for a number of years now. I used to hear that when applying for jobs as far back as 1981. But it's nonsense. I mean, why would any employer want to have a second interview for a post, for instance has part-time temporary hours. I've even heard that if you're lucky enough to get an interview, an employer can make up their minds within the first 45 seconds of an interview.
Networking is the best way to at least get in front of someone, but I appreciate it is often difficult if changing sectors.
Sorry to use the word networking, I know it sounds a bit w
ky management speak, but it beats saying"It's not what you know....." etc
Complicated job applications, it can be a way of filtering out the numpties, or the potentially lazy, maybe looks at OP.
There are many ways of doing that filter, e.g. everyone of ours asks for a CV to be submitted in .pdf, surprising how many just attach a Word file, straight in the bin, can't follow a simple instruction / lack of attention to detail. Oops.
Personally, some sympathy as online forms are a complete pain for the candidate though, especially if badly designed, any serious application should be tailored to the job advertised, especially the personal statement part. As seen in this thread just copying and pasting from a generic CV isn't a technique to give best chance of making the short list for interview.
There are many ways of doing that filter, e.g. everyone of ours asks for a CV to be submitted in .pdf, surprising how many just attach a Word file, straight in the bin, can't follow a simple instruction / lack of attention to detail. Oops.
Personally, some sympathy as online forms are a complete pain for the candidate though, especially if badly designed, any serious application should be tailored to the job advertised, especially the personal statement part. As seen in this thread just copying and pasting from a generic CV isn't a technique to give best chance of making the short list for interview.
FiF said:
Complicated job applications, it can be a way of filtering out the numpties
That arguably works in both directions! If a company invents some complex bureaucracy around just getting my CV details to them, then it tells me a lot about the culture within that organisation and I'd probably avoid them unless the job was amazing.One thing that does grate me more than the online tests and multiple form filling...is the lack of response.
We get it, you want to weed out those not meeting the "cut"...just at least have the common decency to acknowledge candidates as they go through the various stages...
I think the longest I got spun along was 3 months for a Systems Architect role...
It was a step up for me and a leap of faith for them, after multiple interviews over multiple months they just dragged it out and then eventually just completely went silent.
Thankfully i'd carried on interviewing elsewhere and found something else, but such a waste of time overall and paints the company, their people and their process's in a pretty poor light.
And breathhhhhhhhh
We get it, you want to weed out those not meeting the "cut"...just at least have the common decency to acknowledge candidates as they go through the various stages...
I think the longest I got spun along was 3 months for a Systems Architect role...
It was a step up for me and a leap of faith for them, after multiple interviews over multiple months they just dragged it out and then eventually just completely went silent.
Thankfully i'd carried on interviewing elsewhere and found something else, but such a waste of time overall and paints the company, their people and their process's in a pretty poor light.
And breathhhhhhhhh
wombleh said:
FiF said:
Complicated job applications, it can be a way of filtering out the numpties
That arguably works in both directions! If a company invents some complex bureaucracy around just getting my CV details to them, then it tells me a lot about the culture within that organisation and I'd probably avoid them unless the job was amazing.
Aye, I feel your pain...
I had a corker a few months back. Applied for a job via linkedin got a nice letter in return asking for a time to arrange a chat on the telephone. No problem with that so went back with some times, trying to be a flexible as possible. Answer comes back, oh please e-mail mr XYZ as he's dealing with this, OK, no problem. Do as requested (as per your colleague's attached e-mail.. blah, blah, blah) only to be met with..... could you please e-mail me your CV.
WTF???? Ok, no problem - dear XYZ, as requested please find CV attached. Blah, blah, blah..... nothing. Absofkinglutely nothing, no acknowledgement no nothing. What a waste of everyone's fking time just because some gimps can't get their act together. Shame really as the company & job sounded right up my street.
I had a corker a few months back. Applied for a job via linkedin got a nice letter in return asking for a time to arrange a chat on the telephone. No problem with that so went back with some times, trying to be a flexible as possible. Answer comes back, oh please e-mail mr XYZ as he's dealing with this, OK, no problem. Do as requested (as per your colleague's attached e-mail.. blah, blah, blah) only to be met with..... could you please e-mail me your CV.
WTF???? Ok, no problem - dear XYZ, as requested please find CV attached. Blah, blah, blah..... nothing. Absof
kinglutely nothing, no acknowledgement no nothing. What a waste of everyone's fking time just because some gimps can't get their act together. Shame really as the company & job sounded right up my street.You can usually use LinkedIn to pre-fill a lot of application forms.
It gets worse once you finally get an interview:
"Can you give me an example of a time when you've overcome adversity using friendship and song? We'd like you to express your answer using the medium of interpretive dance..."
Having said that I had an interview yesterday where they actually asked me some job related questions, I even managed to answer some of them!
It gets worse once you finally get an interview:
"Can you give me an example of a time when you've overcome adversity using friendship and song? We'd like you to express your answer using the medium of interpretive dance..."
Having said that I had an interview yesterday where they actually asked me some job related questions, I even managed to answer some of them!
Edited by DJFish on Saturday 24th February 07:18
Our personnel people can be useless. About two years ago they recruited a new truck driver. He reported to me at 7:30 on the Monday:
“Morning, I’m Jimmy, I’ll show you round, talk you through it and show you how our paperwork works. Is there anything you want to know before we start?”
“Will I have to drive?”
“As a truck driver? Yes, you will.”
“Oh, I won’t do that. Will I have to clock in?”
“Wait, you applied for a job as a driver but you won’t drive?”
“I hoped you could find me something else to do!”
“Just go home.”
“Morning, I’m Jimmy, I’ll show you round, talk you through it and show you how our paperwork works. Is there anything you want to know before we start?”
“Will I have to drive?”
“As a truck driver? Yes, you will.”
“Oh, I won’t do that. Will I have to clock in?”
“Wait, you applied for a job as a driver but you won’t drive?”
“I hoped you could find me something else to do!”
“Just go home.”
irocfan said:
DJFish said:
"Can you give me an example of a time when you've overcome adversity using friendship and song? We'd like you to express your answer using the medium of interpretive dance..."
Me - thanks for your time <gets up and leaves>FiF said:
irocfan said:
DJFish said:
"Can you give me an example of a time when you've overcome adversity using friendship and song? We'd like you to express your answer using the medium of interpretive dance..."
Me - thanks for your time <gets up and leaves>t "Tell me about a time you disagreed with X"... Sure let me make up a situation on the spot or spout out some generic bullst to keep you nodding along.cat with a hat said:
FiF said:
irocfan said:
DJFish said:
"Can you give me an example of a time when you've overcome adversity using friendship and song? We'd like you to express your answer using the medium of interpretive dance..."
Me - thanks for your time <gets up and leaves>t "Tell me about a time you disagreed with X"... Sure let me make up a situation on the spot or spout out some generic bullst to keep you nodding along.t question and just spouts some generic bullst bingo. Obviously I'm talking about genuine sensible questions and not comedic scenarios of your invention.The point I'm making is that too many candidates don't try to understand the selection process, too many on the other side don't understand their role properly. However done correctly you get a good chance of finding the best candidate for the role who really wants to work in that area, as opposed to some chancer who just fancies something, that's ignoring the ones who have to make x application's because of some benefits rule. Fortunately don't deal with the latter.
But the keeping nodding along, as you put it, could be simply being polite whilst thinking, that's enough rope, on your bike knobhead.
My Mrs used to work in HR and now does a bit of consulting. Employers using application forms or software is a win for everyone.
You don't run the risk of sending in a garbage CV and they get all the data they need.
Although back to the OP question, I have found some online application systems really crap i.e. Home Officer, HMRC and Civil service.....
You don't run the risk of sending in a garbage CV and they get all the data they need.
Although back to the OP question, I have found some online application systems really crap i.e. Home Officer, HMRC and Civil service.....
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