'Fussy' job application processes
Discussion
bomb said:
I disagree with your comments above.
Having been directly involved in the process of recruiting highly specialist personnel, we did not create an interview process to select desperate idiots.
We did, in fact, have a streamlined process that filtered through the candidates, until we arrived at a shortlist of people who we then invited for interview. The people selected came from all over the globe, and yes, they had spent some time filling in the on line questionnaire ( which was a drop down box style, to allow the electronic filter system to work) Then they submitted their CV's that documented their work history etc, so we could focus on how they matched up with our own requirements.
The system was extremely efficient and successful. We employed a lot of very good people. Our rate of job offers vs people we interviewed face to face, (some via skype due to their location), was very high indeed.
The people we interviewed were far from idiots, and I think your own perception of this is a somewhat naive one.
We employed a mixture of disciplines, some being junior staff, but many being at the highest level. Some were already in work, and some were not employed when we interviewed them.
Thats my experience from the employers side of things.
Well done there. Pat yourself on the back. If you have many people at the highest level, then you have a top heavy management. Having been directly involved in the process of recruiting highly specialist personnel, we did not create an interview process to select desperate idiots.
We did, in fact, have a streamlined process that filtered through the candidates, until we arrived at a shortlist of people who we then invited for interview. The people selected came from all over the globe, and yes, they had spent some time filling in the on line questionnaire ( which was a drop down box style, to allow the electronic filter system to work) Then they submitted their CV's that documented their work history etc, so we could focus on how they matched up with our own requirements.
The system was extremely efficient and successful. We employed a lot of very good people. Our rate of job offers vs people we interviewed face to face, (some via skype due to their location), was very high indeed.
The people we interviewed were far from idiots, and I think your own perception of this is a somewhat naive one.
We employed a mixture of disciplines, some being junior staff, but many being at the highest level. Some were already in work, and some were not employed when we interviewed them.
Thats my experience from the employers side of things.
I'd love a job at your place if all you have to do is answer multiple choice questions during the course of an average day.
I got an A at A Level General Studies. When do I start?
Thanks for your condescending response. You don't understand what role I took in the organisation, nor do you know what business or industry I worked in. Hence, you appear to have assumed that we have hired a load of 'managers' and have a top heavy company.
This is not the case, and actually we hired sufficient staff to fill each position required to operate, maintain and provide a service to our clients on a 24/7 basis, whilst meeting all the requirements of the Law ( both UK and International standards).
My own job did not require me to 'answer multiple choice questions during the course of an average day'. Of course it didn't, and I had a very satisfying and rewarding job, which was challenging and sometimes frustrating.
Well done to you, in gaining your A level in general studies. Unfortunately that specific qualification is not one that is required for any of the roles within the organisation, ( I worked for), and hence I would be unable to offer you any employment. Thanks for the offer of your services though !
This is not the case, and actually we hired sufficient staff to fill each position required to operate, maintain and provide a service to our clients on a 24/7 basis, whilst meeting all the requirements of the Law ( both UK and International standards).
My own job did not require me to 'answer multiple choice questions during the course of an average day'. Of course it didn't, and I had a very satisfying and rewarding job, which was challenging and sometimes frustrating.
Well done to you, in gaining your A level in general studies. Unfortunately that specific qualification is not one that is required for any of the roles within the organisation, ( I worked for), and hence I would be unable to offer you any employment. Thanks for the offer of your services though !
Edited by bomb on Friday 2nd March 09:59
This thread is funny and sad in equal measures, clearly there are people who just don't understand the recruitment process from the employer side. Clearly it's quite possible, and advisable to set up some sort of screening process, and suitable online forms are one way to do it, add on the ability to attach a CV easily and you are there. Some folks appear to want to just have to do little more than feeding in a CV and let the employer sift through possibly hundreds of them, and then get rude and defensive if asked to make a bit more effort.
Again some employers, e.g. Civil Service, make it very complicated, too complicated possibly, but these are for potentially vital positions in the long term. I still don't understand the mentality of if you really want to work for an organisation or in that field why sack it off at the first hurdle, e.g. if you don't realise Civil Service is going to be bureaucratic then not on this planet. Note I'm not defending CS recruitment process just saying it has to be tailored to the organisation and position.
Again some employers, e.g. Civil Service, make it very complicated, too complicated possibly, but these are for potentially vital positions in the long term. I still don't understand the mentality of if you really want to work for an organisation or in that field why sack it off at the first hurdle, e.g. if you don't realise Civil Service is going to be bureaucratic then not on this planet. Note I'm not defending CS recruitment process just saying it has to be tailored to the organisation and position.
FiF said:
This thread is funny and sad in equal measures, clearly there are people who just don't understand the recruitment process from the employer side. Clearly it's quite possible, and advisable to set up some sort of screening process, and suitable online forms are one way to do it, add on the ability to attach a CV easily and you are there. Some folks appear to want to just have to do little more than feeding in a CV and let the employer sift through possibly hundreds of them, and then get rude and defensive if asked to make a bit more effort.
Again some employers, e.g. Civil Service, make it very complicated, too complicated possibly, but these are for potentially vital positions in the long term. I still don't understand the mentality of if you really want to work for an organisation or in that field why sack it off at the first hurdle, e.g. if you don't realise Civil Service is going to be bureaucratic then not on this planet. Note I'm not defending CS recruitment process just saying it has to be tailored to the organisation and position.
Exactly this - recruitment has to be performed for the particular role. You just drop a CV in to a shop for the manager to look at if you want a part time till job, or you have to justify your ability to do a role through a number of stages because the role is vital to the financial success of a major business of which many peoples jobs and livelihoods rely on. Again some employers, e.g. Civil Service, make it very complicated, too complicated possibly, but these are for potentially vital positions in the long term. I still don't understand the mentality of if you really want to work for an organisation or in that field why sack it off at the first hurdle, e.g. if you don't realise Civil Service is going to be bureaucratic then not on this planet. Note I'm not defending CS recruitment process just saying it has to be tailored to the organisation and position.
If you really want the job, jump through the hoops to get there. Life is generally a test from start to finish.
Glad to see there are a few people who support my own thoughts.
We only made a job offer to an individual who had :-
The correct certificates that the role demanded,
Had sufficient experience and skills to suit the job,
Could show that he/she was willing to fulfill the whole job description,
Had an enthusiasm for the job,
......to mention but a few items.
As mentioned above, the recruitment process was specifically tailored for each role, so just firing off your CV in the hope that you'll be hired, would not work in the industry I was working in.
Life certainly is a test from start to finish !
We only made a job offer to an individual who had :-
The correct certificates that the role demanded,
Had sufficient experience and skills to suit the job,
Could show that he/she was willing to fulfill the whole job description,
Had an enthusiasm for the job,
......to mention but a few items.
As mentioned above, the recruitment process was specifically tailored for each role, so just firing off your CV in the hope that you'll be hired, would not work in the industry I was working in.
Life certainly is a test from start to finish !
I have a part time spot in my team available and took a CV of an applicant, bypassing our complex processes
Spoke to the guy yesterday about it and asked him about our products
He couldn't answer and said that was 'a bit of a curve-ball question'
Roll on the complex application process if it stops me wasting 20 mins like that again
Spoke to the guy yesterday about it and asked him about our products
He couldn't answer and said that was 'a bit of a curve-ball question'
Roll on the complex application process if it stops me wasting 20 mins like that again
jakesmith said:
I have a part time spot in my team available and took a CV of an applicant, bypassing our complex processes
Spoke to the guy yesterday about it and asked him about our products
He couldn't answer and said that was 'a bit of a curve-ball question'
Roll on the complex application process if it stops me wasting 20 mins like that again
There's this thing called the Internet and on the Internet there's a thing called a search engine. It could be called Google but there are others. What your would-be applicant should've done is Google your company and if you have a website, carry out some research about your company.Spoke to the guy yesterday about it and asked him about our products
He couldn't answer and said that was 'a bit of a curve-ball question'
Roll on the complex application process if it stops me wasting 20 mins like that again
You asked the applicant about your products. I find when I attend an interview, I'm asked "What do you know about the company?" "I found out a lot about your company through your website. Which I must say is very informative and easily-navigated". Make notes about the company from their site and use them in an interview. I can't believe your applicant didn't know that.
jakesmith said:
I have a part time spot in my team available and took a CV of an applicant, bypassing our complex processes
Spoke to the guy yesterday about it and asked him about our products
He couldn't answer and said that was 'a bit of a curve-ball question'
Roll on the complex application process if it stops me wasting 20 mins like that again
Spoke to the guy yesterday about it and asked him about our products
He couldn't answer and said that was 'a bit of a curve-ball question'
Roll on the complex application process if it stops me wasting 20 mins like that again
Well that's funny. Round up 20 managers in any big company, and I bet 18 of them couldn't tell you the company vision, what they stand for, what their business model is or what their operating model is (i.e. how they are configured to make money), or what the current company challenges are.
Management operate in silos, operate in a political manner quite often (i.e. the personal career rather than with the best intentions of the business at heart), hiding as much as they can.
I can find you as many clueless managers in an organisation as you find clueless applicants. You attract what you put out. Managers often want high performing, 5* candidates when they themselves are mediocre.
Culture tells you a heck of a lot about a company. I ask questions about the team culture and that tells me a lot more than the generic questions thrown at me.
Hiring managers tend to recruit people like them. "If i can picture myself having a beer with him, he must be alright..." There is nothing worse than a homogeneous team - a stale team. Managers have blinkers on and often don't serve the interests of the company.
On a side note, I don't apply for a role in which I have 100% of the experience needed, 100% of the skills needed and 5% more salary. Are you in cuckoo land? I apply for stuff that I think I can feasibly do (stretch), where I will learn and it will stretch my abilities and challenge me in a healthy way. And I'm not moving role for a 5% increase - more like 30-40%% unless the job is really exciting and money becomes less relevant. If I can do your job today because I'm already doing it, why would I apply for your job? A new employer has to be willing to invest in a new employee. Companies that don't invest in learning and development are the ones that slowly die of mediocre talent.
Management operate in silos, operate in a political manner quite often (i.e. the personal career rather than with the best intentions of the business at heart), hiding as much as they can.
I can find you as many clueless managers in an organisation as you find clueless applicants. You attract what you put out. Managers often want high performing, 5* candidates when they themselves are mediocre.
Culture tells you a heck of a lot about a company. I ask questions about the team culture and that tells me a lot more than the generic questions thrown at me.
Hiring managers tend to recruit people like them. "If i can picture myself having a beer with him, he must be alright..." There is nothing worse than a homogeneous team - a stale team. Managers have blinkers on and often don't serve the interests of the company.
On a side note, I don't apply for a role in which I have 100% of the experience needed, 100% of the skills needed and 5% more salary. Are you in cuckoo land? I apply for stuff that I think I can feasibly do (stretch), where I will learn and it will stretch my abilities and challenge me in a healthy way. And I'm not moving role for a 5% increase - more like 30-40%% unless the job is really exciting and money becomes less relevant. If I can do your job today because I'm already doing it, why would I apply for your job? A new employer has to be willing to invest in a new employee. Companies that don't invest in learning and development are the ones that slowly die of mediocre talent.
Edited by silent ninja on Sunday 4th March 19:13
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