IT Contracting
Discussion
I have contracted for the last 12 years and have just taken on a permie role to broaden my skills to what's being done at this company.
Have a good think about what else is important about your job.
As a permie
- You can ask for training (and they pay).
- You get paid when you're ill.
- You get paid holidays
- They pay your pension.
- The company uses new technology, you get training on the job.
- The company probably pays for a christmas do.
As a contractor.
- The tax man is actively working towards limiting your income.
- Depending on whether you use a ltd co or an umbrella, You may have to buy insurances, pay corporation tax, pay accountancy fees, submit accounts/returns, etc.
- you have to actively avoid becoming 'an employee' (IR35), often by jumping between contracts a lot.
- Unless you're way, way better than the people you are working with, you have to graft. 8am in, stay till 6pm. Nobody likes a contractor taking the p*ss with hours
- You can't go to christmas dos and stuff (also IR35)
- You don't get any training - you need to do that yourself. Bedroom training doesn't really stand up in interview.
- You will be the first out when the project or funding comes to an end.
- your skillset will remain static as you aren't doing anything new, or any training.
- If your wife doesn't work, you might be able to make life more tax efficient for your income.
You can make contracting work, but there is a lot more to consider than just the money, and unless you have a lot of experience behind you, the pickings are slim and you get donkey work.
S9JTO said:
How do you know when it's time to make the jump from perm to contractor?
I have been in the industry for just over 3 years now and have worked with various contractors over that time.
Unless you've been working with a technology which is extremely scarce and is in particular demand, this is not enough experience. You'll be spotted as a junior and given boring, spade work to do, leaving more interesting work for the permies. Sorry, that's just the way it is.I have been in the industry for just over 3 years now and have worked with various contractors over that time.
S9JTO said:
....my field (DevOps), ....
Devops is not really a field. At best it talks of what you've been doing, at worst, it's a marketing buzzword. It doesn't tell me whether you understand infrastucture, software development, automation, distributed systems, etc. Try to be more specific about what you can do, and more importantly what you like doing.S9JTO said:
I have worked out that a mid-level DevOps contract is £400-£500 where I live, using https://www.sjdaccountancy.com/contractor_calculat... says I'd be taking home £6619 - £8519 per month respectively or anywhere in between which I can safely say is more than I'm earning now, even with my generous pension/holidays package.
Try not to think about how much you *can earn* and instead think about how much you need to live on. To 'take home' 6-8k a month, you will need to be invoicing double that. Secondly, where does that 50% go ? The tax man. That's a complete waste of your effort.Have a good think about what else is important about your job.
As a permie
- You can ask for training (and they pay).
- You get paid when you're ill.
- You get paid holidays
- They pay your pension.
- The company uses new technology, you get training on the job.
- The company probably pays for a christmas do.
As a contractor.
- The tax man is actively working towards limiting your income.
- Depending on whether you use a ltd co or an umbrella, You may have to buy insurances, pay corporation tax, pay accountancy fees, submit accounts/returns, etc.
- you have to actively avoid becoming 'an employee' (IR35), often by jumping between contracts a lot.
- Unless you're way, way better than the people you are working with, you have to graft. 8am in, stay till 6pm. Nobody likes a contractor taking the p*ss with hours
- You can't go to christmas dos and stuff (also IR35)
- You don't get any training - you need to do that yourself. Bedroom training doesn't really stand up in interview.
- You will be the first out when the project or funding comes to an end.
- your skillset will remain static as you aren't doing anything new, or any training.
- If your wife doesn't work, you might be able to make life more tax efficient for your income.
You can make contracting work, but there is a lot more to consider than just the money, and unless you have a lot of experience behind you, the pickings are slim and you get donkey work.
I feel the writing is on the wall for 'contracting' as I've known it for 20 years. Lots of uncertainty in the market, twitchy clients, HMRC determined to break the back of it as a way of working ... a newbie (because you are; 3 years experience isn't going to differentiate you unless it's properly niche) going into it now will be on the back foot from the beginning.
Whether it works for you, I guess you'll find out
Whether it works for you, I guess you'll find out
bigandclever said:
I feel the writing is on the wall for 'contracting' as I've known it for 20 years. Lots of uncertainty in the market, twitchy clients, HMRC determined to break the back of it as a way of working ... a newbie (because you are; 3 years experience isn't going to differentiate you unless it's properly niche) going into it now will be on the back foot from the beginning.
Whether it works for you, I guess you'll find out
I'm not a contractor, I'm a boutique IT consultancy.Whether it works for you, I guess you'll find out
I've just passed 6 years of being a Ltd company contractor.
I was a consultant for 14 years before that, and effectively my day job hasn't changed much as I used to head out on client site for months on end when I was a permie.
I recently ended up having 19 weeks off - finished up a contract on 10th Oct so decided to take the rest of the year off.
Things were a bit slow in starting this year as well so it took a wee bit longer for me to get my next contract.
I had salary cover for 9 months at full whack sitting in the business when I decided to take the time off.
First few years went 6 months contract (3mths extended) straight into a 2 year one, straight into another 2 year one and then 5 week break before another year one so I have been pretty lucky with the frequency and length of my contracts.
I am a Performance Tester specialising with LoadRunner so a reasonably niche skillset.
I used to head up the team when I was a permie and hated getting dragged into resourcing and line management duties - contracting allows me to be free of all that.
My wife is a nursery teacher which is criminally underpaid so the tax position works well for us, although this last year has seen us having to pay around £7k in personal tax on dividends that we never used to so it's not quite as profitable as it used to be (and they are moving the goalposts again this April).
I suspect I have another 2 years of this before the whole IR35 in the Private Sector shakes things up considerably. I do have something in the pipeline which may result in me going back to permie but the salary will need to be worth it for me to jump back.
I have a company pension that I pay into semi-regularly (have been focussing on mortgage reduction instead) and need to have both Professional Indemnity and Public Liability insurance.
To answer your question, I needed to feel comfortable in my own ability and be able to stand on my own 2 feet before I would make the jump. I could probably have done it a good few years earlier but my daughter was younger and I didn't want to be working away from home for extended periods.
I was a consultant for 14 years before that, and effectively my day job hasn't changed much as I used to head out on client site for months on end when I was a permie.
I recently ended up having 19 weeks off - finished up a contract on 10th Oct so decided to take the rest of the year off.
Things were a bit slow in starting this year as well so it took a wee bit longer for me to get my next contract.
I had salary cover for 9 months at full whack sitting in the business when I decided to take the time off.
First few years went 6 months contract (3mths extended) straight into a 2 year one, straight into another 2 year one and then 5 week break before another year one so I have been pretty lucky with the frequency and length of my contracts.
I am a Performance Tester specialising with LoadRunner so a reasonably niche skillset.
I used to head up the team when I was a permie and hated getting dragged into resourcing and line management duties - contracting allows me to be free of all that.
My wife is a nursery teacher which is criminally underpaid so the tax position works well for us, although this last year has seen us having to pay around £7k in personal tax on dividends that we never used to so it's not quite as profitable as it used to be (and they are moving the goalposts again this April).
I suspect I have another 2 years of this before the whole IR35 in the Private Sector shakes things up considerably. I do have something in the pipeline which may result in me going back to permie but the salary will need to be worth it for me to jump back.
I have a company pension that I pay into semi-regularly (have been focussing on mortgage reduction instead) and need to have both Professional Indemnity and Public Liability insurance.
To answer your question, I needed to feel comfortable in my own ability and be able to stand on my own 2 feet before I would make the jump. I could probably have done it a good few years earlier but my daughter was younger and I didn't want to be working away from home for extended periods.
98elise said:
Wilmslowboy said:
dave_s13 said:
Silly question but as an it contractor what do you actually create that then generates enough cash to pay you these high wages?
Give us some real life examples.
I ask as my cousins husband is a contract it project manager and on a good wage but he literally knows f
k all about using computers! He can't even figure out how Spotify works or how to do something simple like extend is home WiFi signal. What the fk is he doing at work all day!!??
I consider myself highly skilled in my niche role in the NHS and sometimes wonder if, with a bit of extra training, I could switch into something a lot more lucrative.
There are currently over two thousand contract jobs listed on jobserve (last 7 days only) for roles that pay £400 or more a day (72 roles at £800 or more a day)Give us some real life examples.
I ask as my cousins husband is a contract it project manager and on a good wage but he literally knows f
k all about using computers! He can't even figure out how Spotify works or how to do something simple like extend is home WiFi signal. What the fk is he doing at work all day!!??I consider myself highly skilled in my niche role in the NHS and sometimes wonder if, with a bit of extra training, I could switch into something a lot more lucrative.
Take a look and read a few https://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/JobSearch.aspx?shid...
Your cousin might not know how to extend WIFI but he/she might be a dab hand at leading a ERP or GDPR project ....
cat with a hat said:
I disagree, they need to at least vaguely follow the conversation.
Well take today as an example - I am having a major technical issue in the way that LoadRunner is interacting with an Oracle Forms 12c application.The PMs input to my issue?
"Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling your software?"!!
I said that was tantamount to basically "switching it off and on again" and of no use whatsoever.
In my experience, IT PMs very rarely "get" what I actually do, regardless of how basic I make the explanation for them.
AmiableChimp said:
cat with a hat said:
I disagree, they need to at least vaguely follow the conversation.
Well take today as an example - I am having a major technical issue in the way that LoadRunner is interacting with an Oracle Forms 12c application.The PMs input to my issue?
"Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling your software?"!!
I said that was tantamount to basically "switching it off and on again" and of no use whatsoever.
In my experience, IT PMs very rarely "get" what I actually do, regardless of how basic I make the explanation for them.
AmiableChimp said:
Well take today as an example - I am having a major technical issue in the way that LoadRunner is interacting with an Oracle Forms 12c application.
The PMs input to my issue?
"Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling your software?"!!
I said that was tantamount to basically "switching it off and on again" and of no use whatsoever.
A contractor's contractor would get 2 days billing out of that. One day to uninstall, one day to reinstall. PM approved it.The PMs input to my issue?
"Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling your software?"!!
I said that was tantamount to basically "switching it off and on again" and of no use whatsoever.
I'm joking!
cat with a hat said:
98elise said:
Wilmslowboy said:
dave_s13 said:
Silly question but as an it contractor what do you actually create that then generates enough cash to pay you these high wages?
Give us some real life examples.
I ask as my cousins husband is a contract it project manager and on a good wage but he literally knows fk all about using computers! He can't even figure out how Spotify works or how to do something simple like extend is home WiFi signal. What the fk is he doing at work all day!!??
I consider myself highly skilled in my niche role in the NHS and sometimes wonder if, with a bit of extra training, I could switch into something a lot more lucrative.
There are currently over two thousand contract jobs listed on jobserve (last 7 days only) for roles that pay £400 or more a day (72 roles at £800 or more a day)Give us some real life examples.
I ask as my cousins husband is a contract it project manager and on a good wage but he literally knows f
k all about using computers! He can't even figure out how Spotify works or how to do something simple like extend is home WiFi signal. What the fk is he doing at work all day!!??I consider myself highly skilled in my niche role in the NHS and sometimes wonder if, with a bit of extra training, I could switch into something a lot more lucrative.
Take a look and read a few https://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/JobSearch.aspx?shid...
Your cousin might not know how to extend WIFI but he/she might be a dab hand at leading a ERP or GDPR project ....
I'm sure lots of PM's who work for car manufacturers could not change the oil on a ford focus. That doesn't mean they are crap PM's.
98elise said:
cat with a hat said:
98elise said:
Wilmslowboy said:
dave_s13 said:
Silly question but as an it contractor what do you actually create that then generates enough cash to pay you these high wages?
Give us some real life examples.
I ask as my cousins husband is a contract it project manager and on a good wage but he literally knows fk all about using computers! He can't even figure out how Spotify works or how to do something simple like extend is home WiFi signal. What the fk is he doing at work all day!!??
I consider myself highly skilled in my niche role in the NHS and sometimes wonder if, with a bit of extra training, I could switch into something a lot more lucrative.
There are currently over two thousand contract jobs listed on jobserve (last 7 days only) for roles that pay £400 or more a day (72 roles at £800 or more a day)Give us some real life examples.
I ask as my cousins husband is a contract it project manager and on a good wage but he literally knows f
k all about using computers! He can't even figure out how Spotify works or how to do something simple like extend is home WiFi signal. What the fk is he doing at work all day!!??I consider myself highly skilled in my niche role in the NHS and sometimes wonder if, with a bit of extra training, I could switch into something a lot more lucrative.
Take a look and read a few https://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/JobSearch.aspx?shid...
Your cousin might not know how to extend WIFI but he/she might be a dab hand at leading a ERP or GDPR project ....
I'm sure lots of PM's who work for car manufacturers could not change the oil on a ford focus. That doesn't mean they are crap PM's.
Am I technical? Well, I don't think I could be described as a techie, but my current role is a BIG software implementation which takes feeds from all sorts of places and requires loads of centralised infrastructure and rolling out desktop hardware so covers most bases.
When senior people ask me for an update, I need to comfortably be able to do that in language they can understand, so I must be able to understand enough myself to make it meaningful for them. I'm not the subject matter expert installing hardware so don't need to know the nitty gritty, I just need to make sure the work has been scheduled in, resourced properly, any dependencies, risks or issues managed appropriately and ultimately, know why the hell we're doing that bit of work. If I knew all the details and could do all the jobs I wouldn't need the project team
I've worked in purely a PM capacity where all I did was schedule tasks, book resources and sit behind a plan all day. I hated that! I like to know enough about what's going on, so do get involved in the detail. I am subjected to reading High Level Design Documents so get to grips with the core bits this way.
gavsdavs said:
AmiableChimp said:
I am a Performance Tester specialising with LoadRunner so a reasonably niche skillset.
Is that still going ? I did 9 months as a load runner testing bod back in 1997. Some companies (BT, Orange, Shell) really got off on it and paid well for the tests it providesThe time is whenever you want. A good contractor needs skill and experience to be self sufficient but there are plenty of crap ones around who can't tell their arse from their elbow but still find clients, so don't hold yourself back.
You'd be lucky to land a £400/day role with only three years of experience. Maybe lower expectations for a while to get some experience under your belt. It all helps building a network of contacts which can pay off in future.
You'd be lucky to land a £400/day role with only three years of experience. Maybe lower expectations for a while to get some experience under your belt. It all helps building a network of contacts which can pay off in future.
wiggy001 said:
gavsdavs said:
AmiableChimp said:
I am a Performance Tester specialising with LoadRunner so a reasonably niche skillset.
Is that still going ? I did 9 months as a load runner testing bod back in 1997. Some companies (BT, Orange, Shell) really got off on it and paid well for the tests it providesWhilst there are lots of free alternatives, when it comes to a technology like Oracle Forms, the alternatives are few and far between (Oracle OATS and Neoload AFAIK).
A lot of the free alternatives are one trick ponies, whereas I have yet to find a technology that LoadRunner cannot script against.
However, I do acknowledge it is not cheap, especially since Microfocus effectively doubled the license costs!!
AmiableChimp said:
wiggy001 said:
gavsdavs said:
AmiableChimp said:
I am a Performance Tester specialising with LoadRunner so a reasonably niche skillset.
Is that still going ? I did 9 months as a load runner testing bod back in 1997. Some companies (BT, Orange, Shell) really got off on it and paid well for the tests it providesWhilst there are lots of free alternatives, when it comes to a technology like Oracle Forms, the alternatives are few and far between (Oracle OATS and Neoload AFAIK).
A lot of the free alternatives are one trick ponies, whereas I have yet to find a technology that LoadRunner cannot script against.
However, I do acknowledge it is not cheap, especially since Microfocus effectively doubled the license costs!!
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