What's Changed In Recruitment?
Discussion
bad company said:
Badda said:
bad company said:
Scattergun approach.
As I said earlier in the thread a rifle is more effective than a shotgun in recruitment.
So you acknowledge that it’s common practice and tried to coach your employees not to do it. It seems we agree, what a strange circular argument. As I said earlier in the thread a rifle is more effective than a shotgun in recruitment.
This thread reminded me of one of my most successful placements.
I was aware that one of the partners of a medium sized North London law firm had died suddenly and unexpectedly. They weren’t clients but I was aware that they were advertising for a replacement. A hard job to fill but I knew I had the ideal candidate. I asked my man if he had applied and he said he hadn’t because he knew the firm and was uncomfortable putting his hat into the ring in case he wasn’t right for them. He was actually embarrassed to apply but he wanted the job.
It would have been crass to cold call and say ‘sorry your bloke died, I want £x,000 for the replacement so I wrote a ‘mailshot’ on my candidate, call it an anonymous cv if you like. I printed it on cheap paper to look like I had sent several but in fact just sent 1 to the senior partner of the firm. He called the next morning to request further details and our terms of business. An interview was arranged for the following evening, they cancelled all the interviews they had arranged already.
Anyway my man got the job and joined as a partner. Result:-
1). I got a very large fee, my % of a partners money.
2). I got a new client onboard.
3). After a couple of years the senior partner retired and my man took the job. Guess who was the preferred recruiters.
Happy candidate, happy client and very happy me.
An employee of mine once made a 15 minute call to a project manager (on the pretence of being a telecoms student to his PA) of Alta vista and placed him in Vodafone for a £35k fee and he was on 40% commission. All on his first day with me!
Badda said:
Well done.
An employee of mine once made a 15 minute call to a project manager (on the pretence of being a telecoms student to his PA) of Alta vista and placed him in Vodafone for a £35k fee and he was on 40% commission. All on his first day with me!
So you’ve worked in recruitment? Then surely you know it’s not all bad.An employee of mine once made a 15 minute call to a project manager (on the pretence of being a telecoms student to his PA) of Alta vista and placed him in Vodafone for a £35k fee and he was on 40% commission. All on his first day with me!
Getting past PA’s was all part of the job, I used to call lunchtime or after the PA went home. My other ruse was to get round the PA by asking the telephoning for the post room. When they answered I’d say I don’t know why they put me through to you I wanted John Jones, viola straight through as an internal call.
No doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
bad company said:
Getting past PA’s was all part of the job, I used to call lunchtime or after the PA went home. My other ruse was to get round the PA by asking the telephoning for the post room. When they answered I’d say I don’t know why they put me through to you I wanted John Jones, viola straight through as an internal call.
No doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
Do you really, truly, not see that saying it's "all part of the job" doesn't excuse being a lying bNo doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
d? And that this type of thing is precisely the kind of duplicitous behaviour that everybody else despises? And the fact that you actually place candidates by using these kind of tactics doesn't even begin to make it OK?bad company said:
Badda said:
Well done.
An employee of mine once made a 15 minute call to a project manager (on the pretence of being a telecoms student to his PA) of Alta vista and placed him in Vodafone for a £35k fee and he was on 40% commission. All on his first day with me!
So you’ve worked in recruitment? Then surely you know it’s not all bad.An employee of mine once made a 15 minute call to a project manager (on the pretence of being a telecoms student to his PA) of Alta vista and placed him in Vodafone for a £35k fee and he was on 40% commission. All on his first day with me!
Getting past PA’s was all part of the job, I used to call lunchtime or after the PA went home. My other ruse was to get round the PA by asking the telephoning for the post room. When they answered I’d say I don’t know why they put me through to you I wanted John Jones, viola straight through as an internal call.
No doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
deckster said:
bad company said:
Getting past PA’s was all part of the job, I used to call lunchtime or after the PA went home. My other ruse was to get round the PA by asking the telephoning for the post room. When they answered I’d say I don’t know why they put me through to you I wanted John Jones, viola straight through as an internal call.
No doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
Do you really, truly, not see that saying it's "all part of the job" doesn't excuse being a lying bNo doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
d? And that this type of thing is precisely the kind of duplicitous behaviour that everybody else despises? And the fact that you actually place candidates by using these kind of tactics doesn't even begin to make it OK?Scummy behaviour is scummy behaviour, regardless of how “successful” it is.
I never had to call to get past a PA etc.
I guess it's indicative of the sort of company you worked for.
I once went for an interview with a big competitor.
One I assumed was ethical and corporate.
I was shocked. I always thought treat your competition as one step ahead and try to be better always. If I had known what I knew at the interview maybe i would have not tried so hard.
Afterwards I also had experience of said big competitor on the other side. I was gobsmacked.
People paid them big bucks.
I guess it's indicative of the sort of company you worked for.
I once went for an interview with a big competitor.
One I assumed was ethical and corporate.
I was shocked. I always thought treat your competition as one step ahead and try to be better always. If I had known what I knew at the interview maybe i would have not tried so hard.
Afterwards I also had experience of said big competitor on the other side. I was gobsmacked.
People paid them big bucks.
deckster said:
bad company said:
Getting past PA’s was all part of the job, I used to call lunchtime or after the PA went home. My other ruse was to get round the PA by asking the telephoning for the post room. When they answered I’d say I don’t know why they put me through to you I wanted John Jones, viola straight through as an internal call.
No doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
Do you really, truly, not see that saying it's "all part of the job" doesn't excuse being a lying bNo doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
d? And that this type of thing is precisely the kind of duplicitous behaviour that everybody else despises? And the fact that you actually place candidates by using these kind of tactics doesn't even begin to make it OK?Anyway apparently I upset a few PH losers because I and the rest of the industry have to use subterfuge methods. So be it.
Countdown said:
deckster said:
bad company said:
Getting past PA’s was all part of the job, I used to call lunchtime or after the PA went home. My other ruse was to get round the PA by asking the telephoning for the post room. When they answered I’d say I don’t know why they put me through to you I wanted John Jones, viola straight through as an internal call.
No doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
Do you really, truly, not see that saying it's "all part of the job" doesn't excuse being a lying bNo doubt someone will be along any minute to call me a lying bar steward. Getting through to the right people was/is all part of the job.
d? And that this type of thing is precisely the kind of duplicitous behaviour that everybody else despises? And the fact that you actually place candidates by using these kind of tactics doesn't even begin to make it OK?Scummy behaviour is scummy behaviour, regardless of how “successful” it is.
bad company said:
Why would I need an excuse? During my career I solved many clients problems by finding them people they couldn’t find themselves. I was instrumental in finding and furthering careers. Many of the young, newly qualified lawyers I found jobs for now are now running those firms.
Anyway apparently I upset a few PH losers because I and the rest of the industry have touse subterfuge methods lie through my teeth. So be it.
Anyway apparently I upset a few PH losers because I and the rest of the industry have to
Edited by Funk on Wednesday 22 August 22:27
bad company said:
Anyway apparently I upset a few PH losers because I and the rest of the industry have to use subterfuge methods. So be it.
Personal attacks aside, you might like to reflect on the comments on this thread and perhaps start to form some conclusions as to why you were so unpopular that you had to resort to subterfuge to get people to speak to you.£32.3 billion industry. Must be doing something right:-
https://www.rec.uk.com/news-and-policy/press-relea...
PH losers comments???
https://www.rec.uk.com/news-and-policy/press-relea...
PH losers comments???
Ah, i love recruitment consultant threads on forums.
ts. 'placement executives'. he's a recruiter with an artificially inflated value of self worth.
Recruitment has changed over the last 10 years. The relationship between the hiring manager and the 3rd party agencies has changed massively over the last 5 years with the growth of the so-called RPO (recruitment process outsourcers) at large corporates. These are technically, onsite recruitment agencies that are given an email address that makes them appear to be a permanent employee of their client. These include the likes of Resource solutions, Ranstand, Alexander Mann Solutions, Pontoon/spring. The idea behind this is that these organisations is to bring a degree of control the hiring process and reduce the cost of using 3rd party agencies.
These RPOs essentially own the end-to-end recruitment cycle and have a heavy mandate on direct sourcing for their client at massively reduced fees. They also, are meant to manage the PSL (preferred supplier list) for 3rd party agencies. This, in principle sounds ideal. However in practice, this is not working out well. RPOs are meant to be drive cost reduction - and they do successfully do this - but they massively increase time to hire on mid-to-senior roles. They rarely have specific expertise in any area (i.e. one day they could be working a project account, next day an IT Project Manager, next day a J2EE developer), therefore they have little content knowledge and are often unable to accurately screen candidates.
So before anyone asks, yes - I am a recruitment consultant. My formal job title on my employment contract is 'Principal Consultant'. I specialise in a specific area of IT exclusively within investment banking and investment management. due to the niche area, i under no circumstances can afford to either alienate my candidates with poor service, or piss my clients off.
I don't;
1) advertise my roles often. maybe 1 in 20. two reasons - I'm often asked to replace someone who's doing the job already and has no idea he or she is being sacked/made redundant.. Also most candidates don't read the actual requirements and look at the £1300/day rate, of £250,000 salary and are always "really interested in your role". I'm sure you are pal, but you clearly cannot read.
2) spam email candidates with st referral fees. I'm paid a premium to conduct search assignments in a discrete fashion.
3) speak to a candidate, find out he wants to leave, and then spam his hiring manager with alternative options. I mean, I am AMAZED this still happens. dumb fks.
4) send speculative CVs unless there's a REALLY GOOD REASON. I.e., one of my clients has had a long-term Murex platform problem I knew the hiring manager well as I'd placed him. A strong contractor who knows Murex platforms back-to-front recently finished a project and was coming on the market, and he had fixed two Murex Platform problems. I called up the hiring manager, said "look, I am not trying to push a CV to you, but this guy has just finished fixing an identical upgrade issue at X bank. You said you were having issues with your platform, could this guy be of help?" Turns out this guy could, and i got an email from the hiring manager (which I have framed) saying "you found a guy the solved the problems that not even the vendor could help us with".
I am proud of my reputation in the market place and would never look to damage it through unprofessional conduct. A lot of the recruitment bashing is warranted, i know this. I see and hear of malpractice all day, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I recently dealt with a programme director who told me to fk off twice on the phone and then sent me an abusive email after I told him that he was not right for my my settlement platform design authority role. Do you see me openly bashing programme managers at every opportunity? No - because this guy was an individual and is not representative of the entire market.
Doofus said:
I met a chap socially the other night, who called himself a Placement Executive, or something. I'd have called him a Recruitment Consultant.
These guys exist, yes. I call them tts. 'placement executives'. he's a recruiter with an artificially inflated value of self worth.Recruitment has changed over the last 10 years. The relationship between the hiring manager and the 3rd party agencies has changed massively over the last 5 years with the growth of the so-called RPO (recruitment process outsourcers) at large corporates. These are technically, onsite recruitment agencies that are given an email address that makes them appear to be a permanent employee of their client. These include the likes of Resource solutions, Ranstand, Alexander Mann Solutions, Pontoon/spring. The idea behind this is that these organisations is to bring a degree of control the hiring process and reduce the cost of using 3rd party agencies.
These RPOs essentially own the end-to-end recruitment cycle and have a heavy mandate on direct sourcing for their client at massively reduced fees. They also, are meant to manage the PSL (preferred supplier list) for 3rd party agencies. This, in principle sounds ideal. However in practice, this is not working out well. RPOs are meant to be drive cost reduction - and they do successfully do this - but they massively increase time to hire on mid-to-senior roles. They rarely have specific expertise in any area (i.e. one day they could be working a project account, next day an IT Project Manager, next day a J2EE developer), therefore they have little content knowledge and are often unable to accurately screen candidates.
So before anyone asks, yes - I am a recruitment consultant. My formal job title on my employment contract is 'Principal Consultant'. I specialise in a specific area of IT exclusively within investment banking and investment management. due to the niche area, i under no circumstances can afford to either alienate my candidates with poor service, or piss my clients off.
I don't;
1) advertise my roles often. maybe 1 in 20. two reasons - I'm often asked to replace someone who's doing the job already and has no idea he or she is being sacked/made redundant.. Also most candidates don't read the actual requirements and look at the £1300/day rate, of £250,000 salary and are always "really interested in your role". I'm sure you are pal, but you clearly cannot read.
2) spam email candidates with s
t referral fees. I'm paid a premium to conduct search assignments in a discrete fashion.3) speak to a candidate, find out he wants to leave, and then spam his hiring manager with alternative options. I mean, I am AMAZED this still happens. dumb f
ks.4) send speculative CVs unless there's a REALLY GOOD REASON. I.e., one of my clients has had a long-term Murex platform problem I knew the hiring manager well as I'd placed him. A strong contractor who knows Murex platforms back-to-front recently finished a project and was coming on the market, and he had fixed two Murex Platform problems. I called up the hiring manager, said "look, I am not trying to push a CV to you, but this guy has just finished fixing an identical upgrade issue at X bank. You said you were having issues with your platform, could this guy be of help?" Turns out this guy could, and i got an email from the hiring manager (which I have framed) saying "you found a guy the solved the problems that not even the vendor could help us with".
I am proud of my reputation in the market place and would never look to damage it through unprofessional conduct. A lot of the recruitment bashing is warranted, i know this. I see and hear of malpractice all day, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I recently dealt with a programme director who told me to f
k off twice on the phone and then sent me an abusive email after I told him that he was not right for my my settlement platform design authority role. Do you see me openly bashing programme managers at every opportunity? No - because this guy was an individual and is not representative of the entire market.deckster said:
Personal attacks aside, you might like to reflect on the comments on this thread and perhaps start to form some conclusions as to why you were so unpopular that you had to resort to subterfuge to get people to speak to you.
Because the people I wanted to headhunt were protected by their secretaries. Get past the ‘gatekeeper’ and I was in business. See my replies above.bad company said:
£32.3 billion industry. Must be doing something right:-
https://www.rec.uk.com/news-and-policy/press-relea...
PH losers comments???
The UK's illegal drugs trade is worth £11bn a year - I wouldn't want to deal with anyone in that sector either if I could help it.https://www.rec.uk.com/news-and-policy/press-relea...
PH losers comments???
edit: and that's coming from a sales guy (we're not much liked either).
Splurge997 said:
Ah, i love recruitment consultant threads on forums.
<snip>
I am proud of my reputation in the market place and would never look to damage it through unprofessional conduct. A lot of the recruitment bashing is warranted, i know this. I see and hear of malpractice all day, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I recently dealt with a programme director who told me to fk off twice on the phone and then sent me an abusive email after I told him that he was not right for my my settlement platform design authority role. Do you see me openly bashing programme managers at every opportunity? No - because this guy was an individual and is not representative of the entire market.
I think it's a very different thing when you work in such a specialist niche. The vast majority of people in non-specialist roles on low-to-midrange salaries only get to experience the vast majority of the worst of the bunch.<snip>
I am proud of my reputation in the market place and would never look to damage it through unprofessional conduct. A lot of the recruitment bashing is warranted, i know this. I see and hear of malpractice all day, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I recently dealt with a programme director who told me to f
k off twice on the phone and then sent me an abusive email after I told him that he was not right for my my settlement platform design authority role. Do you see me openly bashing programme managers at every opportunity? No - because this guy was an individual and is not representative of the entire market.I joked about being 'just a sales guy' just now but my role involves working with customers on hugely varied projects such as networking and SAN solutions and does include some prospecting/cold-calling and I do it without having to 'employ subterfuge'.
Edited by Funk on Wednesday 22 August 22:53
RPO's aren't the future. They are a trend. Sole supplier has always been dallied with.
RPO is just another angle. They'll be another invention or spin of the wheel.
Just like the old school 'get passed a secretary' of the older generation who are now in their 50's+ this will be round again.
Niche recruitment will never be replaced. Everyone will always go to a engineering etc specialist.
LinkedIn is great but networking only goes/has gone so far. Not every good candidate uses LinkedIn activily.
Advertising is King. It's a case of who sees whose ad first...
RPO is just another angle. They'll be another invention or spin of the wheel.
Just like the old school 'get passed a secretary' of the older generation who are now in their 50's+ this will be round again.
Niche recruitment will never be replaced. Everyone will always go to a engineering etc specialist.
LinkedIn is great but networking only goes/has gone so far. Not every good candidate uses LinkedIn activily.
Advertising is King. It's a case of who sees whose ad first...
Sa Calobra said:
RPO's aren't the future. They are a trend. Sole supplier has always been dallied with.
RPO is just another angle. They'll be another invention or spin of the wheel.
Just like the old school 'get passed a secretary' of the older generation who are now in their 50's+ this will be round again.
Niche recruitment will never be replaced. Everyone will always go to a engineering etc specialist.
LinkedIn is great but networking only goes/has gone so far. Not every good candidate uses LinkedIn activily.
Advertising is King. It's a case of who sees whose ad first...
RPO’s sole supplier agreements. Great BUT if I had the best candidate I had to and could get around them.RPO is just another angle. They'll be another invention or spin of the wheel.
Just like the old school 'get passed a secretary' of the older generation who are now in their 50's+ this will be round again.
Niche recruitment will never be replaced. Everyone will always go to a engineering etc specialist.
LinkedIn is great but networking only goes/has gone so far. Not every good candidate uses LinkedIn activily.
Advertising is King. It's a case of who sees whose ad first...
Advertising was ok but expensive. Search (headhunting) better and cheaper.
Funk said:
The UK's illegal drugs trade is worth £11bn a year - I wouldn't want to deal with anyone in that sector either if I could help it.
edit: and that's coming from a sales guy (we're not much liked either).
I don’t do illegal.edit: and that's coming from a sales guy (we're not much liked either).
Edited by Funk on Wednesday 22 August 22:34
This thread is great fun.
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