Trials of Finding New Job
Discussion
funkyrobot said:
At my last job, there was a big push to focus on the four core values of the American owned business. There were training days booked, staff hired to train on the values, tests to be done to check your understanding, websites setup, leaflets handed out, spot checks to test you etc. Never mind the fact that my old manager and his style made an absolute mockery of the values. If you didn't know them, you were in trouble. 
If you didn't apply them, it didn't seem to matter though. Bizarre.
Haha, I used to work for an American company. Sent me to the US head office for training. Got told to meet the guy at 10am for office based training. By 1.30pm, after lunch, we were in a gun shop looking at guns. If you didn't apply them, it didn't seem to matter though. Bizarre.ToothbrushMan said:
be interesting to hear how the interview went today.
those registered with agencies - there was a time when they would chase you but now you have to chase them. i havent heard from some of mine ( i tihnk i am with about 6 or agencies) for months.
i am also asking them for advice on how i can improve my prospects today so that will be interesting to hear what solid advice I receive whihc I will post up on here. I fully expect to receive no new advice - i really do think that finding a job these days is down to the person wanting the job as I hear very few people finding work through job centres or agencies (even those that only deal in non skilled or low paid manual labour).
I cant believe that after 8 months now I havent even landed a job putting tins on a shelf ! I am focused and doing all the right things to find work but its not happening.
What a monumental waste of time that interview was.those registered with agencies - there was a time when they would chase you but now you have to chase them. i havent heard from some of mine ( i tihnk i am with about 6 or agencies) for months.
i am also asking them for advice on how i can improve my prospects today so that will be interesting to hear what solid advice I receive whihc I will post up on here. I fully expect to receive no new advice - i really do think that finding a job these days is down to the person wanting the job as I hear very few people finding work through job centres or agencies (even those that only deal in non skilled or low paid manual labour).
I cant believe that after 8 months now I havent even landed a job putting tins on a shelf ! I am focused and doing all the right things to find work but its not happening.
Absolutely no info passed on to the store manager from my head office interview on Friday. No mention of current work, hours I am after, why I'm leaving etc. The store manager asked practically the same questions again.
Biggest issue for me was hours. I said to the head office person on Friday that I can't do 3 hour shifts as I'm travelling 30 minutes to get to work and it just won't be suitable for me. She said ok, this will be passed onto the manager. When I asked the store manager about hours, he said it's the 3 hour shifts.
He was late in seeing me too. I was there ten minutes early. Wasn't spoken to until ten minutes after the interview time.
Waste of a 40 mile round trip and two hours of my life.
The job itself sounds ok, I just can't do it in 3 hour nuggets.
OP - great thread, finding it really interesting to follow and good luck!
Slightly radical idea, and definitely toward the (very) low end of weekly hours, but have you looked at the Army Reserve? A mate of mine was in a similar position and went with the RY, which helped the rough edges until he got himself sorted. Not sure how you are physically, but pay isn't terrible, commitment is fairly small and you might even enjoy it a little...If you're a driver with the various licence qualifications then a local Royal Logistics Corps or Royal Armoured Corps unit would probably snap you up?
Recruitment upper age limit was pushed up to 52 a while ago IIRC, but much lower for the Regulars (unsurprisingly).
Slightly radical idea, and definitely toward the (very) low end of weekly hours, but have you looked at the Army Reserve? A mate of mine was in a similar position and went with the RY, which helped the rough edges until he got himself sorted. Not sure how you are physically, but pay isn't terrible, commitment is fairly small and you might even enjoy it a little...If you're a driver with the various licence qualifications then a local Royal Logistics Corps or Royal Armoured Corps unit would probably snap you up?
Recruitment upper age limit was pushed up to 52 a while ago IIRC, but much lower for the Regulars (unsurprisingly).
ToothbrushMan said:
Went to sign on today as usual in between the job hunting......appointment was first thing on a group session (a talk for half an hour about something I dont know what). anyway I get there early and wait until 10 minutes past my allotted time then I was going to be signed by my usual advisor (no group session afterall) I asked whats happened to the group session? The advisors response "the provider has not turned up".
I wonder if the provider was sanctioned?
That makes no sense at all. They are providing a service, they may be let go if they are an employee, or not have their contract renewed if they are an external supplier, but sanctioning is completely different; it’s for the unemployed who are unable to comply with even the very low level of effort and attentiveness that they are required to show. Having a face-to-face meeting every week or two and evidencing a serious search for work is very little to ask, and turning up reliably for these few meeting should be a given.I wonder if the provider was sanctioned?
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06
James_B said:
ToothbrushMan said:
Went to sign on today as usual in between the job hunting......appointment was first thing on a group session (a talk for half an hour about something I dont know what). anyway I get there early and wait until 10 minutes past my allotted time then I was going to be signed by my usual advisor (no group session afterall) I asked whats happened to the group session? The advisors response "the provider has not turned up".
I wonder if the provider was sanctioned?
That makes no sense at all. They are providing a service, they may be let go if they are an employee, or not have their contract renewed if they are an external supplier, but sanctioning is completely different; it’s for the unemployed who are unable to comply with even the very low level of effort and attentiveness that they are required to show. Having a face-to-face meeting every week or two and evidencing a serious search for work is very little to ask, and turning up reliably for these few meeting should be a given.I wonder if the provider was sanctioned?
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06
i know - it was said tongue firmly in cheek.
funkyrobot said:
ToothbrushMan said:
be interesting to hear how the interview went today.
those registered with agencies - there was a time when they would chase you but now you have to chase them. i havent heard from some of mine ( i tihnk i am with about 6 or agencies) for months.
I cant believe that after 8 months now I havent even landed a job putting tins on a shelf ! I am focused and doing all the right things to find work but its not happening.
What a monumental waste of time that interview was.those registered with agencies - there was a time when they would chase you but now you have to chase them. i havent heard from some of mine ( i tihnk i am with about 6 or agencies) for months.
I cant believe that after 8 months now I havent even landed a job putting tins on a shelf ! I am focused and doing all the right things to find work but its not happening.
i've got some video interview questions coming from an insurance company - each taking up to 25 minutes. so my fate is probably to be decided by a piece of software - its bulls*it. its not even for a particularly high flying job but these days all common sense is set aside as more companies stick to these barmly ways of sifting through applications.
a position elsewhere that i applied for mid july and interviewed for (cracking interview where I didnt slip up on any of the questions and thought it was in the bag) has popped up again today on the job boards. I honestly do not know what these companies are looking for. 100% perfection.
I got word on a position in Bristol. after some tooing and froing with the agency I discovered they will consider me doing 2 or 3 days a week at the Bristol office and 2 or 3 days a week at their Bham office (where I live). Pay is good enough to cover the travel costs as I would work it to do 2 days a week in Bristol 3 days in Bham by hook or by crook. either drive down or train it. Not ideal and certainly not something I would do for long. I just need to try and get it to pay bills but keep on looking for something local 5 days a week. If i get an interview I'll put the smile on and try and work it but theres no way I am moving to Brizzol.
ToothbrushMan said:
sorry to hear that mate. how annoying. if you are interviewed its like youre applying for the role of CEO with all the daft question sometimes but then you meet people in jobs like this and you gotta ask yourself how did you get the job here or how are you still employed here if you cant even do the job properly?
i've got some video interview questions coming from an insurance company - each taking up to 25 minutes. so my fate is probably to be decided by a piece of software - its bulls*it. its not even for a particularly high flying job but these days all common sense is set aside as more companies stick to these barmly ways of sifting through applications.
a position elsewhere that i applied for mid july and interviewed for (cracking interview where I didnt slip up on any of the questions and thought it was in the bag) has popped up again today on the job boards. I honestly do not know what these companies are looking for. 100% perfection.
I got word on a position in Bristol. after some tooing and froing with the agency I discovered they will consider me doing 2 or 3 days a week at the Bristol office and 2 or 3 days a week at their Bham office (where I live). Pay is good enough to cover the travel costs as I would work it to do 2 days a week in Bristol 3 days in Bham by hook or by crook. either drive down or train it. Not ideal and certainly not something I would do for long. I just need to try and get it to pay bills but keep on looking for something local 5 days a week. If i get an interview I'll put the smile on and try and work it but theres no way I am moving to Brizzol.
Thanks. I hope you get on ok with the latest application.i've got some video interview questions coming from an insurance company - each taking up to 25 minutes. so my fate is probably to be decided by a piece of software - its bulls*it. its not even for a particularly high flying job but these days all common sense is set aside as more companies stick to these barmly ways of sifting through applications.
a position elsewhere that i applied for mid july and interviewed for (cracking interview where I didnt slip up on any of the questions and thought it was in the bag) has popped up again today on the job boards. I honestly do not know what these companies are looking for. 100% perfection.
I got word on a position in Bristol. after some tooing and froing with the agency I discovered they will consider me doing 2 or 3 days a week at the Bristol office and 2 or 3 days a week at their Bham office (where I live). Pay is good enough to cover the travel costs as I would work it to do 2 days a week in Bristol 3 days in Bham by hook or by crook. either drive down or train it. Not ideal and certainly not something I would do for long. I just need to try and get it to pay bills but keep on looking for something local 5 days a week. If i get an interview I'll put the smile on and try and work it but theres no way I am moving to Brizzol.
I have had a response to my interview yesterday. Apparently, I am a great fit for the role, but someone else is better suited.
I've asked for more detail and some feedback. Will see if it materialises.
funkyrobot said:
ToothbrushMan said:
sorry to hear that mate. how annoying. if you are interviewed its like youre applying for the role of CEO with all the daft question sometimes but then you meet people in jobs like this and you gotta ask yourself how did you get the job here or how are you still employed here if you cant even do the job properly?
i've got some video interview questions coming from an insurance company - each taking up to 25 minutes. so my fate is probably to be decided by a piece of software - its bulls*it. its not even for a particularly high flying job but these days all common sense is set aside as more companies stick to these barmly ways of sifting through applications.
a position elsewhere that i applied for mid july and interviewed for (cracking interview where I didnt slip up on any of the questions and thought it was in the bag) has popped up again today on the job boards. I honestly do not know what these companies are looking for. 100% perfection.
I got word on a position in Bristol. after some tooing and froing with the agency I discovered they will consider me doing 2 or 3 days a week at the Bristol office and 2 or 3 days a week at their Bham office (where I live). Pay is good enough to cover the travel costs as I would work it to do 2 days a week in Bristol 3 days in Bham by hook or by crook. either drive down or train it. Not ideal and certainly not something I would do for long. I just need to try and get it to pay bills but keep on looking for something local 5 days a week. If i get an interview I'll put the smile on and try and work it but theres no way I am moving to Brizzol.
Thanks. I hope you get on ok with the latest application.i've got some video interview questions coming from an insurance company - each taking up to 25 minutes. so my fate is probably to be decided by a piece of software - its bulls*it. its not even for a particularly high flying job but these days all common sense is set aside as more companies stick to these barmly ways of sifting through applications.
a position elsewhere that i applied for mid july and interviewed for (cracking interview where I didnt slip up on any of the questions and thought it was in the bag) has popped up again today on the job boards. I honestly do not know what these companies are looking for. 100% perfection.
I got word on a position in Bristol. after some tooing and froing with the agency I discovered they will consider me doing 2 or 3 days a week at the Bristol office and 2 or 3 days a week at their Bham office (where I live). Pay is good enough to cover the travel costs as I would work it to do 2 days a week in Bristol 3 days in Bham by hook or by crook. either drive down or train it. Not ideal and certainly not something I would do for long. I just need to try and get it to pay bills but keep on looking for something local 5 days a week. If i get an interview I'll put the smile on and try and work it but theres no way I am moving to Brizzol.
I have had a response to my interview yesterday. Apparently, I am a great fit for the role, but someone else is better suited.
I've asked for more detail and some feedback. Will see if it materialises.
I'm seeing these "endless vacancies" too. I've been interviewed for some of them and then heard nothing more. The most infuriating was several years ago when I had two rounds of interviews including a presentation piece which took a day to put together and four hours to deliver.
One set of business consultants actually advised us to advertise fake jobs and interview candidates so that "if you have a sudden rush of work you already have a resource pool to call on". Fortunately the MD said that was totally unethical and refused. But if that sort of attitude is common it would explain why lots of us waste time and effort applying for jobs that don't exist.
Recruitment agents are a necessary evil, to the point that I got one job which wasn't advertised anywhere - not even on the company website - for reasons I was never entirely able to fathom (this was a very senior level role, so perhaps the company did not wish to alert people to the hole in its leadership team).
HR departments (and agents) are swamped with unsuitable applications from scattergun approaches - if you have LinkedIn premium you can see the qualifications and locations of applicants and some of the more honest agents have told me about the 100s of CVs they have received from people who lack the necessary skills, experience, qualifications, work visas etc. Unfortunately this means relying on automated screening which often jettisons people because of tiny "errors" in CV layout. E.g. the screening software fails to pick up your current employer and dumps you. I had an "inside man" at one firm who discovered that HR had connected the software to an automated company checker to verify employment history, however, that only had large (1000+ employee) companies. As I'd worked for some small firms the checker decided that I'd been contracting and/or had made up an employer, thus dumped me automatically.
Sadly, this results in a vicious circle where as an applicant you have no idea which are "real" vacancies or where you might be automatically filtered out, thus you stop bothering to tailor your CV and instead fire it off willy nilly on the basis that it's just a numbers game. Which in turn means recruitment agents are necessary to filter some of the tidal wave of applications, and automated screening software is required too. Leading to more automatic rejections and hence more random applications ...
One set of business consultants actually advised us to advertise fake jobs and interview candidates so that "if you have a sudden rush of work you already have a resource pool to call on". Fortunately the MD said that was totally unethical and refused. But if that sort of attitude is common it would explain why lots of us waste time and effort applying for jobs that don't exist.
Recruitment agents are a necessary evil, to the point that I got one job which wasn't advertised anywhere - not even on the company website - for reasons I was never entirely able to fathom (this was a very senior level role, so perhaps the company did not wish to alert people to the hole in its leadership team).
HR departments (and agents) are swamped with unsuitable applications from scattergun approaches - if you have LinkedIn premium you can see the qualifications and locations of applicants and some of the more honest agents have told me about the 100s of CVs they have received from people who lack the necessary skills, experience, qualifications, work visas etc. Unfortunately this means relying on automated screening which often jettisons people because of tiny "errors" in CV layout. E.g. the screening software fails to pick up your current employer and dumps you. I had an "inside man" at one firm who discovered that HR had connected the software to an automated company checker to verify employment history, however, that only had large (1000+ employee) companies. As I'd worked for some small firms the checker decided that I'd been contracting and/or had made up an employer, thus dumped me automatically.
Sadly, this results in a vicious circle where as an applicant you have no idea which are "real" vacancies or where you might be automatically filtered out, thus you stop bothering to tailor your CV and instead fire it off willy nilly on the basis that it's just a numbers game. Which in turn means recruitment agents are necessary to filter some of the tidal wave of applications, and automated screening software is required too. Leading to more automatic rejections and hence more random applications ...
flooble - i think youre right mate that company probably wanted to keep the gap in their senior team hush hush hence not advertised.
part of me if now wondering if my options are beginning to become more and more limited and a tiny voice in my head is thinking of going back to setting y own business up.
i see these you tube videos and tv shows of guys with nice little units working on and repairing cars and im thinking that it looks good and if you are up to the work you will always be busy. i think welding of cars is a dying specialism (the reserve of classics) and was toying with maybe getting into that (not over plating but proper cut out and weld in new). aiming at the modern classic market of resto work. never welded in my life which makes that tricky LOL.
part of me if now wondering if my options are beginning to become more and more limited and a tiny voice in my head is thinking of going back to setting y own business up.
i see these you tube videos and tv shows of guys with nice little units working on and repairing cars and im thinking that it looks good and if you are up to the work you will always be busy. i think welding of cars is a dying specialism (the reserve of classics) and was toying with maybe getting into that (not over plating but proper cut out and weld in new). aiming at the modern classic market of resto work. never welded in my life which makes that tricky LOL.
I am convinced that some agencies literally make up roles that they want CV's for.
I know this is true for at least one role I applied for as I had seen the same advert for over a year and surely they were not relentlessly employing people for it!
The more you deal especially with agencies, the more the whole scene makes you wince.
I was asked earlier for my permission for a previous agency from my new one, to be allowed via the new privacy law to see a reference, will be just a "he worked here from A to B." ISn't that what a reference is, a simple question> it does not affect my sodding privacy for goodness sake.
the world has gone mad
I know this is true for at least one role I applied for as I had seen the same advert for over a year and surely they were not relentlessly employing people for it!
The more you deal especially with agencies, the more the whole scene makes you wince.
I was asked earlier for my permission for a previous agency from my new one, to be allowed via the new privacy law to see a reference, will be just a "he worked here from A to B." ISn't that what a reference is, a simple question> it does not affect my sodding privacy for goodness sake.
the world has gone mad
No feedback from my interview and why I wasnt suitable for the role. What a surprise.
I was talking to someone today at work about recruitment. I don't know if this is true, but I was informed that one of the best ways to get a job is to just approach companies. I was told that 80% of jobs aren't advertised.
The person that told me this is a sales person and loves herself. She said she has worked in recruitment though and it's true.
I was talking to someone today at work about recruitment. I don't know if this is true, but I was informed that one of the best ways to get a job is to just approach companies. I was told that 80% of jobs aren't advertised.
The person that told me this is a sales person and loves herself. She said she has worked in recruitment though and it's true.
funkyrobot said:
Just applying for a job at a supermarket doing the delivery driving.
Two fields on the online form have caught my eye:
1. Current salary
2. Minimum salary sought
What the hell are you supposed to put in the latter?
i think in some states in the USA these questions are now prohibited and i can see why - i hate them. that information is used to benchmark your worth to your old employer IMHO but i think when applying for a new job it shouldnt at least not at the early stages on the process have bugger all to do with the new company. thats private. If you tell them you was on £50k and this job pays up to 30K youre history as they will think the role is too junior for you or that the pay is much lower so you will get bored of the job and quickly look to move again.Two fields on the online form have caught my eye:
1. Current salary
2. Minimum salary sought
What the hell are you supposed to put in the latter?
salary sought - i think this is (and call me mr cynical) one of those dangerous questions where being honest in your answer could actually harm your chances of the CV and I dare say in many circs may mean that answered "incorreclty" would end you CV straight to the "unsuccessful" pile. why ? I truly believe that companies know what they will pay up to already so lets says its £25k. you put down salary sought of £18k are you at risk of getting the job but being offered £18 (to keep you sweet) whilst saving them approx. 7k? if you put down say £28k would be mad because it tells the employer you havent read the salary range in the advert. telling them you seek the top £25k in their range might put you in the red zone as they could have 100 applications from other people who have put £22,23, 24k so they could look at you as an expense they can get around.
i also dislike those online applications that ask these question but only allow you to enter a numeric answer - so you cant say "competitive" for salary sought or "market fair for the role" etc......they want to tie you to a figure and that boils my piss.
the market is so tough today though I just swallow my pride and to even try to get to an interview I have been putting down much lower figures that are true. I dont care. it is likely to be one of the only ways to the grab attention of the employer in a sea of applicants unless youre really into a specialised industry I know its not right but thats my view. .
in the same way as recruitment "experts" tell you to match your CV to the job I say match your salary to it too ! If it gets you the job fine - it worked and rightly so move on if you find something that is back up to your old salary level (dog eat dog) but I fear few employers these days fall for this. Quite where you would stand a couple of moths into a job if they find out you was earning much more than you said you was in your old job whether they would have grounds to dismiss you. I dont know. its hardly gross negligence but they might look at the moral hazard of you lying. Adain at the moment these are chances I am prepared to rake as I dont plan on sticking around in a low paid job for long enough for them to ever know the truth.
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Wednesday 19th September 21:36
just to add to the above working in insurance and financial services I actually think that on one role I applied for with a global insurer I botched my chances becuase when asked a) what was my last salary and b) what salary are you looking for her they took umbridhe to my answers which were a) i dont want to disclose that information and b) i said I wanted a competitive salary for the duties and responsibilites of the role (so I didnt want to get into bald figures with them) and I reckon that because they didnt know from that where to position me in a sea of other applicants who probably did reveal their figures that this led to my CV getting binned off. I wasnt rude or anything but I didn go on to say that I would talk about salary if they felt that I was the person they wanted for the role but not to talk salary first as nobody at that stage knows if I am right for the role. Essentially they want fully experieneced peolle cheap and I dont do cheap. If they want somebody with experience that fits the bill I want the right rewards for it and not undersell myself.
The employer was Aviva (a huge carrier in the UK) and this ties back to an earlier post where I said I was unsuccessful as other had been put through to the next round - yet earlier this week the exact same job was re=advertised ! You couldnt make it up !
i cant post it here for fear of breach of copyright but you might have seen a great Meme on the internet which shows a pair of smug looking HR robots behind a desk twizzling their pens with the caption above "We're pretty sure we wont hire you - but not so sure that we will stop wasting your time".......
The employer was Aviva (a huge carrier in the UK) and this ties back to an earlier post where I said I was unsuccessful as other had been put through to the next round - yet earlier this week the exact same job was re=advertised ! You couldnt make it up !
i cant post it here for fear of breach of copyright but you might have seen a great Meme on the internet which shows a pair of smug looking HR robots behind a desk twizzling their pens with the caption above "We're pretty sure we wont hire you - but not so sure that we will stop wasting your time".......
kers.Got a knockback from a recruiter the other day, explaining the job spec was really out of my range of skills, I pinged her a quick thank you email & apolgised if I wasted her time as I read the advert as being a pretty good fit, actually got a nice reply in which she explained that the client also wanted someone with 5 years experience, not 4, not 6, not 18 (in my case), but 5 & that they wouldn’t consider anything else.
You really can’t argue with that kind of logic.
You really can’t argue with that kind of logic.
Don't forget, managers don't know how to interview. They have close to no training and little experience. This means they ask questions and steer you in directions that don't answer the real questions they want answered - it's the classic customer not knowing what they want until you show them. Who needed an iPod until it was created?
How do you answer questions that aren't asked? How do you fulfill a job spec that isn't communicated? You need to prep like crazy, and like a salesman segue into answering things they actually need to know; promoting your strengths at every opportunity. How many times have you left an interview and thought "they didn't ask me about X...I'm really good at Y but I never got to show them..." or end up talking lots with the interviewers and thinking you did well, but then realising you sold yourself short.
I know someone who would say, "I ask the interviewers questions with the aim of making them talk - the more they talk, the less I need to."
This is idiocy logic. You're losing important airtime at winning the job.
Here's a good book on the subject: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XQ7QFSG/ref...
How do you answer questions that aren't asked? How do you fulfill a job spec that isn't communicated? You need to prep like crazy, and like a salesman segue into answering things they actually need to know; promoting your strengths at every opportunity. How many times have you left an interview and thought "they didn't ask me about X...I'm really good at Y but I never got to show them..." or end up talking lots with the interviewers and thinking you did well, but then realising you sold yourself short.
I know someone who would say, "I ask the interviewers questions with the aim of making them talk - the more they talk, the less I need to."
This is idiocy logic. You're losing important airtime at winning the job.
Here's a good book on the subject: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XQ7QFSG/ref...
DJFish said:
Got a knockback from a recruiter the other day, explaining the job spec was really out of my range of skills, I pinged her a quick thank you email & apolgised if I wasted her time as I read the advert as being a pretty good fit, actually got a nice reply in which she explained that the client also wanted someone with 5 years experience, not 4, not 6, not 18 (in my case), but 5 & that they wouldn’t consider anything else.
You really can’t argue with that kind of logic.
You should have gone back with that you weren't really paying attention for the last 13 years.You really can’t argue with that kind of logic.
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