Trials of Finding New Job
Discussion
funkyrobot said:
Some applications posted today.
1. Local bakery needing someone to help with sandwich making etc. Sounds good.
2. National chain of restaurants want a waiter. Applied with literally 3 clicks (name, email, CV). Didn't seem to be much effort. Probably farming for CV's.
3. National chain of travel agents. One of the hardest applications to date. CV, cover letter, then an assessment consisting of reading comprehension (10 minutes), maths (10 minutes), test scenario responses (30 minutes) and finally, a 138 question personality check (40 minutes). I managed to do it all in under an hour. But, jeez. A lot of work just to get passed the first step. Don't even know yet whether or not I'll get an interview.
Need to sort my JSA out as I officially became a jobless bum at 5pm this evening.
Did you do the online assessment for royal mail ?1. Local bakery needing someone to help with sandwich making etc. Sounds good.
2. National chain of restaurants want a waiter. Applied with literally 3 clicks (name, email, CV). Didn't seem to be much effort. Probably farming for CV's.
3. National chain of travel agents. One of the hardest applications to date. CV, cover letter, then an assessment consisting of reading comprehension (10 minutes), maths (10 minutes), test scenario responses (30 minutes) and finally, a 138 question personality check (40 minutes). I managed to do it all in under an hour. But, jeez. A lot of work just to get passed the first step. Don't even know yet whether or not I'll get an interview.
Need to sort my JSA out as I officially became a jobless bum at 5pm this evening.
This week i took home £358 , that was a totally flat week with no overtime and from next week we'll be going from 39 to 38 hours week and from next oct down to a 37 hour week .
egor110 said:
Did you do the online assessment for royal mail ?
This week i took home £358 , that was a totally flat week with no overtime and from next week we'll be going from 39 to 38 hours week and from next oct down to a 37 hour week .
Cool. No, my wife did though as she has gone for a job there. If she doesn't get it, I may take a look.This week i took home £358 , that was a totally flat week with no overtime and from next week we'll be going from 39 to 38 hours week and from next oct down to a 37 hour week .
Flooble said:
Just had an agent approach me (yaaay) about a role.
Except I worked out where it was and know the guy who runs that department so in response to her initial email I asked how my mate was and if they still ran a particular system (I know they do).
Got an automatic ‘here’s the job description, tell me what you think’ reply. Didn’t acknowledge my two questions.
So evidently either a real person not reading their emails or an entirely automated CV collection system.
Sums up the state of today’s job market
staggeringly sExcept I worked out where it was and know the guy who runs that department so in response to her initial email I asked how my mate was and if they still ran a particular system (I know they do).
Got an automatic ‘here’s the job description, tell me what you think’ reply. Didn’t acknowledge my two questions.
So evidently either a real person not reading their emails or an entirely automated CV collection system.
Sums up the state of today’s job market
te isnt it.......i had to chase up another global company today about an interview way back in sunny July- i doubt i got to the next stage but as a follow up at least make them put a bit of effort in and I wont leave them alone until they do come back. so far just had their acknowledgement they will an not automated either which make s a change. I am really beginning to lose trust in agencies and plan on checking up on whether they are actually putting me forward for roles or whether roles exist once
get the name of the company I will be sending them a tactful email to ensure that the company does actually have a vacancy.....
ill be back on it again tomorrow.......my only hope at the moment is a possible job selling used cars for a national dealer. reckon id hate it but it could be money for at least 3-6 months if I managed to convince them that I am actually CEO material !!
get the name of the company I will be sending them a tactful email to ensure that the company does actually have a vacancy.....
ill be back on it again tomorrow.......my only hope at the moment is a possible job selling used cars for a national dealer. reckon id hate it but it could be money for at least 3-6 months if I managed to convince them that I am actually CEO material !!
ive done it again and fallen into that trap of happily telling an agency my DoB......I am furious with myself but the conversation with the agent flows along so well it kind of just hits you after the call not during. the agent said something like.....".....OK thats all great......oh by the way we just need to update our records.......whats your date of birth?"
needless to say I did this tuesday and that agent said we have a number of openings and that somebody with my experience should'nt be out of work much longer (blowing smoke up my backside - they all seem to do this giving false hope). and he will definitely get back to me in a few days and he we are on Friday - no phone call. I do wonder if as soon as they put the phone down on me on Tuesday did they chuck my CV straight into the shredder because they know I am 49 not 29?
This search is proving painful.
needless to say I did this tuesday and that agent said we have a number of openings and that somebody with my experience should'nt be out of work much longer (blowing smoke up my backside - they all seem to do this giving false hope). and he will definitely get back to me in a few days and he we are on Friday - no phone call. I do wonder if as soon as they put the phone down on me on Tuesday did they chuck my CV straight into the shredder because they know I am 49 not 29?
This search is proving painful.
ToothbrushMan said:
chunder27 said:
Why 5 years EXACTLY?
That makes no sense at alL!
mad isnt it. 4 you can understand as its too little maybe but 6 not being acceptable? it must be 5. how churlish can the employer be? maybe they are hoping that the bod with 5 years experience got that straight from school and will be no older than 21? 22 years old ? your too old LOL. That makes no sense at alL!
Same interview this guy also knew my current employer and many colleagues as they used to work together before starting their own businesses, I also nailed their technical tests and gave better answers than anyone else they interviewed previously (probably comes from industry experience) so I couldn't really be any better of a fit for the role. They had been advertising for the role for 2 years he said. Then didn't give it to me 'because someone else was a better fit'.
It made me give up on being a good fit for any future role as I doubt I'll fit the perfect box for anything else like I did with this one. So I've been aiming for more senior roles I can learn in now rather than side step into the same role elsewhere for more money.
Good luck to anyone out there job hunting though, it's very tough. I got my current job after being head hunted on LinkedIn by a recruiter, and I had no recent experience at the time as I previously spent 4 years abroad travelling and doing odd-jobs.
I don't think recruitment companies care about holding a database of candidates, that can get out of date as soon as one finds a job and LinkedIn provides a better database than what they can develop anyway.
They do care about databases. They use this to pitch big clients. You can't say "yes we use LinkedIn," it's like not owning your own IP.
I've said it earlier in this thread. Managers don't know what they want. It's your job to tell them. Recruiters are a very mixed bunch. It's obvious what they're selling, is it obvious what you're selling? This "servant-master" relationship of the industrial age is outdated but it's the way the vast majority of candidates approach employers and recruiters. Who wants to hire a needy person? Just a whiff of lack of confidence and you are not getting past the gate keepers. Being humble is important but certainly not during the typical recruitment process. You need to KNOW your CV very well, key outcomes delivered, key relationships and experiences you can share. Understand their problem, ask relevant questions - "what project would I be working on first?" - and describe how you are the best person. It's simple but difficult to execute and takes practice.
I've said it earlier in this thread. Managers don't know what they want. It's your job to tell them. Recruiters are a very mixed bunch. It's obvious what they're selling, is it obvious what you're selling? This "servant-master" relationship of the industrial age is outdated but it's the way the vast majority of candidates approach employers and recruiters. Who wants to hire a needy person? Just a whiff of lack of confidence and you are not getting past the gate keepers. Being humble is important but certainly not during the typical recruitment process. You need to KNOW your CV very well, key outcomes delivered, key relationships and experiences you can share. Understand their problem, ask relevant questions - "what project would I be working on first?" - and describe how you are the best person. It's simple but difficult to execute and takes practice.
Edited by silent ninja on Friday 28th September 12:25
funkyrobot said:
egor110 said:
Did you do the online assessment for royal mail ?
This week i took home £358 , that was a totally flat week with no overtime and from next week we'll be going from 39 to 38 hours week and from next oct down to a 37 hour week .
Cool. No, my wife did though as she has gone for a job there. If she doesn't get it, I may take a look.This week i took home £358 , that was a totally flat week with no overtime and from next week we'll be going from 39 to 38 hours week and from next oct down to a 37 hour week .
It’s surprising how many couples actually work here .
egor110 said:
funkyrobot said:
egor110 said:
Did you do the online assessment for royal mail ?
This week i took home £358 , that was a totally flat week with no overtime and from next week we'll be going from 39 to 38 hours week and from next oct down to a 37 hour week .
Cool. No, my wife did though as she has gone for a job there. If she doesn't get it, I may take a look.This week i took home £358 , that was a totally flat week with no overtime and from next week we'll be going from 39 to 38 hours week and from next oct down to a 37 hour week .
It’s surprising how many couples actually work here .
Only thing is if we both can't get the same job hours due to school runs and childcare.
Xaero said:
I don't think recruitment companies care about holding a database of candidates, that can get out of date as soon as one finds a job and LinkedIn provides a better database than what they can develop anyway.
The agents primary concern is making X number of calls per day and securing X number of new contacts per day.That's why when they phone you with this fantastic sounding job (usually a temp role at £90 per hour), they are so insistent on getting your references contact details (and then you never hear from them again), your effectively giving them free direct access to your previous or current employer/manager, to whom they can sell their services.
If you put your references in your CV you'll get considerably less calls from agencies, but including your address and full DOB is just asking for identity theft. My CV even contains a disclaimer stating that my details cannot be passed to 3rd parties without my express permission on a case by case basis.
In the case of former employers, they get the best of both worlds, they get a contact who they know is looking to fill the role you just left, so they go through their database and spam your reference with details of candidates, they then get pissed off with all the spam emails and phone calls, and refuse to give you a reference.
Most agency staff are dirty little scum bags and you have to be careful they don't f**k you over in pursuit of their daily targets.
Edited by lyonspride on Friday 28th September 18:59
lyonspride said:
Xaero said:
If you put your references in your CV you'll get considerably less calls from agencies, but including your address and full DOB is just asking for identity theft. My CV even contains a disclaimer stating that my details cannot be passed to 3rd parties without my express permission on a case by case basis.
I
Youre probably already protected by GDPR - thats assuming the agency is at least saying they comply with the laws that govern such matters. I bet theres plenty of fly by night agencies out there that dont even know what GDPR is.I
Edited by lyonspride on Friday 28th September 18:59
Belt and braces makes good sense though ........and yes NEVER put your date of birth on a CV.
Thought I would add my woes to this discussion.
I left my previous job at the end of April as there was no real progression left in the role (I had been waiting for over a year for them to advertise the next job above from someone who left however they then pinched this post to use elsewhere). I'd been there 5 years doing the same role, doing a about 30-40%+ of the role above anyway.
This new role has turned out not to be the job sold to me and the red tape processes and panic at making any improvements or changes are worse than my previous Public Sector job so I am looking again. Also their idea of their personal development is you will have everything dictated to you they want you to work on and your own development is an afterthought. For example you have to be a "platform owner" of something. Other people in my team (who are windows/Directory services roles same as mine) have NetIQ IiManager, Exchange/o365 and Sharepoint. My platform ownership is DNS (which primarily is on Linux). So I am expected to know the ins and outs of how it works and be responsible for it but don't have the rights/power to over-rule the linux team and start messing with it, even if I was hot on linux which I am not!)
Placed my CV out there on a couple of job sites and also applied for various roles
1)Got a call out the blue beginning of August from a recruiter about a role at a small IT company who weren't sure if they wanted someone experienced or lower down the food chain but were going to put me forward - heard nothing since.
2)Applied for a role via a well known IT agency, who put me forward and I had a telephone interview with the hiring manager. Recruiter told me "no news is good news and he will be in touch in a week or so either way". Heard nothing.
3)Was called about a role for a well known German food retailer based in Atherstone (obvious if you know) but when put to the company I was not taken forward.
4)Applied for a job at another part of the public sector who wanted someone to do 3rd line/infrastructure with an understanding of SQL. Tried to contact them multiple times to verify what their idea of "understanding" was but cound't get through. Applied anyway due to time constraints and got an interview. Turned out they wanted someone bordering on a DBA (which I am not) - so waste of a day which could have been solved if they answered the phone!
5)Interviewed for a role at a small IT Managed services company who are looking to expand and wanted someone who may not have all the experience but wanted to learn, recruiter seemed to think I would get offered the role (as he had the feedback for all interviewees). The company MD then was unreachable for a few weeks (apparently they had a big outage at a customer, then he had personal issues, then he was in London without his phone, then the recruiter was off sick etc etc - not sure I believe it all tbh). Then finally call the recruiter who had a conference call with MD that day. Get a call back later saying due the the customer outage they have had to compensate the customer and can no longer afford to take anyone on. Thats either a) bks or b) they were trying to expand without the finances in place to actually sustain it. They are currently re-advertising for "junior" roles so obviously no freeze on recruitment.
6)I was offered a job with a well known clothing retailer in their infrastructure projects office. Offered me over 3.5k below current salary, as although they thought I was a good fit there were gaps in my experience (fair enough) but due to the commute being worse than my current one told them I couldn't take it at that wage. HR girl was going to come back to me after speaking to hiring manager to see if there was any leeway. I assume not as heard nothing for over a week.
7) Had several voicemails from companies that have no role to offer me but want me on their books. Had another ring me who hadn't even read my CV just rang me on the keyword search (she actually said "I need to go through your CV really") as the job was a junior level IT Support which she tried to sell me was worth the 9k pay drop as it was for a company that provides IT to Rolls Royce. No thanks.
So I am back to square one. I have only a month left on probation at current role where afterwards it will effectively go from a 1 week notice period to 3 month, so I suspect it will be harder after this to find something as most companies seem to wince when they asked for my notice period (explaining although 3 months I'm in probation). Also, job adverts seem to be a bit on the thin side in my search area at the minute so not going well!
I left my previous job at the end of April as there was no real progression left in the role (I had been waiting for over a year for them to advertise the next job above from someone who left however they then pinched this post to use elsewhere). I'd been there 5 years doing the same role, doing a about 30-40%+ of the role above anyway.
This new role has turned out not to be the job sold to me and the red tape processes and panic at making any improvements or changes are worse than my previous Public Sector job so I am looking again. Also their idea of their personal development is you will have everything dictated to you they want you to work on and your own development is an afterthought. For example you have to be a "platform owner" of something. Other people in my team (who are windows/Directory services roles same as mine) have NetIQ IiManager, Exchange/o365 and Sharepoint. My platform ownership is DNS (which primarily is on Linux). So I am expected to know the ins and outs of how it works and be responsible for it but don't have the rights/power to over-rule the linux team and start messing with it, even if I was hot on linux which I am not!)
Placed my CV out there on a couple of job sites and also applied for various roles
1)Got a call out the blue beginning of August from a recruiter about a role at a small IT company who weren't sure if they wanted someone experienced or lower down the food chain but were going to put me forward - heard nothing since.
2)Applied for a role via a well known IT agency, who put me forward and I had a telephone interview with the hiring manager. Recruiter told me "no news is good news and he will be in touch in a week or so either way". Heard nothing.
3)Was called about a role for a well known German food retailer based in Atherstone (obvious if you know) but when put to the company I was not taken forward.
4)Applied for a job at another part of the public sector who wanted someone to do 3rd line/infrastructure with an understanding of SQL. Tried to contact them multiple times to verify what their idea of "understanding" was but cound't get through. Applied anyway due to time constraints and got an interview. Turned out they wanted someone bordering on a DBA (which I am not) - so waste of a day which could have been solved if they answered the phone!
5)Interviewed for a role at a small IT Managed services company who are looking to expand and wanted someone who may not have all the experience but wanted to learn, recruiter seemed to think I would get offered the role (as he had the feedback for all interviewees). The company MD then was unreachable for a few weeks (apparently they had a big outage at a customer, then he had personal issues, then he was in London without his phone, then the recruiter was off sick etc etc - not sure I believe it all tbh). Then finally call the recruiter who had a conference call with MD that day. Get a call back later saying due the the customer outage they have had to compensate the customer and can no longer afford to take anyone on. Thats either a) b
ks or b) they were trying to expand without the finances in place to actually sustain it. They are currently re-advertising for "junior" roles so obviously no freeze on recruitment.6)I was offered a job with a well known clothing retailer in their infrastructure projects office. Offered me over 3.5k below current salary, as although they thought I was a good fit there were gaps in my experience (fair enough) but due to the commute being worse than my current one told them I couldn't take it at that wage. HR girl was going to come back to me after speaking to hiring manager to see if there was any leeway. I assume not as heard nothing for over a week.
7) Had several voicemails from companies that have no role to offer me but want me on their books. Had another ring me who hadn't even read my CV just rang me on the keyword search (she actually said "I need to go through your CV really") as the job was a junior level IT Support which she tried to sell me was worth the 9k pay drop as it was for a company that provides IT to Rolls Royce. No thanks.
So I am back to square one. I have only a month left on probation at current role where afterwards it will effectively go from a 1 week notice period to 3 month, so I suspect it will be harder after this to find something as most companies seem to wince when they asked for my notice period (explaining although 3 months I'm in probation). Also, job adverts seem to be a bit on the thin side in my search area at the minute so not going well!
firstly thanks for joining this chat. at least you are in a job so have money coming in whilst you look for a new job. its far far harder now to find work whether in or out of work not sure it makes much difference anymore.
on no.6 above when you say the HR girl was looking "leeway" on the money. Ive worked at a few places where money was always apparently many a sticking issue with various items of expense such as pay rises/salaries YET those same companies never seemed to bat an eyelid in paying for hundreds of "delegates" (read=employees) to fly out to far flung parts of europe for so called conferences that ight last 3 or 4 days whist the rest of us grunts stayed exactly where we was to do the actual "work" back at base. drove me nuts. we had one guy offer to fly to glasgow and back in one day at a cost of about £200 all in to visit a wholesale customer with a strong possibility of bringing in an additional £170,000 of business. Can you believe that he was told theres "no money in the pot" ! You couldnt make it up. The last overseas conference with taxi's meals flights transfers insurance lost man hours back at the office while 400 key people were off galavanting in paris or madrid etc hotel rooms venue costs etc must have made this guys £200 trip to bonnie scotland look like a couple of pence relatively speaking. Boils my urea the way big companies mismanage their money like this. We also spent a small fortune on diversity policies and culture etc with colourful leaflets and cards. Just to me one big waste of cash.
the job i applied for in July readvertised it for a 3rd time yesterday on the Indeed website- i really dont understand what that company is playing at or why they do this. are they simply building up a pool of talent to keep on ice if they suddenly need them? who knows but I doubt it......
another company I applied to in Feb 2018 still to this day advertises the exact same position every month and now we are almost into October so nigh on 8 months - the adverts still up!
Personally I think because the job market is broken in the UK those that really want work would greatly benefit from some fresh regulation of the industry in terms of outlawing the readvertising of jobs that have been filled, adverts for fake or non-existent positions, CV "gathering" by deceit, not giving feedback to each and every applicant who at least made it to interview stage all so applicants should have confidence that when they see a vacancy, it is genuine and if they go to the time and trouble of tailoring their cover letter and CV then that applicant deserves a response and where found in breach big fines are slapped on these companies and agencies.
on no.6 above when you say the HR girl was looking "leeway" on the money. Ive worked at a few places where money was always apparently many a sticking issue with various items of expense such as pay rises/salaries YET those same companies never seemed to bat an eyelid in paying for hundreds of "delegates" (read=employees) to fly out to far flung parts of europe for so called conferences that ight last 3 or 4 days whist the rest of us grunts stayed exactly where we was to do the actual "work" back at base. drove me nuts. we had one guy offer to fly to glasgow and back in one day at a cost of about £200 all in to visit a wholesale customer with a strong possibility of bringing in an additional £170,000 of business. Can you believe that he was told theres "no money in the pot" ! You couldnt make it up. The last overseas conference with taxi's meals flights transfers insurance lost man hours back at the office while 400 key people were off galavanting in paris or madrid etc hotel rooms venue costs etc must have made this guys £200 trip to bonnie scotland look like a couple of pence relatively speaking. Boils my urea the way big companies mismanage their money like this. We also spent a small fortune on diversity policies and culture etc with colourful leaflets and cards. Just to me one big waste of cash.
the job i applied for in July readvertised it for a 3rd time yesterday on the Indeed website- i really dont understand what that company is playing at or why they do this. are they simply building up a pool of talent to keep on ice if they suddenly need them? who knows but I doubt it......
another company I applied to in Feb 2018 still to this day advertises the exact same position every month and now we are almost into October so nigh on 8 months - the adverts still up!
Personally I think because the job market is broken in the UK those that really want work would greatly benefit from some fresh regulation of the industry in terms of outlawing the readvertising of jobs that have been filled, adverts for fake or non-existent positions, CV "gathering" by deceit, not giving feedback to each and every applicant who at least made it to interview stage all so applicants should have confidence that when they see a vacancy, it is genuine and if they go to the time and trouble of tailoring their cover letter and CV then that applicant deserves a response and where found in breach big fines are slapped on these companies and agencies.
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Sunday 30th September 11:38
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