Trials of Finding New Job

[ToothbrushMan]

just registered and applied with RM anyway for some seasonal work. pays just enough to keep paying the mortgage......

[ToothbrushMan]

applied for one post but boy how painful is the online application. all for £7.83 an hour. FFS.

I clicked apply then saw another vacancy in the same local area and went to apply for that then gave up as it wasnt letting me use my existing profile to just click apply (like multi apply) and I wasnt going to go through repeating myself again and ticking all the boxes - this is what makes finding work so bloody frustrating. and half the time you hoop jump and never hear a word back.

painful that was and heaven help us if that data ever got out in the open because they literally ask for every bit of personal data on you. I wonder if you get such questions if you are applying for the CEO role? scary.

[ToothbrushMan]

funkyrobot said:

ToothbrushMan said:

applied for one post but boy how painful is the online application. all for £7.83 an hour. FFS.

I clicked apply then saw another vacancy in the same local area and went to apply for that then gave up as it wasnt letting me use my existing profile to just click apply (like multi apply) and I wasnt going to go through repeating myself again and ticking all the boxes - this is what makes finding work so bloody frustrating. and half the time you hoop jump and never hear a word back.

painful that was and heaven help us if that data ever got out in the open because they literally ask for every bit of personal data on you. I wonder if you get such questions if you are applying for the CEO role? scary.

The application I did the other day that resulted in the phone interview today was painful. That is 7 odd quid an hour too. They want me in on Monday to do a two hour assessment now.

The application went into great detail, but didnt ask for a covering letter. Then, after adding all of the info in, the person who did my phone interview today asked me questions based on my application. All that time spent and I still got asked things like 'do you currrently work' today.

For Monday's interview, I need passport, proof of NI, proof I can work in the UK etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for a blood and urine sample at the assessment.

mate.....your last line just made me laugh out loud. brilliant. ending the week on a sort of high.

lets keep going though eh........we know it is not easy this job hunting lark.

heres one for you........i am tired of agencies ringing you up that youre already registered with yet colleagues of the person you have been dealing with at those same agencies rings you up but wants to cover old ground about your current situation and what youre looking for etc.....next time I get that I will say to them why not speak to such and such as he or she already knows all about me and its on file .

also today saw a role in the smoke which is the last place on earth I want to work in but the salary is 45-65k range so the cost of a season ticket can be covered easily. i had to find out the salary range for myself via google. i messaged this one agent who had posted the job on her profile on linkedin and asked what is the salary range - not had a peep out of her since ! its just pot luck it seems.

[ToothbrushMan]

evilmunkey said:

The only agency i use is Reed, for one reason, you can refine the filter to search only jobs advertised by the employer usualy resulting in better info and a direct link to the employers application site. cuts out a lot of usual agency bullst

useful tip that mate. cheers

[ToothbrushMan]

silent ninja said:

funkyrobot said:

creampuff said:

ToothbrushMan said:

I have just read an article on Linkedin stating that apparently 3 in 5 companies are struggling to find skilled workers to fill their vacancies. My mind cannot compute this.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06

It’s bullst.

There have never been more qualified and educated people than there are now.

It’s one of these things:
- There are skilled workers, but they want to pay them less than they are willing to work for
- There is genuinely nobody who has exactly the experience, but they can’t come to grips with the fact that even moderately intelligent people can figure out things for themselves, even when they haven’t done exactly that thing before
- They really just want to outsource the whole position to a low cost country like Bangladesh
- They don’t know what the job entails themselves, so they don’t know what to look for
- People lie on surveys or put down what they think the situation is rather than put down what they are actually doing
- They are clueless

Very true.

The company I am leaving has been acting bizarrely in the way they are searching for new staff. They won't pay good money, they want to hire juniors to do senior jobs, they will not speak to agencies, but will hire people who reside in different countries on the cheap (then moan when the work done is terrible), they turn down clever people because they are 'too much', and for some reason, if you know your stuff and query the way they do things, you are out of the door.

The amount of time I've spent working with buggy, crap software that doesn't match the spec is crazy. All because the dev team is too small and full of juniors. Oh yes, they also have more manager job titles than non manager job titles. Not sure how that works.

I can relate to all of this.

My Manager and other senior managers just don't understand the job - nor do they want to. Ultimately, they view the team as worker "cogs" that do stuff. They don't appreciate the detailed knowledge needed, time, skills, nor do they want to invest in these things. It's the old industrial culture overhanging - it does not work in today's world but the mindset persists.

For the last 5 years, my manager has been chewing out generalists. She hires them to do a specific job, which they obviously can't do to the standard needed because they don't have the skillset or experience. They struggle, eventually can't cope. She places blame on them, and forces them out. Four people have gone off for bullying and stress in the last 12 months alone (in a team of 14 that's pretty high) - yet senior management seem to ignore the common denominator and her awful track record of new hires.

I'm leaving in the next 2-3 months and can't wait to throw it in her face. I've had awesome 360 feedback, and have escaped her claws, but she's not allowed me to progress in to other roles so it's time for me to take matters in to my own hands (as I always have done - career progression is my responsibility not my employers). It will be the best conversation ever.

keep us posted silent ninja!

talking of not investing in things and you mentioned industrial culture etc......my last employer actually must have ended up spending a small fortune on what they called their "culture and diversity" division - no money for decent pay rises or some extra bonuses when put in silly hours but all of sudden we had plenty of money to spend on rampant self promotion about the company culture and "its beliefs" etc. utter bks it was - it all sounded very nice and flowery but had zero contribution to the workloads and the business. utterly pointless. they would send us (we had 25,000 globally) cards every month or two with culture "messages", they would say how things were in a company that had set up a new culture "helpline" for use by its employees. I was tempted to ring them at one point and ask "what do you do around here exactly?" They pumped some serious money into that new department but IMHO it was all about being flash to outsiders - look how caring we are of our employees, look at our diversity etc. total smoke and mirrors. an unnecessary business expense. they even ran seminars and course in far flung overseas destinations for talks about it ! you couldnt make it up......

[ToothbrushMan]

be interesting to hear how the interview went today.

those registered with agencies - there was a time when they would chase you but now you have to chase them. i havent heard from some of mine ( i tihnk i am with about 6 or agencies) for months.

i am also asking them for advice on how i can improve my prospects today so that will be interesting to hear what solid advice I receive whihc I will post up on here. I fully expect to receive no new advice - i really do think that finding a job these days is down to the person wanting the job as I hear very few people finding work through job centres or agencies (even those that only deal in non skilled or low paid manual labour).

I cant believe that after 8 months now I havent even landed a job putting tins on a shelf ! I am focused and doing all the right things to find work but its not happening.

[ToothbrushMan]

James_B said:

ToothbrushMan said:

Went to sign on today as usual in between the job hunting......appointment was first thing on a group session (a talk for half an hour about something I dont know what). anyway I get there early and wait until 10 minutes past my allotted time then I was going to be signed by my usual advisor (no group session afterall) I asked whats happened to the group session? The advisors response "the provider has not turned up".

I wonder if the provider was sanctioned?

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Thursday 13th September 10:06

That makes no sense at all. They are providing a service, they may be let go if they are an employee, or not have their contract renewed if they are an external supplier, but sanctioning is completely different; it’s for the unemployed who are unable to comply with even the very low level of effort and attentiveness that they are required to show. Having a face-to-face meeting every week or two and evidencing a serious search for work is very little to ask, and turning up reliably for these few meeting should be a given.

i know - it was said tongue firmly in cheek.

[ToothbrushMan]

funkyrobot said:

ToothbrushMan said:

be interesting to hear how the interview went today.

those registered with agencies - there was a time when they would chase you but now you have to chase them. i havent heard from some of mine ( i tihnk i am with about 6 or agencies) for months.

I cant believe that after 8 months now I havent even landed a job putting tins on a shelf ! I am focused and doing all the right things to find work but its not happening.

What a monumental waste of time that interview was.

sorry to hear that mate. how annoying. if you are interviewed its like youre applying for the role of CEO with all the daft question sometimes but then you meet people in jobs like this and you gotta ask yourself how did you get the job here or how are you still employed here if you cant even do the job properly?


i've got some video interview questions coming from an insurance company - each taking up to 25 minutes. so my fate is probably to be decided by a piece of software - its bulls*it. its not even for a particularly high flying job but these days all common sense is set aside as more companies stick to these barmly ways of sifting through applications.

a position elsewhere that i applied for mid july and interviewed for (cracking interview where I didnt slip up on any of the questions and thought it was in the bag) has popped up again today on the job boards. I honestly do not know what these companies are looking for. 100% perfection.

I got word on a position in Bristol. after some tooing and froing with the agency I discovered they will consider me doing 2 or 3 days a week at the Bristol office and 2 or 3 days a week at their Bham office (where I live). Pay is good enough to cover the travel costs as I would work it to do 2 days a week in Bristol 3 days in Bham by hook or by crook. either drive down or train it. Not ideal and certainly not something I would do for long. I just need to try and get it to pay bills but keep on looking for something local 5 days a week. If i get an interview I'll put the smile on and try and work it but theres no way I am moving to Brizzol.

[ToothbrushMan]

guys here following the thread might also find my new thread about national min wage and OTE.

i felt it needed its own thread rather than get ost in this one.......

[ToothbrushMan]

funkyrobot said:

ToothbrushMan said:

sorry to hear that mate. how annoying. if you are interviewed its like youre applying for the role of CEO with all the daft question sometimes but then you meet people in jobs like this and you gotta ask yourself how did you get the job here or how are you still employed here if you cant even do the job properly?


i've got some video interview questions coming from an insurance company - each taking up to 25 minutes. so my fate is probably to be decided by a piece of software - its bulls*it. its not even for a particularly high flying job but these days all common sense is set aside as more companies stick to these barmly ways of sifting through applications.

a position elsewhere that i applied for mid july and interviewed for (cracking interview where I didnt slip up on any of the questions and thought it was in the bag) has popped up again today on the job boards. I honestly do not know what these companies are looking for. 100% perfection.

I got word on a position in Bristol. after some tooing and froing with the agency I discovered they will consider me doing 2 or 3 days a week at the Bristol office and 2 or 3 days a week at their Bham office (where I live). Pay is good enough to cover the travel costs as I would work it to do 2 days a week in Bristol 3 days in Bham by hook or by crook. either drive down or train it. Not ideal and certainly not something I would do for long. I just need to try and get it to pay bills but keep on looking for something local 5 days a week. If i get an interview I'll put the smile on and try and work it but theres no way I am moving to Brizzol.

Thanks. I hope you get on ok with the latest application.

I have had a response to my interview yesterday. Apparently, I am a great fit for the role, but someone else is better suited.

I've asked for more detail and some feedback. Will see if it materialises.

yes i got that same response too last month to a vacancy i interviewed for so they found somebody else more suited. and guess what......the same position is back up on the job boards again. boils my piss. months this company has been advertising and still they cant make a decision.

[ToothbrushMan]

flooble - i think youre right mate that company probably wanted to keep the gap in their senior team hush hush hence not advertised.


part of me if now wondering if my options are beginning to become more and more limited and a tiny voice in my head is thinking of going back to setting y own business up.

i see these you tube videos and tv shows of guys with nice little units working on and repairing cars and im thinking that it looks good and if you are up to the work you will always be busy. i think welding of cars is a dying specialism (the reserve of classics) and was toying with maybe getting into that (not over plating but proper cut out and weld in new). aiming at the modern classic market of resto work. never welded in my life which makes that tricky LOL.

[ToothbrushMan]

funkyrobot said:

Just applying for a job at a supermarket doing the delivery driving.

Two fields on the online form have caught my eye:

1. Current salary
2. Minimum salary sought

What the hell are you supposed to put in the latter?

i think in some states in the USA these questions are now prohibited and i can see why - i hate them. that information is used to benchmark your worth to your old employer IMHO but i think when applying for a new job it shouldnt at least not at the early stages on the process have bugger all to do with the new company. thats private. If you tell them you was on £50k and this job pays up to 30K youre history as they will think the role is too junior for you or that the pay is much lower so you will get bored of the job and quickly look to move again.

salary sought - i think this is (and call me mr cynical) one of those dangerous questions where being honest in your answer could actually harm your chances of the CV and I dare say in many circs may mean that answered "incorreclty" would end you CV straight to the "unsuccessful" pile. why ? I truly believe that companies know what they will pay up to already so lets says its £25k. you put down salary sought of £18k are you at risk of getting the job but being offered £18 (to keep you sweet) whilst saving them approx. 7k? if you put down say £28k would be mad because it tells the employer you havent read the salary range in the advert. telling them you seek the top £25k in their range might put you in the red zone as they could have 100 applications from other people who have put £22,23, 24k so they could look at you as an expense they can get around.

i also dislike those online applications that ask these question but only allow you to enter a numeric answer - so you cant say "competitive" for salary sought or "market fair for the role" etc......they want to tie you to a figure and that boils my piss.

the market is so tough today though I just swallow my pride and to even try to get to an interview I have been putting down much lower figures that are true. I dont care. it is likely to be one of the only ways to the grab attention of the employer in a sea of applicants unless youre really into a specialised industry I know its not right but thats my view. .

in the same way as recruitment "experts" tell you to match your CV to the job I say match your salary to it too ! If it gets you the job fine - it worked and rightly so move on if you find something that is back up to your old salary level (dog eat dog) but I fear few employers these days fall for this. Quite where you would stand a couple of moths into a job if they find out you was earning much more than you said you was in your old job whether they would have grounds to dismiss you. I dont know. its hardly gross negligence but they might look at the moral hazard of you lying. Adain at the moment these are chances I am prepared to rake as I dont plan on sticking around in a low paid job for long enough for them to ever know the truth.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Wednesday 19th September 21:36

[ToothbrushMan]

just to add to the above working in insurance and financial services I actually think that on one role I applied for with a global insurer I botched my chances becuase when asked a) what was my last salary and b) what salary are you looking for her they took umbridhe to my answers which were a) i dont want to disclose that information and b) i said I wanted a competitive salary for the duties and responsibilites of the role (so I didnt want to get into bald figures with them) and I reckon that because they didnt know from that where to position me in a sea of other applicants who probably did reveal their figures that this led to my CV getting binned off. I wasnt rude or anything but I didn go on to say that I would talk about salary if they felt that I was the person they wanted for the role but not to talk salary first as nobody at that stage knows if I am right for the role. Essentially they want fully experieneced peolle cheap and I dont do cheap. If they want somebody with experience that fits the bill I want the right rewards for it and not undersell myself.

The employer was Aviva (a huge carrier in the UK) and this ties back to an earlier post where I said I was unsuccessful as other had been put through to the next round - yet earlier this week the exact same job was re=advertised ! You couldnt make it up !

i cant post it here for fear of breach of copyright but you might have seen a great Meme on the internet which shows a pair of smug looking HR robots behind a desk twizzling their pens with the caption above "We're pretty sure we wont hire you - but not so sure that we will stop wasting your time".......

[ToothbrushMan]

chunder27 said:

Why 5 years EXACTLY?

That makes no sense at alL!

mad isnt it. 4 you can understand as its too little maybe but 6 not being acceptable? it must be 5. how churlish can the employer be? maybe they are hoping that the bod with 5 years experience got that straight from school and will be no older than 21? 22 years old ? your too old LOL.

I honestly do not know how these decisions are made or the logic applied.

to anybody looking for work still I found an article online from Forbes magazine which said that the system for finding work is broken. we know that anyway but it had one responder saying they stopped doing the endless thankless cranky no face online applications as they were sick of hearing nothing back after spending an age tailoring their CV or cover letter or "registering their details" with the employer in order to be able to apply online and the rejections where there seemed to be the perfect "fit" (sorry chaps I hate that word companies use today for whether they like you or not). The approach was different and involved sending out pain letters - id never heard of the term. Google the term and have a read. anyway after doing this technique she got 2 offers in the bag fairly quickly.

I am planning to try this approach this coming week and will post up over the coming weeks the responses (fingers crossed if I get any).

you do have to stand out from the hundreds of other applications. maybe this will work for you.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Sunday 23 September 11:33

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Sunday 23 September 11:34

[ToothbrushMan]

i think ive tried all the tricks including the dumbing down of my cv. still doesnt work half the time.......plenty of basic driving jobs involving handball and you get passed over as unsuccessful - but you havent even got me in for interview!!!

[ToothbrushMan]

im going for a role in"Culture change and Diversity" - these departments seem to be popping up all over the place just lately.......another faddy marketing ploy?

[ToothbrushMan]

if I could weld I think I would set up on my own repairing the plethora of "modern classics" we have out there where good quality welding seems hard to find......plenty of cowboys who will not cut out the rot and carefully weld in new steel, they just seem ok at tacking plates over the rust! Whats the point of that..........I think the money could be quite lucrative for this service as well. Id love my own little cottage business with a unit and working at my own pace.

I am not sure what the best route to take might be as I have heard of MIG and TIG.....I could at least look into college courses maybe???

Wonder if the state will pay for a course?

[ToothbrushMan]

Vyse said:

I was called by a recruiter the other day about a job from a pharma company. When I looked on the pharma companies websites own job section the job wasn't listed. Why are some jobs listed on the companies own website and some jobs given to recruiters to sort out?

Are the ones given to the recruiter the real jobs and the ones on the website already taken by internal candidates but the job must be seen as being advertised?

glad its not just me mate. Ive noticed this and the reason I noticed it was because I am very wary about these online applications so if I see a vacancy for arguments sake a Ford dealership in a nearby town but the application takes you off to an agency site to apply- I have been looking at the dealerships own careers or vacancies section on their website to check or apply direct and many are not shown.

I do wonder how many "jobs" are phoney. Is it recruitment agencies scraping the barrel for more CV's to top up their database "stock" by attracting new applicants by simply posing as the employers agent ?

I do wonder. For jobs that I can take or leave if its with an agency I have not heard of before then I pass.

[ToothbrushMan]

Thesprucegoose said:

ToothbrushMan said:

if I could weld I think I would set up on my own repairing the plethora of "modern classics" we have out there where good quality welding seems hard to find......plenty of cowboys who will not cut out the rot and carefully weld in new steel, they just seem ok at tacking plates over the rust! Whats the point of that..........I think the money could be quite lucrative for this service as well. Id love my own little cottage business with a unit and working at my own pace.

I am not sure what the best route to take might be as I have heard of MIG and TIG.....I could at least look into college courses maybe???

Wonder if the state will pay for a course?

Where i live, near uttoxeter they were offering free (might have to pay if fail, unclear)welding courses with a job assessment after 5 weeks, as local manufacturing company can't get enough.

very interesting - and in fact I see my highly skilled jobcentre "advisor" tomorrow morning so I will ask them the question and see what reaction I get!

I do tire of hearing about loads of employers who report that they "cannot find the staff"........where are these illusive employers with these vacancies why cant they find staff?
are the roles paying crap minimum wage?
are they prepared to train people up?
are they only seeking pre-trained and qualified staff?
is it that the recruiter they think is doing them a great service not doing a very good job at sending them the right candidates for interviews or sifting out the best applicants or relying on recruitment artificial intelligence in the initial stages?

Maybe we should put up "Job Wanted" posts on here stating areas of work sought/skills, town and any bosses on here with their heads screwed on can PM us and help us out? Even short term assignments........cut out the middleman (the agents) and their fees.

Personally I would be happy working as a van driver for £10 an hour full time - based in Birmingham. Anybody?

[ToothbrushMan]

wonder how those that got their degrees are finding it now finding a job.