Trials of Finding New Job
Discussion
Flooble said:
Vyse said:
Sometime recruiters ask you to fill in consent forms when they are ready to submit your application to the employer. Can I assume recruiters that don't ask me to fill in a GDPR or consent form are either advertising duff jobs or they are not planning to submit my app?
They may be claiming "legitimate interest" as their cover for using your details. I am not a lawyer so have no idea if they could use that.But you can probably determine the "better" and "worse" agents from their approach. There's always a danger with the usual anonymous adverts and recruiters stealing each others adverts that you end up being submitted multiple times for the same role and blocked by all.
Sometimes they copy an ad without knowing who the company is, they wait for calls hoping to get someone who has applied for that role with another agency, so they can dig for information, like who the company is, what their interview process was, who interviewed you, etc etc etc. So that whilst your waiting to hear back from your interview, they're contacting that company with details of their own candidates, basically screwing you over.
They're very good at being manipulative, but you can see what they're doing IF you step back and try to look at it from a 3rd party perspective.
lyonspride said:
Flooble said:
Vyse said:
Sometime recruiters ask you to fill in consent forms when they are ready to submit your application to the employer. Can I assume recruiters that don't ask me to fill in a GDPR or consent form are either advertising duff jobs or they are not planning to submit my app?
They may be claiming "legitimate interest" as their cover for using your details. I am not a lawyer so have no idea if they could use that.But you can probably determine the "better" and "worse" agents from their approach. There's always a danger with the usual anonymous adverts and recruiters stealing each others adverts that you end up being submitted multiple times for the same role and blocked by all.
Sometimes they copy an ad without knowing who the company is, they wait for calls hoping to get someone who has applied for that role with another agency, so they can dig for information, like who the company is, what their interview process was, who interviewed you, etc etc etc. So that whilst your waiting to hear back from your interview, they're contacting that company with details of their own candidates, basically screwing you over.
They're very good at being manipulative, but you can see what they're doing IF you step back and try to look at it from a 3rd party perspective.
chunder27 said:
Fella, take it from someone who has moved from job to job countless times to my annoyance and desire to find something better.
It is not you, often this will be internal stuff. I went for an interview a month or so ago for a role that I could do yes, but was not really specifically qualified for if you looked at my experience. Mentioned this to the agency and asked them to be very specific in the questions to the employer so as not to waste my time.
Even mentioned in interview rather than trying to pull off a Houdini I can do all this stuff act. And they knew this and were happy to train (they said).
And obviously did not get the role, I was clearly the token outside applicant for an internal role, should never have been interviewed, and next time will refuse the interview if the same things happen.
The things agencies, companies will do are out of your control. Take it on the chin, ask for feedback (it will usually be inane non committal crap, but make them work) and move on.
This totally. Just had exactly the same situation arise for 2 jobs . I had 2 interviews in the same day for 2 roles. Both the same thing as mentioned above. One came back within 3 days to say I was unsuccessful but gave glowing feedback, 2nd one has taken 3 weeks to comeback to me to say the same but also glowing feedback. Both feel where given internally and I was interviewed to "make it look legit"It is not you, often this will be internal stuff. I went for an interview a month or so ago for a role that I could do yes, but was not really specifically qualified for if you looked at my experience. Mentioned this to the agency and asked them to be very specific in the questions to the employer so as not to waste my time.
Even mentioned in interview rather than trying to pull off a Houdini I can do all this stuff act. And they knew this and were happy to train (they said).
And obviously did not get the role, I was clearly the token outside applicant for an internal role, should never have been interviewed, and next time will refuse the interview if the same things happen.
The things agencies, companies will do are out of your control. Take it on the chin, ask for feedback (it will usually be inane non committal crap, but make them work) and move on.
After about 7 interviews and various dealings with recruitment company / agencies in the last month I have to say some are the spawn of the devil.
I was approached for a role to which sounded great, I had no experience in the industry but it was something I fancied doing. I said yes put me forward what's the worst that could happen.
3 days later I rang them to see what was going on. Apparently the company had already rejected me (no idea when) So when the recruitment woman she said its strange because you had already been told no and why didn't you tell me you had applied. I had asked when I applied as I've found with the recruitment / Agency people they NEVER tell you the company until you agree to everything. I said I have no idea as far as I knew I had never applied for them. They where really rude and unprofessional so told them to remove my details and jog on!
Another company I dealt with put a role forward and I knew the company feeling I would be happy to work for them. Wouldn't disclose wages..... Asked me what I was on and what I wanted etc then I get the job spec the morning of the interview showing said wages. £3k LESS than what I am on or want. I called and asked if this was a mistake as realistically it was £200 a month less than what I am on now. The reply was no its only a couple of coffees................
I said it best be a joke as it is not financially viable to do that and irresponsible for her to ignore what I said and expecting me to waste my time going or the companies time going when I wont take the pay cut. I said to cancel the interview as its a waste of time. I was flabbergasted at the attitude.
However I did deal with a guy from a company who was brilliant really helpful and we spoke for around 2 hours, he knew the role, the company and went through all my questions, was super helpful. From this went for the interview and he worked with me after the interview. Sadly the company didn't answer what I needed to know and I had to decline but he was brilliant.
Job hunting these days is full of lines, promises that are not kept and frustration.
I was approached for a role to which sounded great, I had no experience in the industry but it was something I fancied doing. I said yes put me forward what's the worst that could happen.
3 days later I rang them to see what was going on. Apparently the company had already rejected me (no idea when) So when the recruitment woman she said its strange because you had already been told no and why didn't you tell me you had applied. I had asked when I applied as I've found with the recruitment / Agency people they NEVER tell you the company until you agree to everything. I said I have no idea as far as I knew I had never applied for them. They where really rude and unprofessional so told them to remove my details and jog on!
Another company I dealt with put a role forward and I knew the company feeling I would be happy to work for them. Wouldn't disclose wages..... Asked me what I was on and what I wanted etc then I get the job spec the morning of the interview showing said wages. £3k LESS than what I am on or want. I called and asked if this was a mistake as realistically it was £200 a month less than what I am on now. The reply was no its only a couple of coffees................
I said it best be a joke as it is not financially viable to do that and irresponsible for her to ignore what I said and expecting me to waste my time going or the companies time going when I wont take the pay cut. I said to cancel the interview as its a waste of time. I was flabbergasted at the attitude.
However I did deal with a guy from a company who was brilliant really helpful and we spoke for around 2 hours, he knew the role, the company and went through all my questions, was super helpful. From this went for the interview and he worked with me after the interview. Sadly the company didn't answer what I needed to know and I had to decline but he was brilliant.
Job hunting these days is full of lines, promises that are not kept and frustration.
If you do it a lot you get used to some aspects of it.
You will rarely get calls about jobs on a Friday, that is office junior day, where you will get a call but it will be a "we have your details on our database, and we would juts like to see if you are still looking" Basically trawling for information.
I never give agents details of my previous jobs or where I am working, that is pointless as it is on my CV, and if you work in specific industries as I do, you will know the big players anyway by location and job description so the cloak and dagger bull is pointless anyway so I just throw the company name at them and tell them to get on with it.
I remember a call from a guy and he was just trawling for info, I asked him, "is this call concerning an actual job?" And he got all offish, telling me without your background I cant help you find something new, and wouldn't answer me directly.
Some of them are utter parasites, but they are a necessary evil sadly.
You will rarely get calls about jobs on a Friday, that is office junior day, where you will get a call but it will be a "we have your details on our database, and we would juts like to see if you are still looking" Basically trawling for information.
I never give agents details of my previous jobs or where I am working, that is pointless as it is on my CV, and if you work in specific industries as I do, you will know the big players anyway by location and job description so the cloak and dagger bull is pointless anyway so I just throw the company name at them and tell them to get on with it.
I remember a call from a guy and he was just trawling for info, I asked him, "is this call concerning an actual job?" And he got all offish, telling me without your background I cant help you find something new, and wouldn't answer me directly.
Some of them are utter parasites, but they are a necessary evil sadly.
OK just returned from the fortnightly signing on. this is what gets me too........
i turn up mins early then kept waiting for 20 mins in an office full of civil servants all sat at empty desks typing the odd few things on their computers......I just observed a few while I waited and they kept looking up looking around like they were just filling time........one of them could have seen me and id be on my way! lets face it i'm not there to get expert job hunting advice. not in the job centre LOL.
anyway that's not the best bit. I noticed my next door neighbour was also waiting to be seen and when a member of staff approached him I overheard her say to him "youll have to wait because you were late he needs to see people that were on time" my neighbour lets out some low volume grunt. I get up when called and have 20 min grilling about my job search etc. When I leave my neighbour has already gone! I went straight home and his car was back on his driveway......he must have been called pretty quickly after I was called and just signed and left with no grilling. maybe he is on UC but surely you still have to look for work and provide a job search yet he was armed with nothing. I would describe him as a slob.
so how do folk like this get away with being so laisse fayre? I go in and get grilled for 20 mins. Ok for all I know he could have been sanctioned for being late but I doubt it I am assuming he will still get his benefits. if there was a sanction he would probably still be there arguing with them.
i turn up mins early then kept waiting for 20 mins in an office full of civil servants all sat at empty desks typing the odd few things on their computers......I just observed a few while I waited and they kept looking up looking around like they were just filling time........one of them could have seen me and id be on my way! lets face it i'm not there to get expert job hunting advice. not in the job centre LOL.
anyway that's not the best bit. I noticed my next door neighbour was also waiting to be seen and when a member of staff approached him I overheard her say to him "youll have to wait because you were late he needs to see people that were on time" my neighbour lets out some low volume grunt. I get up when called and have 20 min grilling about my job search etc. When I leave my neighbour has already gone! I went straight home and his car was back on his driveway......he must have been called pretty quickly after I was called and just signed and left with no grilling. maybe he is on UC but surely you still have to look for work and provide a job search yet he was armed with nothing. I would describe him as a slob.
so how do folk like this get away with being so laisse fayre? I go in and get grilled for 20 mins. Ok for all I know he could have been sanctioned for being late but I doubt it I am assuming he will still get his benefits. if there was a sanction he would probably still be there arguing with them.
i think being asked what your current or last salary was should be outlawed.
they are quick to ask you this yet try to avoid telling you the salary or range of salary for the new job........boils my urine.
i think this cost me a job that I had a great interview for in July but when asked what I used to earn I said I was not prepared to divulge that at this early stage but if I was receive an offer I would be happy to disclose that information. they said thats fine then asked me what salary was I looking for......I said I am happy to negotiate on salary if I am the right person for the job - I even said that I didnt want to get the job simply because I was happy to take a lower salary than the next person. I think they might have been offended by that response but balls to them.
they are quick to ask you this yet try to avoid telling you the salary or range of salary for the new job........boils my urine.
i think this cost me a job that I had a great interview for in July but when asked what I used to earn I said I was not prepared to divulge that at this early stage but if I was receive an offer I would be happy to disclose that information. they said thats fine then asked me what salary was I looking for......I said I am happy to negotiate on salary if I am the right person for the job - I even said that I didnt want to get the job simply because I was happy to take a lower salary than the next person. I think they might have been offended by that response but balls to them.
My DWP lady is lovely, we generally sit around nattering about our kids & what they’ve been getting up to.
I have another appointment tomorrow but with any luck it’ll be the last one as I had an interview today which seemed to go quite well.....
I do however need to find out about making up NI contributions as I delayed signing on for a couple of months, the buggers wouldn’t back date my JA either, apparently “I was in holiday for most of August” wasn’t a good enough reason for not applying for Jobseekers Allowance...
I have another appointment tomorrow but with any luck it’ll be the last one as I had an interview today which seemed to go quite well.....
I do however need to find out about making up NI contributions as I delayed signing on for a couple of months, the buggers wouldn’t back date my JA either, apparently “I was in holiday for most of August” wasn’t a good enough reason for not applying for Jobseekers Allowance...
Edited by DJFish on Thursday 11th October 15:25
ToothbrushMan said:
i think being asked what your current or last salary was should be outlawed.
they are quick to ask you this yet try to avoid telling you the salary or range of salary for the new job........boils my urine.
i think this cost me a job that I had a great interview for in July but when asked what I used to earn I said I was not prepared to divulge that at this early stage but if I was receive an offer I would be happy to disclose that information. they said thats fine then asked me what salary was I looking for......I said I am happy to negotiate on salary if I am the right person for the job - I even said that I didnt want to get the job simply because I was happy to take a lower salary than the next person. I think they might have been offended by that response but balls to them.
I recently declined a role at HSBC for this reason. Interviewer must have broached the subject three times. I said my salary is confidential but I'll give you a bracket. My next salary depends on a number of outcomes - flexibility, holidays, ability to work from home, autonomy, development opportunities, culture, location etc. Interviewer didn't get it. I went home and withdrew they are quick to ask you this yet try to avoid telling you the salary or range of salary for the new job........boils my urine.
i think this cost me a job that I had a great interview for in July but when asked what I used to earn I said I was not prepared to divulge that at this early stage but if I was receive an offer I would be happy to disclose that information. they said thats fine then asked me what salary was I looking for......I said I am happy to negotiate on salary if I am the right person for the job - I even said that I didnt want to get the job simply because I was happy to take a lower salary than the next person. I think they might have been offended by that response but balls to them.
It's like me asking a recruiter "what salary are you willing to pay me?" without sharing details of my CV except the headlines. They wouldn't know.
Flibble said:
Never signed on, but I've never heard anyone describe it as anything but horrible. Set up to make people fail maybe?
No, i've not found it too bad in the past..... The trouble is the staff have to deal with the worst of societies dole dossers and they become quite nasty as a result, they also have to deal with people who've lost higher paid jobs (and then ran out of money because of huge debts and a leased £60k BMW on the drive), these people are just a nightmare, their attitude stinks, they don't like having to jump through hoops, they're self entitled and they're arrogant.If you go in and show your really looking for work and you speak to them like normal human beings, then it's normally a painless experience with the exception of security, who are just a bunch of c*nts.
Just thought I'd share my current situation.
As per an earlier post, I was made redundant and been looking for a while.
Former supplier I managed knew I was looking and had spoken to me about something but it didn't come off. Then they called me out of the blue as one of their customers was looking for someone. The role was similar to my previous one and my contact and the MD both thought I'd be ideal. I met my contact the following day for a catch up and more details and he agreed to pass my details on to their customer. This role isn't being advertised and the customer looks for recommendations first, so I'm trying not to get too excited.
My contact speaks to their customer a few days later, now 12 weeks later I'm still waiting. I'm left in limbo, there isn't anything similar around at the moment for me to focus on. It's like being a teenager again and waiting for a call from a girl and you keep checking your phone is working!
My contact has advised me the customer wants to speak to me but has been really busy and been off on holiday etc. They thought it would take a while but not this long. The customer still needs someone but clearly other things are more important at this time.
Left a message for my contact this morning, not heard back (they are available) and just emailed them and the MD just to try and get some information or failing that some closure.
As per an earlier post, I was made redundant and been looking for a while.
Former supplier I managed knew I was looking and had spoken to me about something but it didn't come off. Then they called me out of the blue as one of their customers was looking for someone. The role was similar to my previous one and my contact and the MD both thought I'd be ideal. I met my contact the following day for a catch up and more details and he agreed to pass my details on to their customer. This role isn't being advertised and the customer looks for recommendations first, so I'm trying not to get too excited.
My contact speaks to their customer a few days later, now 12 weeks later I'm still waiting. I'm left in limbo, there isn't anything similar around at the moment for me to focus on. It's like being a teenager again and waiting for a call from a girl and you keep checking your phone is working!
My contact has advised me the customer wants to speak to me but has been really busy and been off on holiday etc. They thought it would take a while but not this long. The customer still needs someone but clearly other things are more important at this time.
Left a message for my contact this morning, not heard back (they are available) and just emailed them and the MD just to try and get some information or failing that some closure.
theres many analogies I can think but maybe if you watch Eastenders and seen poor mug Billy Mitchell fawning over this Honey woman who in turn is being drooled over by some smarmy dentist guy. Bear with me. Club owner Mel has seen Billy being treated like sh*t and given the royal runaround by Honey and her advice to Billy was dont be a doormat. Let her go if she wants to go but dont lose any sleep or wish your life away thinking Honey will run into your arms.
Coming back to the earlier post about waiting by the phone for "the girl to text". Mate forget it. Seems employers are no longer moving as fast as they used to do even 5 or 10 years ago and I know its highly frustrating especially when a job is not even advertised, you are the perfect fit and you get recommended. You can easily get excited that you might avoid the painful process of applying with 300 other applicants if it went through the normal channels of being advertised, selected for interview etc.....
Youve made the necessary approached now forget about it Honestly because otherwise that one job will drive you mental. You will lose focus on applying for other roles. You need to keep searching, keep networking as best as possible, get those applications off but do not dwell on any one job - it saps your energy because you think its so perfect and its a long way to fall if they get back to you with the news you didnt want to hear (freeze on headcount, internal promotion has filled it, youre over-qualified, your under qualified, the role is too junior for you, the location is too far for you etc etc) Ive had them all over the last 6 months and its such a ballache.
Focus on the next one then the next one keep going but dont give this one "possible" job a second thought now unless they come back to you. Otherwise youll end up feeling a right mug like Billy with your hopes dashed!
Coming back to the earlier post about waiting by the phone for "the girl to text". Mate forget it. Seems employers are no longer moving as fast as they used to do even 5 or 10 years ago and I know its highly frustrating especially when a job is not even advertised, you are the perfect fit and you get recommended. You can easily get excited that you might avoid the painful process of applying with 300 other applicants if it went through the normal channels of being advertised, selected for interview etc.....
Youve made the necessary approached now forget about it Honestly because otherwise that one job will drive you mental. You will lose focus on applying for other roles. You need to keep searching, keep networking as best as possible, get those applications off but do not dwell on any one job - it saps your energy because you think its so perfect and its a long way to fall if they get back to you with the news you didnt want to hear (freeze on headcount, internal promotion has filled it, youre over-qualified, your under qualified, the role is too junior for you, the location is too far for you etc etc) Ive had them all over the last 6 months and its such a ballache.
Focus on the next one then the next one keep going but dont give this one "possible" job a second thought now unless they come back to you. Otherwise youll end up feeling a right mug like Billy with your hopes dashed!
ToothbrushMan said:
theres many analogies I can think but maybe if you watch Eastenders and seen poor mug Billy Mitchell fawning over this Honey woman who in turn is being drooled over by some smarmy dentist guy. Bear with me. Club owner Mel has seen Billy being treated like sh*t and given the royal runaround by Honey and her advice to Billy was dont be a doormat. Let her go if she wants to go but dont lose any sleep or wish your life away thinking Honey will run into your arms.
Coming back to the earlier post about waiting by the phone for "the girl to text". Mate forget it. Seems employers are no longer moving as fast as they used to do even 5 or 10 years ago and I know its highly frustrating especially when a job is not even advertised, you are the perfect fit and you get recommended. You can easily get excited that you might avoid the painful process of applying with 300 other applicants if it went through the normal channels of being advertised, selected for interview etc.....
Youve made the necessary approached now forget about it Honestly because otherwise that one job will drive you mental. You will lose focus on applying for other roles. You need to keep searching, keep networking as best as possible, get those applications off but do not dwell on any one job - it saps your energy because you think its so perfect and its a long way to fall if they get back to you with the news you didnt want to hear (freeze on headcount, internal promotion has filled it, youre over-qualified, your under qualified, the role is too junior for you, the location is too far for you etc etc) Ive had them all over the last 6 months and its such a ballache.
Focus on the next one then the next one keep going but dont give this one "possible" job a second thought now unless they come back to you. Otherwise youll end up feeling a right mug like Billy with your hopes dashed!
Thanks for the reply, don't worry just getting it off my chest. Been through it all before and got the t-shirt like you.Coming back to the earlier post about waiting by the phone for "the girl to text". Mate forget it. Seems employers are no longer moving as fast as they used to do even 5 or 10 years ago and I know its highly frustrating especially when a job is not even advertised, you are the perfect fit and you get recommended. You can easily get excited that you might avoid the painful process of applying with 300 other applicants if it went through the normal channels of being advertised, selected for interview etc.....
Youve made the necessary approached now forget about it Honestly because otherwise that one job will drive you mental. You will lose focus on applying for other roles. You need to keep searching, keep networking as best as possible, get those applications off but do not dwell on any one job - it saps your energy because you think its so perfect and its a long way to fall if they get back to you with the news you didnt want to hear (freeze on headcount, internal promotion has filled it, youre over-qualified, your under qualified, the role is too junior for you, the location is too far for you etc etc) Ive had them all over the last 6 months and its such a ballache.
Focus on the next one then the next one keep going but dont give this one "possible" job a second thought now unless they come back to you. Otherwise youll end up feeling a right mug like Billy with your hopes dashed!
Also I don't need to catch with EastEnders now either!
Latest saga- had an email Wednesday from a recruiter about an interesting role working in the server team for a big insurance company. Seems keen had a chat on the phone all seemed okay. Advised me the hiring manager wants people to complete a test that the recruiter emails to you and expects an email back in 40-45 minutes or so (assume to stop you just googling all the answers). He asks me when I can do it. Well until today we have been living at the in-laws as we have had a new bathroom fitted, so advised him i would struggle to do it that evening or Thursday for that reason but I was off work Friday afternoon (yesterday) so could do it then. He said he would call in the afternoon. Got no call. Assume he got lower hanging fruit who could drop everything and do a 40 minute test straight away. Nevermind. Next!
a mate said he pulled in some favours for me recommending me to his boss for an opening.
he said the gaffer would get in touch.
heard nothing but did get a "private number" phone call last friday - like front door visitors that I am not expecting I never answer the door and never answer private or number withheld calls.
my mate said his boss rang me on friday and I never picked up. I said it was private number number and he never left me a message. thats my one shot at that one apparently. balls to it. I'm not losing any sleep. If they cant be bothered to leave a voicemail what does that say about either the boss himself or the culture (and I know for a fact the culture is awful there in terms of how they treat suppliers.....I was only humouring my mate because he had already recommended me so to say I'm not interested now would have put him in the embarrassing situation of withdrawing my cv.
he said the gaffer would get in touch.
heard nothing but did get a "private number" phone call last friday - like front door visitors that I am not expecting I never answer the door and never answer private or number withheld calls.
my mate said his boss rang me on friday and I never picked up. I said it was private number number and he never left me a message. thats my one shot at that one apparently. balls to it. I'm not losing any sleep. If they cant be bothered to leave a voicemail what does that say about either the boss himself or the culture (and I know for a fact the culture is awful there in terms of how they treat suppliers.....I was only humouring my mate because he had already recommended me so to say I'm not interested now would have put him in the embarrassing situation of withdrawing my cv.
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