Do people not want to work?
Discussion
Robertj21a said:
Sheets Tabuer said:
Would you like to wipe a 90 year old blokes arse for a couple of quid an hour?
Lets have a look:
Housing benefit £150 pw or £600 pm
Council tax benefit £110 pm
Benefits 688 * source gingerbread
=£1398
Wiping arses on minimum wage = £1254 so you're £144 worse off a month going to work.
Blinking heck !Lets have a look:
Housing benefit £150 pw or £600 pm
Council tax benefit £110 pm
Benefits 688 * source gingerbread
=£1398
Wiping arses on minimum wage = £1254 so you're £144 worse off a month going to work.
Do you get that just by saying that you can't find work ?
.
the government "could" if they wanted to offer lots of people on the dole a basic 37 hours a week work helping to cleaning up our streets, tending to gardens pathways roads the bins tree cutting graffiti removal etc give them a living wage by that i dont mean you just cover all your bills am have a Pound at the end of the week - how will people ever better themselves or pay off any debts if thats the level of disposable income left. And I dont think its fair asking these same people to "work" those hours for their £72 JSA a week as that just adds to the modern slavery issue (when Poundland was taking on the unemployed for "work experience/workfare" they were essentially "earning" just £1.94 an HOUR based on say 37 hours or £2.06 an hour if they only forced you to do 35 hrs). youve got bosses rubbing their hands thinking they dont have to pay employees or give them sick pay or holiday pay or other benefits they can just take on the unemployed and keep all the money themselves. that is fundamentally and morally wrong but clearly some bosses do manage to get a full 8 hours sleep every night and couldnt give a damn..
there is no logic or reason for saying youre better off in work (and likely going into more debt) than not being in work and getting more money on benefits. saying that is not wrong per se its just stating facts. why do we have a system with this illogical means of paying people.
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Friday 21st September 16:05
Sheets Tabuer said:
Would you like to wipe a 90 year old blokes arse for a couple of quid an hour?
Lets have a look:
Housing benefit £150 pw or £600 pm
Council tax benefit £110 pm
Benefits 688 * source gingerbread
=£1398
Wiping arses on minimum wage = £1254 so you're £144 worse off a month going to work.
And that’s AFTER the Tory cuts! Wait until Corbyn gets back into power non of us will ever have to work again. Lets have a look:
Housing benefit £150 pw or £600 pm
Council tax benefit £110 pm
Benefits 688 * source gingerbread
=£1398
Wiping arses on minimum wage = £1254 so you're £144 worse off a month going to work.
Tekno said:
My ex partner and mother of my child hasn't worked for 10+ years.
She has been given a detached 4 bedroom home in a affluent Surrey village by the council - with garage/driveway, has two 17 plate (manual) cars, yet claims disability benefit.
She has had 4 kids via 3 fathers.
Each year she goes to New York every Feb without fail, a summer holiday abroad and Centre Parcs in October.
She's got 4 x pedigree dogs.
It goes on...
I work as does my partner, we go to the Isle of Wight each summer for our holiday with my son and two step children as that's all we can afford!
The world has gone mad.
I'm sorry but there is absolutely no way she's doing all that just on benefits. Who uses the other car?She has been given a detached 4 bedroom home in a affluent Surrey village by the council - with garage/driveway, has two 17 plate (manual) cars, yet claims disability benefit.
She has had 4 kids via 3 fathers.
Each year she goes to New York every Feb without fail, a summer holiday abroad and Centre Parcs in October.
She's got 4 x pedigree dogs.
It goes on...
I work as does my partner, we go to the Isle of Wight each summer for our holiday with my son and two step children as that's all we can afford!
The world has gone mad.
bmwmike said:
Same. And at least on benefits I'd have time to execute on many of the business ideas my current full time role prevents me from doing properly .
If the councils are paying so much for care (quote: "companies are paid a scandalous amount by the councils to carry out care in the home") why are the salaries so low??? If care homes were inundated with applicants I could understand low salary but as that's not the case you need to dip into that scandalous profit margin and pay a decent wage.
Well quite, the ;pay is low but its not all wiping peoples arse's - some are social visits, some are just a few minutes to make a cup of tea / ensure that they have taken their meds (themselves) etc. If the councils are paying so much for care (quote: "companies are paid a scandalous amount by the councils to carry out care in the home") why are the salaries so low??? If care homes were inundated with applicants I could understand low salary but as that's not the case you need to dip into that scandalous profit margin and pay a decent wage.
But yes, from what wifey was saying, each 15 minute call gets upwards of £40 from the council!
When all you're offering is NMW, your main competition is the benefits system.
For many, they simply can't take the cut in income despite wanting to work. Not everyone is a benefit scrounger (although there are plenty who take the piss) but rely on the system to survive.
You simply have to pay more than they'd get on benefits to make it worthwhile.
For many, they simply can't take the cut in income despite wanting to work. Not everyone is a benefit scrounger (although there are plenty who take the piss) but rely on the system to survive.
You simply have to pay more than they'd get on benefits to make it worthwhile.
sam.rog said:
My partner has been out of work for 3 months. She gets £70 a week. I can’t work out how these people get so much.
Does she have a disability? Depression is a good one to get and how many kids do you have? She will need at least 4 to get big benefits also handy if a few of those also have some disabilities that’s how you get the maximum which is capped at £27k is it not? BoRED S2upid said:
Does she have a disability? Depression is a good one to get and how many kids do you have? She will need at least 4 to get big benefits also handy if a few of those also have some disabilities that’s how you get the maximum which is capped at £27k is it not?
Exactly.As long as she suffers from ''social anxiety'' and/or ''depression'' and make sure one or more of the kids are diagnosed as being ''OTS'' (On The Spectrum) or ''ND'' (Neuro-Diverse) and it's a Bingo!
Robertj21a said:
Blinking heck !
Do you get that just by saying that you can't find work ?
.
No you don't. I am pretty sure that standard unemployment is about £70 a week. Plus your rent and council tax. If you live with family you don't get the rent and council tax allowance.Do you get that just by saying that you can't find work ?
.
Of course if you have kids and or some kind of disability or mental health problems etc, then it's a different game.
As my sister has just discovered, living on benefits goes a bit pear-shaped when the kids hit 18 and their disability benefits stop.
She has now gone back to work - full time in a care home. To be fair, she was working pretty much full time (special needs and child development) until 2 years ago, when she had a bit of a breakdown. Got signed off, and discovered that she was better off not working.
She has a 16 year old and a 7 year old, but they don't have statements. The 18 year old is high functioning autistic, and has learnt to cope with his condition. He's a clever lad, and will be fine working in the right setting. Hacking the school's systems was what spurred them to look seriously at his behaviour. Younger ones have the same traits, but aren't disruptive in the classroom, so not judged as special needs.
My sister has a long term plan though. She is doing as many courses at work as she can, and intends going into care home management.
She has always tried to better herself, but sometimes playing the system pays more.
A friend of mine is in a similar situation. His partner is physically disabled, her 18 year old has a mental age of 9. The boy will never get meaningful employment, but the benefits have reduced now. He cares for both of them, and they are struggling now. He has found a niche that should pay enough to keep them afloat - he is breaking cars and selling parts via owner's clubs. Small scale at the moment, as he is building contacts and doing a couple of hours a day. It will work out for him. With a bit of encouragement from me and his missus, he is learning that he can actually do things, earn money, and have some fun.
She has now gone back to work - full time in a care home. To be fair, she was working pretty much full time (special needs and child development) until 2 years ago, when she had a bit of a breakdown. Got signed off, and discovered that she was better off not working.
She has a 16 year old and a 7 year old, but they don't have statements. The 18 year old is high functioning autistic, and has learnt to cope with his condition. He's a clever lad, and will be fine working in the right setting. Hacking the school's systems was what spurred them to look seriously at his behaviour. Younger ones have the same traits, but aren't disruptive in the classroom, so not judged as special needs.
My sister has a long term plan though. She is doing as many courses at work as she can, and intends going into care home management.
She has always tried to better herself, but sometimes playing the system pays more.
A friend of mine is in a similar situation. His partner is physically disabled, her 18 year old has a mental age of 9. The boy will never get meaningful employment, but the benefits have reduced now. He cares for both of them, and they are struggling now. He has found a niche that should pay enough to keep them afloat - he is breaking cars and selling parts via owner's clubs. Small scale at the moment, as he is building contacts and doing a couple of hours a day. It will work out for him. With a bit of encouragement from me and his missus, he is learning that he can actually do things, earn money, and have some fun.
Sheepshanks said:
Tekno said:
My ex partner and mother of my child hasn't worked for 10+ years.
She has been given a detached 4 bedroom home in a affluent Surrey village by the council - with garage/driveway, has two 17 plate (manual) cars, yet claims disability benefit.
She has had 4 kids via 3 fathers.
Each year she goes to New York every Feb without fail, a summer holiday abroad and Centre Parcs in October.
She's got 4 x pedigree dogs.
It goes on...
I work as does my partner, we go to the Isle of Wight each summer for our holiday with my son and two step children as that's all we can afford!
The world has gone mad.
I'm sorry but there is absolutely no way she's doing all that just on benefits. Who uses the other car?She has been given a detached 4 bedroom home in a affluent Surrey village by the council - with garage/driveway, has two 17 plate (manual) cars, yet claims disability benefit.
She has had 4 kids via 3 fathers.
Each year she goes to New York every Feb without fail, a summer holiday abroad and Centre Parcs in October.
She's got 4 x pedigree dogs.
It goes on...
I work as does my partner, we go to the Isle of Wight each summer for our holiday with my son and two step children as that's all we can afford!
The world has gone mad.
House = free (rent and council tax paid for by benefits)
Benefits for 4 kids - 4 lots of child benefit (£65 a week) +child tax credit (£225 per week) + income support. (£75)
If the disability living allowance isn't being used for one car and is on the higher rate for both care and mobility = £145 a week
Roughly £26.5k in cold hard cash tax free per year and a free house.before the CSA payments from the fathers
4 kids to 3 fathers lets say she is still with the last dad, so she gets a minimum of 2 lots of CSA, This is not taken into account for any of the above benefit assessments
Lets say the two dads earn 30k, have the kids 1-2 nights a week she'll get another £57 x2 a week = £6k in CSA payments
NWMark said:
Sheepshanks said:
Tekno said:
My ex partner and mother of my child hasn't worked for 10+ years.
She has been given a detached 4 bedroom home in a affluent Surrey village by the council - with garage/driveway, has two 17 plate (manual) cars, yet claims disability benefit.
She has had 4 kids via 3 fathers.
Each year she goes to New York every Feb without fail, a summer holiday abroad and Centre Parcs in October.
She's got 4 x pedigree dogs.
It goes on...
I work as does my partner, we go to the Isle of Wight each summer for our holiday with my son and two step children as that's all we can afford!
The world has gone mad.
I'm sorry but there is absolutely no way she's doing all that just on benefits. Who uses the other car?She has been given a detached 4 bedroom home in a affluent Surrey village by the council - with garage/driveway, has two 17 plate (manual) cars, yet claims disability benefit.
She has had 4 kids via 3 fathers.
Each year she goes to New York every Feb without fail, a summer holiday abroad and Centre Parcs in October.
She's got 4 x pedigree dogs.
It goes on...
I work as does my partner, we go to the Isle of Wight each summer for our holiday with my son and two step children as that's all we can afford!
The world has gone mad.
House = free (rent and council tax paid for by benefits)
Benefits for 4 kids - 4 lots of child benefit (£65 a week) +child tax credit (£225 per week) + income support. (£75)
If the disability living allowance isn't being used for one car and is on the higher rate for both care and mobility = £145 a week
Roughly £26.5k in cold hard cash tax free per year and a free house.before the CSA payments from the fathers
4 kids to 3 fathers lets say she is still with the last dad, so she gets a minimum of 2 lots of CSA, This is not taken into account for any of the above benefit assessments
Lets say the two dads earn 30k, have the kids 1-2 nights a week she'll get another £57 x2 a week = £6k in CSA payments
But as someone who doesn’t work now, but regularly visits New York, and has holidays in France, not always both in the same year, only has one car, no dogs, pedigree or otherwise, and no kids at home, I’d say that all the stuff listed that she gets and does, is total bolleaux.
NWMark said:
You'd be very surprised.
House = free (rent and council tax paid for by benefits)
Benefits for 4 kids - 4 lots of child benefit (£65 a week) +child tax credit (£225 per week) + income support. (£75)
If the disability living allowance isn't being used for one car and is on the higher rate for both care and mobility = £145 a week
Roughly £26.5k in cold hard cash tax free per year and a free house.before the CSA payments from the fathers
4 kids to 3 fathers lets say she is still with the last dad, so she gets a minimum of 2 lots of CSA, This is not taken into account for any of the above benefit assessments
Lets say the two dads earn 30k, have the kids 1-2 nights a week she'll get another £57 x2 a week = £6k in CSA payments
So roughly equivalent to the take home pay of a £43k job.House = free (rent and council tax paid for by benefits)
Benefits for 4 kids - 4 lots of child benefit (£65 a week) +child tax credit (£225 per week) + income support. (£75)
If the disability living allowance isn't being used for one car and is on the higher rate for both care and mobility = £145 a week
Roughly £26.5k in cold hard cash tax free per year and a free house.before the CSA payments from the fathers
4 kids to 3 fathers lets say she is still with the last dad, so she gets a minimum of 2 lots of CSA, This is not taken into account for any of the above benefit assessments
Lets say the two dads earn 30k, have the kids 1-2 nights a week she'll get another £57 x2 a week = £6k in CSA payments
valiant said:
When all you're offering is NMW, your main competition is the benefits system.
For many, they simply can't take the cut in income despite wanting to work. Not everyone is a benefit scrounger (although there are plenty who take the piss) but rely on the system to survive.
You simply have to pay more than they'd get on benefits to make it worthwhile.
This, in spades.For many, they simply can't take the cut in income despite wanting to work. Not everyone is a benefit scrounger (although there are plenty who take the piss) but rely on the system to survive.
You simply have to pay more than they'd get on benefits to make it worthwhile.
Both NMW and the benefits system need to change - the benefits system more urgently & dramatically.
While I do believe in a welfare state for the genuinely needy, I do wonder if any cold, hard cash allowances should be minimised and replaced with vouchers and non-cash allowances to be approved on a case by case basis.
Free housing is extremely expensive to the treasury, but I think it’s the sheer amount of cash that keeps benefits scroungers in the game. They can spend it all on B&H and BTSport, while Braxtyn, Chantelle, Tyler and Chayse go (occasionally) to school in knackered old shoes and torn up uniform.
Saleen836 said:
Local care agency near me advertised positions on the local FB page with 1 weekday position available and 3 weekend positions available, they assumed that offerring an extra 15p per hour for the weekend shift would attract people to work and give up their weekend!
i wonder if the bosses of these firms would for that extra 15p?i saw something similar earlier this week with an extra £0.90p an hour for a night shift over a day shift.
i dont think its because the employers cant pay more or cant afford to pay decent wages its because they dont have to or dont want to - the labour market is awash.
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