Excessive phone use, very annoying.

[Johnnytheboy]

Flibble said:

Agreed. Seen it before, things are gradually locked down and restricted because of a few clowns. All that happens is the good people leave because they have other options than putting up with a load of BS and the clowns stay. It's building a culture of mediocre employees who can't be trusted.

Unfortunately, as in so many other things in the workplace, you need a clearly defined rule. The best one would be "you can check your phones but don't take the piss". But then someone has to define "take the piss".

So you end up with a blanket ban.

[johnwilliams77]

Johnnytheboy said:

Unfortunately, as in so many other things in the workplace, you need a clearly defined rule. The best one would be "you can check your phones but don't take the piss". But then someone has to define "take the piss".

So you end up with a blanket ban.

No you don’t
We do not have a rule and it is not required

[lyonspride]

johnwilliams77 said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Unfortunately, as in so many other things in the workplace, you need a clearly defined rule. The best one would be "you can check your phones but don't take the piss". But then someone has to define "take the piss".

So you end up with a blanket ban.

No you don’t
We do not have a rule and it is not required

Exactly, simply not required, just don't hire idiots, and don't make good people leave by creating rules that treat them like idiots.
The trouble is a of companies do this, end up with majority idiots because the way they perceive their staff changes to "oh they're all easy to replace idiots".

And if anyone thinks my approach was "bullying", you have to understand that I treat people as equals, regardless of their position in the company, this translates directtly to respect, I don't appear to take sides, I stick up for what is "right", I don't just blindly agree with some arse hole manager from another department, that whole "boys club" thing can f**k right off.

Once my guys got to understand me, they saw me as someone who'd have their backs if someone came witch hunting for them, but also as someone who will put them straight to keep them out of trouble, preferably without anyone else ever knowing about it.
I had two young apprentices who'd work 4 hours unpaid overtime, because they'd see me doing the same, rather than being some tit who hands out orders to stay behind 4 hours and then f**ks off at 4'oclock.

Respect is earned, not demanded.

[johnwilliams77]

Well I agree with most of what you say except the overtime. The Germans and Norwegians have it right, we do far too much discretionary overtime in the U.K. and should be expected to work much extra for free unless that time is given back another time.

[lyonspride]

johnwilliams77 said:

Well I agree with most of what you say except the overtime. The Germans and Norwegians have it right, we do far too much discretionary overtime in the U.K. and should be expected to work much extra for free unless that time is given back another time.

Well that's a given really, if someone is going to put in several hours when we're really up against it, then i'm not going to be too upset if they need to leave early, take a longer lunch, come in late due to weather or other issues.
People work harder when they're trusted and feel a part of the businesses success.

[johnwilliams77]

lyonspride said:

Well that's a given really, if someone is going to put in several hours when we're really up against it, then i'm not going to be too upset if they need to leave early, take a longer lunch, come in late due to weather or other issues.
People work harder when they're trusted and feel a part of the businesses success.

Well that’s great that your company and the one I work for operates in this fashion. However, I think we are in the fortunate minority and a large % of the private sector expect 10,20+ hours ‘to get on’, especially the big 4 as an example.

[lyonspride]

johnwilliams77 said:

lyonspride said:

Well that's a given really, if someone is going to put in several hours when we're really up against it, then i'm not going to be too upset if they need to leave early, take a longer lunch, come in late due to weather or other issues.
People work harder when they're trusted and feel a part of the businesses success.

Well that’s great that your company and the one I work for operates in this fashion. However, I think we are in the fortunate minority and a large % of the private sector expect 10,20+ hours ‘to get on’, especially the big 4 as an example.

My current place doesn't work this way at all, this is why I look back and understand what worked and what did not. The places I was talking about, I ended up falling out with people who kept trying to make the place ever more oppressive, with rules and procedures to solve problems that didn't exist. In those cases it was really all about creating a hierarchy so that certain people could feel more important than others.

[Flooble]

lyonspride said:

johnwilliams77 said:

lyonspride said:

Well that's a given really, if someone is going to put in several hours when we're really up against it, then i'm not going to be too upset if they need to leave early, take a longer lunch, come in late due to weather or other issues.
People work harder when they're trusted and feel a part of the businesses success.

Well that’s great that your company and the one I work for operates in this fashion. However, I think we are in the fortunate minority and a large % of the private sector expect 10,20+ hours ‘to get on’, especially the big 4 as an example.

My current place doesn't work this way at all, this is why I look back and understand what worked and what did not. The places I was talking about, I ended up falling out with people who kept trying to make the place ever more oppressive, with rules and procedures to solve problems that didn't exist. In those cases it was really all about creating a hierarchy so that certain people could feel more important than others.

I suspect it's about mediocrity and possibly courage. Simplistic example but it's easy to implement a firewall rule that blocks youtube. No risk of anyone watching anything dodgy (the fact that other sites are available is ... moot).

A more advanced approach would be to perform a decent risk assessment, consider the probability and impact, then put in place a less brutal rule which on the other hand requires more effort (acceptable use policy, awareness training, reviews of people if complaints are made etc.). Such an approach needs a company to have more competent, diligent management who are prepared to put in the extra effort.

[lyonspride]

Flooble said:

lyonspride said:

johnwilliams77 said:

lyonspride said:

Well that's a given really, if someone is going to put in several hours when we're really up against it, then i'm not going to be too upset if they need to leave early, take a longer lunch, come in late due to weather or other issues.
People work harder when they're trusted and feel a part of the businesses success.

Well that’s great that your company and the one I work for operates in this fashion. However, I think we are in the fortunate minority and a large % of the private sector expect 10,20+ hours ‘to get on’, especially the big 4 as an example.

My current place doesn't work this way at all, this is why I look back and understand what worked and what did not. The places I was talking about, I ended up falling out with people who kept trying to make the place ever more oppressive, with rules and procedures to solve problems that didn't exist. In those cases it was really all about creating a hierarchy so that certain people could feel more important than others.

I suspect it's about mediocrity and possibly courage. Simplistic example but it's easy to implement a firewall rule that blocks youtube. No risk of anyone watching anything dodgy (the fact that other sites are available is ... moot).

A more advanced approach would be to perform a decent risk assessment, consider the probability and impact, then put in place a less brutal rule which on the other hand requires more effort (acceptable use policy, awareness training, reviews of people if complaints are made etc.). Such an approach needs a company to have more competent, diligent management who are prepared to put in the extra effort.

Firewall ain't gonna block sh*t, if you know the office staff use their iPhones on the company network, you know that outgoing port 8001-8003 has to be open, you tunnel an encrypted proxy connection through those ports and ain't nobody going to block anything.

This is why blanket rules are stupid, they give a false sense of security. The key is to stop being paranoid about what might happen and just look at the figures, if the work is getting done, then leave people alone.

A lot of new rules and policies are put in place by people trying to justify their existence.

Edited by lyonspride on Wednesday 3rd October 22:10

[randomeddy]

Well, phone boy had another two days off.

The other blokes were commenting about him and his phone use/not signing in/being late/not mucking in etc,etc.

Earlier in the week the foreman said to me ' (he) obviously does not want to be here, so that is it, he is gone'. Finished him today.


So instead of playing it clever and finding the next job while still being in work he has thrown away taking home £615 a week for the next couple of months. He was frantically ringing around all morning trying to find work, but failed. Mad.

[RichTT]

The most recent Android update included an app timer. I've set some up on time wasting apps like imgur etc to limit me to 30 min per day. Once the timer is up it grays out the app and I can't use it any more.

New sites and messenger/whatsapp I don't limit. Facebook app was deleted from my phone a month or two ago. Don't miss it at all.