Offered a job in Afghanistan! Do I go?!
Discussion
the agency thing is a good angle - IF you are being offered through an agency - someone there is about to be getting a very good bonus!!
In my line of work - I rarely have to use agencies - when I am forced to - I won't allow them more than 8% on top of my rate.
You may find they are taking 200%
Also - if the OP is already on 1000pd - I see no reason why this still shouldn't by multiplied by x2 or x3 - as if he is worth that in the UK, then that is the going rate and multiplier still holds true
In my line of work - I rarely have to use agencies - when I am forced to - I won't allow them more than 8% on top of my rate.
You may find they are taking 200%
Also - if the OP is already on 1000pd - I see no reason why this still shouldn't by multiplied by x2 or x3 - as if he is worth that in the UK, then that is the going rate and multiplier still holds true
Flooble said:
For all we know the OP is working in Leeds on £1000 a day so maybe we're making an erroneous assumption about the "lack of uplift"!
To the contrary I would say. No uplift is no uplift. To be sent to work 75 days at a time in a NATO base in Afghanistan. If the OP is billing good money in Leeds then he will be looking living a comfortable existence already. If he’s not, then he’s off to Afghanistan on not good money either. If this was a catalyst to jump from average to many times average earnings, then I can see why one would consider it as means to an end. In these circumstances however I am still struggling to see any upside here. Future opportunities seems to come at significant costs to my eyes.
The Selfish Gene said:
100% as Purple Turtle said it
the ONLY reason to do it, is minimum tax, maximum earnings - come back with enough to buy your house in cash.
Anything less than that just isn't worth the hassle/risk.
Someone else will probably confirm but how will it be minimum tax, I thought you have to be out of the country (UK) for 12 months to obtain tax free status?the ONLY reason to do it, is minimum tax, maximum earnings - come back with enough to buy your house in cash.
Anything less than that just isn't worth the hassle/risk.
If it is a 12 month or more contract with 75 days on then a month off at a time, where will the OP live when back in the UK? This makes it even less attractive
I'm going to go with my agency extracting the urine comment, once the OP tells them (if it is via agency) that the financial aspect isn't enough so isn't interested, their bonus and large % they hope to cream off the top is out of the window so they will start offering a bit more until the point the OP accepts.
The Selfish Gene said:
another good point - I haven't looked at the tax rules for awhile.
If the rate is high enough - I'd be inclined to stay out of the UK for the minimum term and use the money they'd have robbed me in tax to live somewhere else on holiday.
The tax rules don't work like that. You can't just hole up somewhere for the rest of the tax year; unless you are working the time away doesn't count (subject to some rather complex calculations).If the rate is high enough - I'd be inclined to stay out of the UK for the minimum term and use the money they'd have robbed me in tax to live somewhere else on holiday.
Mr Pointy said:
The Selfish Gene said:
another good point - I haven't looked at the tax rules for awhile.
If the rate is high enough - I'd be inclined to stay out of the UK for the minimum term and use the money they'd have robbed me in tax to live somewhere else on holiday.
The tax rules don't work like that. You can't just hole up somewhere for the rest of the tax year; unless you are working the time away doesn't count (subject to some rather complex calculations).If the rate is high enough - I'd be inclined to stay out of the UK for the minimum term and use the money they'd have robbed me in tax to live somewhere else on holiday.
what a bunch of f
kers.So, to be sure I understand.
You spend six months earning tax free in some random warzone.........then you stay away for the minimum term (say 6 months argument sake) but they count that as holiday?
You come back on month 13 and they charge you the UK Tax rate for the first 6?
f
k that st.Just don't tell them you weren't' working for the second half and half the rate you were paid on the SA.
I know I'm simplifying it.
Yet another reason not to go unless getting paid a total s
t load for hassle factor.Olivera said:
It's entirely possible and common to earn £500 (or more) per day contracting in IT in the UK, so Afghanistan would need to pay more than that.
Its also entirely possible to earn a small fraction of that per day contracting in IT in the UK. There's a big difference between doing a tech refresh replacing a load of laptops, and setting up and managing a complete system. As I understand it the former tends to be done by IT/Defence contracting companies, while the latter is done by NATO/NCIA civilian/military staff or sometimes and individual contractor in that post. That said I'd expect a similar role to pay a chunk more in Afghanistan than the UK, so either the OP's looking a job that's a few steps down the ladder from his current job, or the agency is taking the piss.
Having just left Afghanistan in June this year after 5 years out there working for NATO (not as a contractor but a NATO agency) i can give you some thoughts on what to expect. I missed the start of this thread by a few days as i am now with the UK MOD down the Falklands which has worse bloody internet than i did in Afghanistan......bitter at the moment is a understatement!
Anyway here goes....
If you are on a NATO contract, working actually for NATO you will be with NCIA, NSPA or NATO in HQ RS in Kabul. If you are based in Kabul you could be at HQ RS in the Green Zone as they call it. This is where the headquarters is and is made up of the NATO nations with the US taking primacy. But you will see Brits, Turks, Aussies and whoever else sends a odd handful of troops to support ops. Its safe enough to have a nice garden in the middle of it and rarely do you get rocket attacked but you do hear plenty of nearby bombs etc. They become the norm, trust me.
Elsewhere in Kabul you can be at the Airport or otherwise known as HKIA (Hamid Karzai International Airport). This is run by the Turks (useless!) and you will see Brits, Germans, US and now Portuguese military. This does get rocket attacked now and then and i have good video of Taliban launching rockets from the constantly never-built firing points....sorry i mean flats that overlook the base! But you will need to fly into HKIA to get to HQ RS using military helicopters as road movement between the airport and HQ RS stopped ages ago. The literally have mil helicopters like buses taking people to and from the 2 bases. The food in both is pretty good, the accom in HQ RS is tight to say the least but in HKIA you will be in each NATO agencies own compound which are single man rooms. Certainly in the NSPA compound you have en-suite not sure for NCIA.
The other place you could be is Kandahar where i was. Now this is a totally different kettle of fish and if you are IT then i dont think you will be going there as NCIA stopped going there when the US took over the base in 2016. Doubt also you will be NSPA as they dont send IT people there permanently. But just in case...
Kandahar is now run by the US with about 5000 military and Contractors there. Its massive to say the least. Its little America with any trace of the Brits being there a few years ago well and truly gone. Even to the point that the decent UK accom and canteen were abandoned as they were 240v and the US Contractors wont touch it unless it 110!!!
Kandahar or KAF as its known does get rocketed every now and then and you get used to it. Since the US started in the past year putting more and more aircraft there, they also put in some fun sounding and looking anti-missile defences. Think very big Gatling guns that spray bullets everywhere! The accom is pretty good for Afghanistan but the food is terrible, its US style poorly cooked.
Living as a civilian in a military base can get a lot of getting used to. On the US bases they are more contractor friendly than other nations. In fact i would say the Brits can be the worse but its easier if you were ex-mil going over than a new green civilian starting.
The time away from home you may well get used to but those back at home sometimes cant. I did 3 months on, 1 month off but that wasnt concrete and in fact my last stint i did close to 12 months on.
Im afraid some people earlier on are quoting pretty high expectations of salary and ill explain why.
Go back 5-10 years ago and pop star wages were available. In fact when i first started i was on $14,000 a month. This was when countries were spending a lot of their military budget on Afghanistan. When that started drying up the salaries went down. Also if you are working as a NATO employee even in Afghanistan there are set wages so 1k a day you are living in dreamland....stay in UK if you want that.
As a bog standard Consultant NATO IT guy i would be surprised if you are on more than 7-8k a month Sterling. If you are employed as a NATO International Civilian (NIC) you can get slightly more but you cannot stay more than 6 months of every 18 in Afghanistan. You get good money when you deploy out there but then you have to return to Europe where you get rubbish money but admittedly tax free. I hasten to add if you are a NIC the 90 day rule does not apply and you are considered tax free by HMRC but as a Consultant the 90 day rules applies.
The only people now on pop star wages are US Contractors, US citizens. This is because 80% of the contracts now are supporting US and under the LOGCAP (Google it) program they predominantly use US companies (DYNCORP or FLUOR for example) to provide support and if you are IT then you would need US clearance which means US citizen. They pay well with such an example i knew a US IT guy running a fuel management system who was on $190,000 a year to wait for a phone call to fix it or do low level maintenance using his laptop!
After all that would i suggest you go....yes. But only because it will soon all go over to the US and jobs will be harder and harder to get on. But seriously think about what you are going for.
Anyway here goes....
If you are on a NATO contract, working actually for NATO you will be with NCIA, NSPA or NATO in HQ RS in Kabul. If you are based in Kabul you could be at HQ RS in the Green Zone as they call it. This is where the headquarters is and is made up of the NATO nations with the US taking primacy. But you will see Brits, Turks, Aussies and whoever else sends a odd handful of troops to support ops. Its safe enough to have a nice garden in the middle of it and rarely do you get rocket attacked but you do hear plenty of nearby bombs etc. They become the norm, trust me.
Elsewhere in Kabul you can be at the Airport or otherwise known as HKIA (Hamid Karzai International Airport). This is run by the Turks (useless!) and you will see Brits, Germans, US and now Portuguese military. This does get rocket attacked now and then and i have good video of Taliban launching rockets from the constantly never-built firing points....sorry i mean flats that overlook the base! But you will need to fly into HKIA to get to HQ RS using military helicopters as road movement between the airport and HQ RS stopped ages ago. The literally have mil helicopters like buses taking people to and from the 2 bases. The food in both is pretty good, the accom in HQ RS is tight to say the least but in HKIA you will be in each NATO agencies own compound which are single man rooms. Certainly in the NSPA compound you have en-suite not sure for NCIA.
The other place you could be is Kandahar where i was. Now this is a totally different kettle of fish and if you are IT then i dont think you will be going there as NCIA stopped going there when the US took over the base in 2016. Doubt also you will be NSPA as they dont send IT people there permanently. But just in case...
Kandahar is now run by the US with about 5000 military and Contractors there. Its massive to say the least. Its little America with any trace of the Brits being there a few years ago well and truly gone. Even to the point that the decent UK accom and canteen were abandoned as they were 240v and the US Contractors wont touch it unless it 110!!!
Kandahar or KAF as its known does get rocketed every now and then and you get used to it. Since the US started in the past year putting more and more aircraft there, they also put in some fun sounding and looking anti-missile defences. Think very big Gatling guns that spray bullets everywhere! The accom is pretty good for Afghanistan but the food is terrible, its US style poorly cooked.
Living as a civilian in a military base can get a lot of getting used to. On the US bases they are more contractor friendly than other nations. In fact i would say the Brits can be the worse but its easier if you were ex-mil going over than a new green civilian starting.
The time away from home you may well get used to but those back at home sometimes cant. I did 3 months on, 1 month off but that wasnt concrete and in fact my last stint i did close to 12 months on.
Im afraid some people earlier on are quoting pretty high expectations of salary and ill explain why.
Go back 5-10 years ago and pop star wages were available. In fact when i first started i was on $14,000 a month. This was when countries were spending a lot of their military budget on Afghanistan. When that started drying up the salaries went down. Also if you are working as a NATO employee even in Afghanistan there are set wages so 1k a day you are living in dreamland....stay in UK if you want that.
As a bog standard Consultant NATO IT guy i would be surprised if you are on more than 7-8k a month Sterling. If you are employed as a NATO International Civilian (NIC) you can get slightly more but you cannot stay more than 6 months of every 18 in Afghanistan. You get good money when you deploy out there but then you have to return to Europe where you get rubbish money but admittedly tax free. I hasten to add if you are a NIC the 90 day rule does not apply and you are considered tax free by HMRC but as a Consultant the 90 day rules applies.
The only people now on pop star wages are US Contractors, US citizens. This is because 80% of the contracts now are supporting US and under the LOGCAP (Google it) program they predominantly use US companies (DYNCORP or FLUOR for example) to provide support and if you are IT then you would need US clearance which means US citizen. They pay well with such an example i knew a US IT guy running a fuel management system who was on $190,000 a year to wait for a phone call to fix it or do low level maintenance using his laptop!
After all that would i suggest you go....yes. But only because it will soon all go over to the US and jobs will be harder and harder to get on. But seriously think about what you are going for.
The Selfish Gene said:
Mr Pointy said:
The Selfish Gene said:
another good point - I haven't looked at the tax rules for awhile.
If the rate is high enough - I'd be inclined to stay out of the UK for the minimum term and use the money they'd have robbed me in tax to live somewhere else on holiday.
The tax rules don't work like that. You can't just hole up somewhere for the rest of the tax year; unless you are working the time away doesn't count (subject to some rather complex calculations).If the rate is high enough - I'd be inclined to stay out of the UK for the minimum term and use the money they'd have robbed me in tax to live somewhere else on holiday.
what a bunch of f
kers.So, to be sure I understand.
You spend six months earning tax free in some random warzone.........then you stay away for the minimum term (say 6 months argument sake) but they count that as holiday?
You come back on month 13 and they charge you the UK Tax rate for the first 6?
f
k that st.Just don't tell them you weren't' working for the second half and half the rate you were paid on the SA.
I know I'm simplifying it.
Yet another reason not to go unless getting paid a total s
t load for hassle factor.GT03ROB said:
Very simplistically you need to be working "full time" overseas for a complete tax year (IE: April - April) & are allowed to be in the UK for up to 90days each tax year. Provided you complete a tax year you can be tax free from the point of departure to the point of return. There are definitions of full time. It can be a lot more complicated but these are the basics.
It used to be 90 days.It is now determined by a matrix of ‘days’ x how many ties you have to the UK ( home / wife / children / etc )
Eg : allowable days in UK reduces with increased number of ties.
Quite complicated - but fairly well explained on the HMRC website . ( factors include days in UK / ties / plus residency status for previous 3 years ).
Rules were changed to prevent people like airline pilots claiming overseas residency when they had home , wife, kids, car, and employer in UK - while spending most days per month flying long haul away from the UK. but their home base was UK.
And Yes : basically you need to be employed for a full tax year outside of the UK.
Good info from petop.
A comment to put the seemingly disproportionately high US contractor wages into perspective. They gross pretty high, but they have to pay top bracket income tax, social security, medical insurance, and several other deductions on that (you’re taxed on your worldwide income as a US citizens). So nett its generally not all that different to what you might be getting totally “tax free” and essentially cash in hand as a plucky Brit.
A comment to put the seemingly disproportionately high US contractor wages into perspective. They gross pretty high, but they have to pay top bracket income tax, social security, medical insurance, and several other deductions on that (you’re taxed on your worldwide income as a US citizens). So nett its generally not all that different to what you might be getting totally “tax free” and essentially cash in hand as a plucky Brit.
Edited by dvs_dave on Wednesday 10th October 06:21
dvs_dave said:
Good info from petop.
A comment to put the seemingly disproportionately high US contractor wages into perspective. They gross pretty high, but they have to pay top bracket income tax, social security, medical insurance, and several other deductions on that (you’re taxed on your worldwide income as a US citizens). So nett its generally not all that different to what you might be getting totally “tax free” and essentially cash in hand as a plucky Brit.
The figures he quoted are consistent with what I would expect to see from the US contractors he quotes, you may deduce I know one of those contractors rather well. To put it into perspective this would come down to a home country base salary of around 55k sterling. The balance is made of uplifts & extended working. A comment to put the seemingly disproportionately high US contractor wages into perspective. They gross pretty high, but they have to pay top bracket income tax, social security, medical insurance, and several other deductions on that (you’re taxed on your worldwide income as a US citizens). So nett its generally not all that different to what you might be getting totally “tax free” and essentially cash in hand as a plucky Brit.
Edited by dvs_dave on Wednesday 10th October 06:21
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Get out there OP - it will be more exciting than Leeds and you will save a lot of money I would think on not going out etc.
How so? Hes stuck IN a base. He's not armed up and exploring. Unless he's already on fantastic pay i don't see how going for the same money is worth it at all. Do you not read about the daily attacks and killings en masse OP?
75 days straight is daft.
Letting your ex move into your house that you are selling, are you mad? What if she refuses to leave?
This reads like a mid life crisis. You are at a cross roads, in crisis following a break up. You want something, some excitement.
Become a Special Constable, join the Army reserves or take up a new and very different hobby.
And please, a single man with cats? No. Just no.
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