0 hr contracts
Discussion
Zero hour contracts are pretty normal in the oil industry and, surely in other engineering/IT places, calling them zero hour is just a new name for a contract.
I'm self employed, work for a few different companies on an ad-hoc basis. There's not always a fixed scope of work or a fixed time scale. Sometimes it's a "a project" which rolls into another, sometimes it's asset support work which could be forever if they dont have a staff guy to do the job i'm doing.
I'm self employed, work for a few different companies on an ad-hoc basis. There's not always a fixed scope of work or a fixed time scale. Sometimes it's a "a project" which rolls into another, sometimes it's asset support work which could be forever if they dont have a staff guy to do the job i'm doing.
andburg said:
you have no contracted hours, you're not asking for leave, you're telling them you are unavailable for work that week.
I expect the terms/contract you have is a standard hours contract for notice periods that's just had the number of hours set at 0 rather than a specifically written contract.
Thank you, I don't believe I'm entitled to holiday pay as such because i dont work enoughI expect the terms/contract you have is a standard hours contract for notice periods that's just had the number of hours set at 0 rather than a specifically written contract.
bobmcgod said:
Oh and btw, once the rota is published the hours you are given on that rota are now your contracted hours. 0 hours or not, that time is now yours and as long as you turn up to work and stay there for that time and fulfil your role you are owed the money. Even if they phone you up saying they don't need you in before hand you can still go in to work for that time and get payed for it.
Is this really the case? If so my son could/would be owed at least a couple of weeks pay from cancelled days over the summer.ToothbrushMan said:
who saw the news item last night - shop scan and pay apps with Co-op? They said oh no we wont be laying existing employees off. yeah right. give it time.
Most supermarkets are introducing them. Co-op (at least my two local ones) seem to have the minimal viable staff anyway (2) - so the app will let them do a bit more and take some pressure off.21TonyK said:
bobmcgod said:
Oh and btw, once the rota is published the hours you are given on that rota are now your contracted hours. 0 hours or not, that time is now yours and as long as you turn up to work and stay there for that time and fulfil your role you are owed the money. Even if they phone you up saying they don't need you in before hand you can still go in to work for that time and get payed for it.
Is this really the case? If so my son could/would be owed at least a couple of weeks pay from cancelled days over the summer.Bare in mind I'm not an expert here so could be wrong...I align my definition of reasonable with leave requests, double the period of time requested is required. Cancel a day of work(even if its 2 hours in that day) for me would be a full 48 hours notice as a bare minimum, cancel a week of then its 2 full weeks notice before the start of the period.
I've seen loads of 0hrs workers complain about being sent home during the working day, this should be paid 100% of the hours they were allocated.
http://www.safeworkers.co.uk/zero-hours-contracts-... doesnt cover this exactly but its a decent guide.
He choose not to go in so he won't be entitled to any back pay. Its more of he needs to so, no I'm still coming in.
Where I used to work they never sent anyone home early. An "OTLE" or option to leave early was offered. If it's the employee chooses to go if offered then they don't have to pay them for it.
Where I used to work they never sent anyone home early. An "OTLE" or option to leave early was offered. If it's the employee chooses to go if offered then they don't have to pay them for it.
HedgeyGedgey said:
Thank you, I don't believe I'm entitled to holiday pay as such because i dont work enough
You should still accrue holiday pay even if you only do handful of hours. It builds up over the course of the financial year.Where I do bank work I accrue an hour for every 8.5 hours I work, which I can then ask to get paid whenever I like.
As someone else said though the holiday pay may be included in your hourly rate, but this should be broken down in your contract.
Baron von Teuchter said:
Zero hour contracts are pretty normal in the oil industry and, surely in other engineering/IT places, calling them zero hour is just a new name for a contract.
I'm self employed, work for a few different companies on an ad-hoc basis. There's not always a fixed scope of work or a fixed time scale. Sometimes it's a "a project" which rolls into another, sometimes it's asset support work which could be forever if they dont have a staff guy to do the job i'm doing.
Then you are not on a zero hours contract. You are self employed who chooses to work in that environment. Very different to being actually employed on a zero hour contract.I'm self employed, work for a few different companies on an ad-hoc basis. There's not always a fixed scope of work or a fixed time scale. Sometimes it's a "a project" which rolls into another, sometimes it's asset support work which could be forever if they dont have a staff guy to do the job i'm doing.
Using your analogy, all self employed people are on a zero hour contract. As in you don't work you don't get paid. That is not was is being talked about.
valiant said:
For the right person, a zero hour contract can work well.
Where it nearly always falls down is employers taking the piss. They seemingly want it all one way and expect the employee to bend over backwards to accommodate the job whilst offering nothing except the allure of a day's work if you're lucky.
It's no wonder there's such a clamour from some to ban them which will unfortunately affect a small number of people who manage to make it work with a more enlightened employer.
Can say the exact same thing about the self employed 'gig economy' work. Self employed contractors have been the back bone of UK industry since the beginning of time. But when companies decide they can start calling their conventional workers 'self employed' to get around pesky things such as minimum wage and statutory leave, it hurts everyone. The government is forced to crack down, actual self employed get extra hoops to jump through, as do employers. The gig workers get put back on to their conventional option of wage slave work for an employer who despises the fact they actually have to pay them for their labour. Where it nearly always falls down is employers taking the piss. They seemingly want it all one way and expect the employee to bend over backwards to accommodate the job whilst offering nothing except the allure of a day's work if you're lucky.
It's no wonder there's such a clamour from some to ban them which will unfortunately affect a small number of people who manage to make it work with a more enlightened employer.
Drumroll said:
Baron von Teuchter said:
Zero hour contracts are pretty normal in the oil industry and, surely in other engineering/IT places, calling them zero hour is just a new name for a contract.
I'm self employed, work for a few different companies on an ad-hoc basis. There's not always a fixed scope of work or a fixed time scale. Sometimes it's a "a project" which rolls into another, sometimes it's asset support work which could be forever if they dont have a staff guy to do the job i'm doing.
Then you are not on a zero hours contract. You are self employed who chooses to work in that environment. Very different to being actually employed on a zero hour contract.I'm self employed, work for a few different companies on an ad-hoc basis. There's not always a fixed scope of work or a fixed time scale. Sometimes it's a "a project" which rolls into another, sometimes it's asset support work which could be forever if they dont have a staff guy to do the job i'm doing.
Using your analogy, all self employed people are on a zero hour contract. As in you don't work you don't get paid. That is not was is being talked about.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Countdown said:
Drumroll said:
Sounds like a cr@p employer rather than anything to do with zero hours contract.
The two quite often go hand in hand.The two issues are separate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25098984
The problem is when politicians get involved. "Zero hours contracts" sounds worse that "flexible working".
My wife and I are on ZHC at different ends of the wage spectrum. Both of us are completely happy with the arrangement.
I would be happier to see some additional rules for lower paid people on ZHC though. And example would be not allowing unequal notice for time off. If the employer can cancel a shift at X days notice, then you should be able to do the same with no sanctions.
Edited by 98elise on Wednesday 17th October 18:52
98elise said:
Agreed. People on ZHC are generally happy with their lot.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25098984
The problem is when politicians get involved. "Zero hours contracts" sounds worse that "flexible working".
My wife and I are on ZHC at different ends of the wage spectrum. Both of us are completely happy with the arrangement.
There are abuses in the system that need attention, but it is another case of politicians thinking they know what is better for people...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25098984
The problem is when politicians get involved. "Zero hours contracts" sounds worse that "flexible working".
My wife and I are on ZHC at different ends of the wage spectrum. Both of us are completely happy with the arrangement.
0 hours contract is great for the government to count you employed despite that you can go on for month without getting a single hour. Statically, it looks great.
I always find it funny when journalists compare unemployment with another country. It is impossible to compare as the counting is made differently.
France as an example:
http://www.pole-emploi.org/accueil/actualites/comm...
Their counts of unemployed people is much more representative of what is happening. If the same system was used in the UK, I could imagine that unemployment will go up by a few points.
I always find it funny when journalists compare unemployment with another country. It is impossible to compare as the counting is made differently.
France as an example:
http://www.pole-emploi.org/accueil/actualites/comm...
Their counts of unemployed people is much more representative of what is happening. If the same system was used in the UK, I could imagine that unemployment will go up by a few points.
98elise said:
Agreed. People on ZHC are generally happy with their lot.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25098984
The problem is when politicians get involved. "Zero hours contracts" sounds worse that "flexible working".
My wife and I are on ZHC at different ends of the wage spectrum. Both of us are completely happy with the arrangement.
I would be happier to see some additional rules for lower paid people on ZHC though. And example would be not allowing unequal notice for time off. If the employer can cancel a shift at X days notice, then you should be able to do the same with no sanctions.
I don't think anybody disputes that self-employed contractors like yourself may be generally happy with their "lot" but it's worlds apart from people who are on PAYE, who don't know what shift they might be working from one week to the next, who might be working for an Employer (or even a supervisor) who is a bit power-mad and willing to abuse that power. This is what the arse-end of ZHC is. it means no sick pay, very few employment rights, and your earnings being at the whim of your boss.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25098984
The problem is when politicians get involved. "Zero hours contracts" sounds worse that "flexible working".
My wife and I are on ZHC at different ends of the wage spectrum. Both of us are completely happy with the arrangement.
I would be happier to see some additional rules for lower paid people on ZHC though. And example would be not allowing unequal notice for time off. If the employer can cancel a shift at X days notice, then you should be able to do the same with no sanctions.
Edited by 98elise on Wednesday 17th October 18:52
Yes, it CAN and DOES work for some who are PAYE but there are an awful lot for whom it doesn't and who accept it because they have no other choice.
E34-3.2 said:
0 hours contract is great for the government to count you employed despite that you can go on for month without getting a single hour. Statically, it looks great.
I always find it funny when journalists compare unemployment with another country. It is impossible to compare as the counting is made differently.
France as an example:
http://www.pole-emploi.org/accueil/actualites/comm...
Their counts of unemployed people is much more representative of what is happening. If the same system was used in the UK, I could imagine that unemployment will go up by a few points.
True, but the French system is awful for employers and discourages investment and employment?I always find it funny when journalists compare unemployment with another country. It is impossible to compare as the counting is made differently.
France as an example:
http://www.pole-emploi.org/accueil/actualites/comm...
Their counts of unemployed people is much more representative of what is happening. If the same system was used in the UK, I could imagine that unemployment will go up by a few points.
HedgeyGedgey said:
Thank you, I don't believe I'm entitled to holiday pay as such because i dont work enough
In the place I used to work we got 6 minutes holiday for every hour we worked. work 10 hours, you get 60 minutes holiday. It told us on our payslips how many we had accrued, used and remaining. You will get holiday pay. bobmcgod said:
In the place I used to work we got 6 minutes holiday for every hour we worked. work 10 hours, you get 60 minutes holiday. It told us on our payslips how many we had accrued, used and remaining. You will get holiday pay.
I've been working there almost a year, doing Thursday 10-4 And Saturday 8-4 with the odd Friday thrown in. And I've never seen holiday pay or anything on my pay slip, every month it has said NIL. I'll check the most recent when I'm able to dig it out but I'm certain it says NILGassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff