Working beyond contracted hours
Discussion
Zetec-S said:
Each to their own, but personally if everyone "worked to rule" and didn't put in extra hours as and when required then a lot of things wouldn't get done. Fair enough if you're on a low salary/minimum wage, but if someone's on £40k/£50k/£60k+ then a few extra hours is not unreasonable.
My previous boss (mentioned earlier in this thread) would regularly do 12hr+ days, but as a Financial Controller he would have probably been on around £70-80k. Yes, I guess he could have taken a step down and worked on Purchase Ledger, but I imagine the extra £50k a year made those extra hours worthwhile
Yet I am on six figures for 37 hours and every single excess hour is paid at x2 and we are even monitored during shutdown maintenance to ensure we don't work above the WTD.My previous boss (mentioned earlier in this thread) would regularly do 12hr+ days, but as a Financial Controller he would have probably been on around £70-80k. Yes, I guess he could have taken a step down and worked on Purchase Ledger, but I imagine the extra £50k a year made those extra hours worthwhile
Those of us who got promoted have put in extra and worked hard, but all on company hours. It is a mentality borne by our former nationalised industry roots.
Today it seems that working to excess for free is expected.
We need to get back to a middle ground as that's not healthy.
kiethton said:
I think for a salaried role it needs a bit of give and take, some roles by nature need more than the basic hours (client time zones etc.) but you need a good employer that recognises what you do and let’s you go for the occasional appointment in “work hours”.
Mine is one, my contracted hours are 7:00-17:00 Monday-Friday but in reality this is 06:40-19:30 Monday to Friday and every other Saturday afternoon....it’s all part of the job
If they require their staff to work that long then those should be the contracted hours. You’re not an employee they own you with those hours!!Mine is one, my contracted hours are 7:00-17:00 Monday-Friday but in reality this is 06:40-19:30 Monday to Friday and every other Saturday afternoon....it’s all part of the job
I am contracted 35 hours per week, I work that and no more. If I am asked to stay on after my shift ends I get a half day in lieu whether that’s me staying on for 15mins or an hour. If they want someone in on a day off they send a text out asking and they pay handsomely for it. I never do overtime, I value my days off too highly to be tempted by money.
Absolutely not, if my job requires me or my manager asks me to stay longer than my 8:30-17:00 it goes down as overtime at 1.5x
I’m salaried but can still claim overtime for anything over my 37.5 hours. Plus I get door to door travel as it’s classed as work.
The company is charging the customer for the time so why shouldn’t you charge the company?
If you’re working you should be paid for it regardless of how much you earn or what job you do
My partner was expected to give up his weekends and evenings when he was a paralegal on £17k because they had dumped a case on him last min.
I told him that is ridiculous, he stood up to the directors and left the job, now in a much better role being paid for every hour he does
I’m salaried but can still claim overtime for anything over my 37.5 hours. Plus I get door to door travel as it’s classed as work.
The company is charging the customer for the time so why shouldn’t you charge the company?
If you’re working you should be paid for it regardless of how much you earn or what job you do
My partner was expected to give up his weekends and evenings when he was a paralegal on £17k because they had dumped a case on him last min.
I told him that is ridiculous, he stood up to the directors and left the job, now in a much better role being paid for every hour he does
Pros and cons to both arguments,
However, all other things being equal, the person who works strictly according to the hours he gets paid shouldn’t complain if the guy who occasionally works late, offers to come in at the weekends, and generally shows willing is the one that gets preferential treatment for stuff such as promotions.
However, all other things being equal, the person who works strictly according to the hours he gets paid shouldn’t complain if the guy who occasionally works late, offers to come in at the weekends, and generally shows willing is the one that gets preferential treatment for stuff such as promotions.
Hardly a new thing - I have experienced various degrees of this right through my career.
The contract for my current job even has a clause essentially requiring this (and it's not the first job I have had with such a clause).
I have worked in a number of places where it was looked down on and commented on if you only worked your contracted hours.............and I have yet to work anywhere where business travel outside work hours (even at weekends) was officially recognised and recompensed.
The contract for my current job even has a clause essentially requiring this (and it's not the first job I have had with such a clause).
I have worked in a number of places where it was looked down on and commented on if you only worked your contracted hours.............and I have yet to work anywhere where business travel outside work hours (even at weekends) was officially recognised and recompensed.
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 19th October 22:49
Countdown said:
Pros and cons to both arguments,
However, all other things being equal, the person who works strictly according to the hours he gets paid shouldn’t complain if the guy who occasionally works late, offers to come in at the weekends, and generally shows willing is the one that gets preferential treatment for stuff such as promotions.
On the flip side - there are people who stay late......just so they can be seen to be staying late, but their overall output can be much lower.However, all other things being equal, the person who works strictly according to the hours he gets paid shouldn’t complain if the guy who occasionally works late, offers to come in at the weekends, and generally shows willing is the one that gets preferential treatment for stuff such as promotions.
Zetec-S said:
Each to their own, but personally if everyone "worked to rule" and didn't put in extra hours as and when required then a lot of things wouldn't get done.
I agree and there has to be give and take......but in my experience, employers are far more willing to take, than give. If you get a good manager, they will recognise this additional effort and will compensate you for it, even if it has to be 'off the record'. I have done this many times when I had staff. I have also worked for bosses who expect you to put in extra, but then apply company rules strictly when the situation is reversed.
Flexibility/give and take has to work both ways.
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 19th October 22:59
Moonhawk said:
Countdown said:
Pros and cons to both arguments,
However, all other things being equal, the person who works strictly according to the hours he gets paid shouldn’t complain if the guy who occasionally works late, offers to come in at the weekends, and generally shows willing is the one that gets preferential treatment for stuff such as promotions.
On the flip side - there are people who stay late......just so they can be seen to be staying late, but their overall output can be much lower.However, all other things being equal, the person who works strictly according to the hours he gets paid shouldn’t complain if the guy who occasionally works late, offers to come in at the weekends, and generally shows willing is the one that gets preferential treatment for stuff such as promotions.
Moonhawk said:
On the flip side - there are people who stay late......just so they can be seen to be staying late, but their overall output can be much lower.
To be fair they did say "all other things being equal".I'm certainly not a fan of the culture that still exists in some places that simply being present all hours means you're doing more than someone else - you may be more visible but it doesn't mean you're achieving more.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:Moonhawk said:
On the flip side - there are people who stay late......just so they can be seen to be staying late, but their overall output can be much lower.
To be fair they did say "all other things being equal".I'm certainly not a fan of the culture that still exists in some places that simply being present all hours means you're doing more than someone else - you may be more visible but it doesn't mean you're achieving more.
I've worked in the chemical and pharma industry for the last 17 years.
Aside from working on the shop floor, or the more basic office jobs, almost nobody leaves when they are supposed to.
Anyone in a management, engineering, or HSE role seems to be so swamped with work that they have to work over for no extra. There is simply not enough time in the day to cover the basics, let alone projects etc. Of course this breeds the cycle of extending actions and moving deadlines, and the usual discussions about time management every few years.
I don't know if it is just the companies I have worked for that are chronically under resourced or if it is endemic of the industry, but several I have spoken to tell a similar tale.
Aside from working on the shop floor, or the more basic office jobs, almost nobody leaves when they are supposed to.
Anyone in a management, engineering, or HSE role seems to be so swamped with work that they have to work over for no extra. There is simply not enough time in the day to cover the basics, let alone projects etc. Of course this breeds the cycle of extending actions and moving deadlines, and the usual discussions about time management every few years.
I don't know if it is just the companies I have worked for that are chronically under resourced or if it is endemic of the industry, but several I have spoken to tell a similar tale.
I probably do an extra hour a day or a little more, but I'm contracted 9-5 and only work down the road so it's no problem. I also think when you earn a reasonable salary, it's not unreasonable to put a few extra hours in (to an extent of course).
My problem at the moment is that my boss moved on, so his 40+ hours of work a week have been spread between a few of us, so we're always behind, which is frustrating when working very hard and quality slips.
My problem at the moment is that my boss moved on, so his 40+ hours of work a week have been spread between a few of us, so we're always behind, which is frustrating when working very hard and quality slips.
Moonhawk said:
Hardly a new thing - I have experienced various degrees of this right through my career.
The contract for my current job even has a clause essentially requiring this (and it's not the first job I have had with such a clause).
I have worked in a number of places where it was looked down on and commented on if you only worked your contracted hours.............and I have yet to work anywhere where business travel outside work hours (even at weekends) was officially recognised and recompensed.
I get all traveling hours as time off in lieu. It's what unions used to do.The contract for my current job even has a clause essentially requiring this (and it's not the first job I have had with such a clause).
I have worked in a number of places where it was looked down on and commented on if you only worked your contracted hours.............and I have yet to work anywhere where business travel outside work hours (even at weekends) was officially recognised and recompensed.
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 19th October 22:49
If youve got loads of staff all doing unpaid overtime it is going to give those at the top of a company a very false picture of how that company is actually performing ie; there is such a volume of work to be done but somehow my team is coping in the allotted hours (most bosses wont have a clue about you working extra as they usually blaze at 5).
why hire more headcount (clearly the volume of work exists otherwise we wouldnt have to put in more hours - right?)
if your existing team "seems" to be handling everything fine thank you very much. Its wrong. Its the wrong way to run a business but I suspect businesses up and down the land rely on peoples good nature because they know a lot of people fear for their jobs. Not a healthy way to do things.
for me salaried staff not getting paid for additional hours was the start of the thin end of the wedge where we now have zero hours/gig economy/race to the bottom.
This is the norm in retail. There are companies out there who just couldn't exist of they had to pay staff properly - it's that simple.
I am KPI'd on hourly paid vs salaried staff, contact hours are capped well below available hours etc... It would cost my company an extra £10m p/a to pay everyone for every hour they work (they've literally done the sums). To put that into context a fall in profits of £4m wiped £10 off the share value in one day.
I am KPI'd on hourly paid vs salaried staff, contact hours are capped well below available hours etc... It would cost my company an extra £10m p/a to pay everyone for every hour they work (they've literally done the sums). To put that into context a fall in profits of £4m wiped £10 off the share value in one day.
hooblah said:
What's the law on travel time to and from work? I vaguely remember something about a new law that was coming in to say it counts as working time.
I don't mind working longer hours than stated on my contract, but I expect to be paid for it. If not, I'll walk.
interested to know what you do for a job?I don't mind working longer hours than stated on my contract, but I expect to be paid for it. If not, I'll walk.
HantsRat said:
I don't agree with any of the above to be honest unless you run your own business. Why give all this extra time for nothing just for the bosses to earn more money. It's not far off slave labor.
Family/personal time is always more important than a business... especially a business you don't own.
Probably depends on whether you want to work as part of a team or just want a job that pays you by the hour.Family/personal time is always more important than a business... especially a business you don't own.
I've always worked as part of a team, it's far more enjoyable and gives great satisfaction. Usually I've worked a few extra hours, but then taken time off, fairly easily, if it was necessary.
If you want a job where you work by the clock all the time then you won't be a team player and might as well do any basic job that just pays per hour/minute.
mcg_ said:
hooblah said:
What's the law on travel time to and from work? I vaguely remember something about a new law that was coming in to say it counts as working time.
I don't mind working longer hours than stated on my contract, but I expect to be paid for it. If not, I'll walk.
interested to know what you do for a job?I don't mind working longer hours than stated on my contract, but I expect to be paid for it. If not, I'll walk.
Recently it’s been deemed it should be rolled out to anyone without a perminant base as commutes to different premises in their daily duty, IE a traveling salesman, mobile carer, service engineer etc
I think it’s fair, and I get around £6k a year from it
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff