Arriving at work early

[cat with a hat]

Zor600 said:

Hi all,

So for years at my workplace colleagues have had to arrive approx 15 min before their start time to set up they’re computers (they take at least 10 mins to boot up due to the age of them).
For example, if you start at 8, you must arrive at 7.45. If you arrive at 8, you are classed as late as you cannot sign in at 8 due to the systems not being up.

Is this allowed? We don’t get paid for this extra 15 min

Certainly sounds like the dark ages.

How about you don't shut down the computers every night or tell them to "warm them up" for your arrival?

[thebraketester]

El stovey said:

thebraketester said:

I usually get to work about 30 mins early and go for a pint.

Pilot or doctor?

[James_B]

Countdown said:

Conversely, what happens if you’re perfectly happy with the job that you’re doing, you like your team, you tolerate your boss, the money pays for a nice home/car/ couple of holidays a year, the Mrs works part time so it’s all comfortable thanks?

Then that’s great, but you have to be a bit “special” to think that salaried people (I.e. not on an hourly rate) are being taken for mugs for doing hours that don’t match their contract.

It’s how some jobs work, very good pay, but with it being normal to work a longer week.

You’re no more of a mug being contracted to 37 hours, working 50, and being paid £250,000 a year than you are by working exactly what your contract says and getting £10 an hour.

Some posters above seem to think that nearly everyone in the law, medicine, banking etc must be a mug as they’ve chosen to do the extra hours in order to do well in a job that pays such good money.

I just don’t see it.

[fttm]

I've always started work early . One of my pet hates is lateness and trying to catch up where with an early start I can be in front of myself , maybe I'm weird but it's worked so far . What goes around comes around in the long term , no big deal putting in extra effort when it pays off later .
At one time I had to join a union for 12 months , almost lost the will to live with their work ethic . Thankfully well behind me now as a grim memory .

[Notreallymeeither]

The answer is “no”, the company cannot do this - they should be paying you contractually for those extra 15 minutes a day.

Not sure of pay levels / arrangements etc at your place or work, but the company risks being investigated, fined and named and shamed by HMRC

See here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nearly-200-empl...

[GT03ROB]

Notreallymeeither said:

The answer is “no”, the company cannot do this - they should be paying you contractually for those extra 15 minutes a day.

Not sure of pay levels / arrangements etc at your place or work, but the company risks being investigated, fined and named and shamed by HMRC

See here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nearly-200-empl...

Not sure HMRC are interested.

I guess I've never worked in an environment where people are strict on start finish times, you get in when you get in you leave when you feel you've done a fair days work. It's give & take, but I find those that show the most rigidity generally do less well. However I do feel that if you need to be in 15mins early to get set up that should be on the companies dime.

[Gary29]

James_B said:

Some posters above seem to think that nearly everyone in the law, medicine, banking etc must be a mug as they’ve chosen to do the extra hours in order to do well in a job that pays such good money.

I think we all get that, we just don't need the willy waving when it's pretty clear that the OP isn't in that position and was asking a question about being FORCED to work longer than his contracted hours of work.

[djc206]

James_B said:

Then that’s great, but you have to be a bit “special” to think that salaried people (I.e. not on an hourly rate) are being taken for mugs for doing hours that don’t match their contract.

It’s how some jobs work, very good pay, but with it being normal to work a longer week.

You’re no more of a mug being contracted to 37 hours, working 50, and being paid £250,000 a year than you are by working exactly what your contract says and getting £10 an hour.

Some posters above seem to think that nearly everyone in the law, medicine, banking etc must be a mug as they’ve chosen to do the extra hours in order to do well in a job that pays such good money.

I just don’t see it.

If you are routinely required for 50hrs per week then that should be what you’re contracted to work. It’s utterly bizarre that people are routinely employed on contracts for fewer hours when it’s abundantly clear to both parties that far more hours are going to need to be worked. Why not just be clear about what is expected and get it in writing?

Most people working the extra hours aren’t earning big bucks, it’s seemingly common in all industries and all pay grades.

[romeogolf]

Zor600 said:

Hi all,

So for years at my workplace colleagues have had to arrive approx 15 min before their start time to set up they’re computers (they take at least 10 mins to boot up due to the age of them).
For example, if you start at 8, you must arrive at 7.45. If you arrive at 8, you are classed as late as you cannot sign in at 8 due to the systems not being up.

Is this allowed? We don’t get paid for this extra 15 min

Being asked to come in early due to old equipment would not be legally allowed. Expecting staff to get in early enough to remove their coat, make a cuppa, if they want one, and sit at their desk ready for their designated start time though is completely acceptable

[Tired_Peter]

Out of curiosity, as there seems to be a lot of opinions here, what about people who start come into work just in time but then make a cup of tea/coffee, then spend 10 minutes in the toilet? Worked in a place where people did that, for me I've always got into work early no matter where I've worked.

I don't think you should be held to going to into into work early, it's more of a choice but shows how much you care about your work. If you're busy watching the minutes then can you clearly say you're working 100% during your contracted hours?

[Tall_Paul]

The biggest issue I see is that you're using PC's that take TEN MINUTES to boot up!!!!

How old are these machines? Are they still running windows 98?

Even on a bog standard mechanical HDD and with various network log ons/bitlocker etc boot time should be a few minutes at complete worst case. With an SSD it's literally 20 seconds to boot.

Good luck getting an extra 15 minutes a day pay out of your employer if they haven't upgraded the computers for 5/10 years.

Or, you know - don't shut down the PC's overnight? They shouldn't be shut down anyway as normally windows updates etc are pushed out overnight - but then I'm guess updating software isn't a priority either...

Edited by Tall_Paul on Wednesday 24th October 10:41

[Jasandjules]

mrtwisty said:

Hahaha, it never gets old does it?

Go on then Mr Big Spuds, what's this incredibly important life and death thing you do then?

Stuffs teddy bears?

[Jasandjules]

James_B said:

You’re no more of a mug being contracted to 37 hours, working 50, and being paid £250,000 a year than you are by working exactly what your contract says and getting £10 an hour.

This always amuses me. I used to work for a firm where everyone, and I mean everyone, was out the door at 4pm. The bloke who reported directly to the board would at 3.50pm be packed and sat with his feet on the desk just waiting until 4om on a Friday. This was a bloke on rather more than the 250k above too..... It was pretty odd to me at first but I got used to it, along with the beer/pizzas some afternoons....

[boyse7en]

James_B said:

Then that’s great, but you have to be a bit “special” to think that salaried people (I.e. not on an hourly rate) are being taken for mugs for doing hours that don’t match their contract.

It’s how some jobs work, very good pay, but with it being normal to work a longer week.

You’re no more of a mug being contracted to 37 hours, working 50, and being paid £250,000 a year than you are by working exactly what your contract says and getting £10 an hour.

Some posters above seem to think that nearly everyone in the law, medicine, banking etc must be a mug as they’ve chosen to do the extra hours in order to do well in a job that pays such good money.

I just don’t see it.

I think the difference is choice.
If you are in a high-flying role earning six-figs or don't get out of bed for less than £600 per day or whatever, you can choose to work the extra (unpaid) time to either progress your career or justify your current salary or just because you love doing your job.

The OP's situation is different in that he is being told to work extra unpaid time, not choosing to do it.

[Moonhawk]

I worked in a call centre that had a similar policy.

You had to be at your desk with the computer booted up and ready to take the first call precisely at your alloted start time otherwise you were in for a bking.

Also worked in a shop, shelf stacking in the evenings when I was younger. The manager wouldnt let us finish stacking until our official finish time, but we would then have to clear the shop of rubbish, mop the floors and lock up (which could take half an hour or more each night).

None of this was paid.

My current site has a bizzare system. Even though you clock in and clock out - so they know exactly when you are on site. If you go off site during the day for any duration, they automatically dock you 1 hour.

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 24th October 12:31

[Tall_Paul]

Moonhawk said:

I worked in a call centre that had a similar policy.

You had to be at your desk with the computer booted up and ready to take the first call precisely at your alloted start time otherwise you were in for a bking.

Also worked in a shop, shelf stacking in the evenings when I was younger. The manager wouldnt let us finish stacking until our official finish time, but we would then have to clear the shop of rubbish, mop the floors and lock up (which could take half an hour or more each night).

None of this was paid.

I also worked in a call centre that had similar rules, however the be signed in and ready to take your first call at 9am rule is there for a reason and is reasonable, we had to be signed in at 8:59am - 8:59 and 59 seconds was still OK, so you could arrive at your desk at 8:59, sign in and turn on the PC, and take the first call while the PC was booting up/signing you in If the phones open at 9am you have to have people there to take the calls. What was less great however, was the monitored 'personal' time - i.e. the time you were allowed off the phones to take a dump. More than 15 minutes a day and you got called up on it. No playing angry birds on the stter in that workplace!!! They also had rules in the admin areas, no talking to each other allowed. It was like a morgue down there, everyone just had earphones in listening to music.

My time at that place was spent waiting for the next break time, then lunch, then the afternoon break, then hometime. Just wishing the hours away.

[tighnamara]

The Selfish Gene said:

I take my hat off to you doing that role.

So, surely it just comes down to a paper exercise of the contract?

If I wanted my people to be in at 08:45 for a 9am start I would put it into the contract. I mean I don't have to, because it's clearly a different way of thinking.

If I did though, then they would turn up at that time?

Or are we saying - they would demand an extra 15 minutes of pay pro-rata? Or refuse to take the job because they have to get out of bed 15 minutes earlier?

I really don't understand the concept of how clock watching people are.

Then I guess I wouldn't. It's not who I am.

It is also give and take - I'm flying to Rome on Friday, and I'll be getting paid for that, as I've done more hours during the week.

It's all just so petty - this whole 15 minutes here and there st. INMHO

MY PEOPLE, you are so up your self.................

It is who you are though, otherwise you wouldn't be taking paid time off back to compensate for your additional hours worked.

So you get additional hours worked back, the OP 's company obviously does not give back the additional hours worked so you can understand the clock watching.
It has to work both ways...........
................... 15 minutes a day for 1 year adds up to quite a bit of additional time (more than a working week) where no pay or time off is received back.

Bit of double standards................from you there.

I am all for give and take and the industry I work in is like that and I accept and work as required but there are jobs out there where only the company benefit.

Edited by tighnamara on Wednesday 24th October 12:48

Edited by tighnamara on Wednesday 24th October 12:49

[HantsRat]

I stated this in the other read but my personal opinion is that unless you own the company yourself, working for free is just ridiculous. You are simply just making someone else more money and getting nothing in return. Value your home life and start at your start time and go home at your finish time.

There are obviously the odd occasions where you may need to stay late but on a daily/weekly basis? No chance.

[boyse7en]

HantsRat said:

I stated this in the other read but my personal opinion is that unless you own the company yourself, working for free is just ridiculous. You are simply just making someone else more money and getting nothing in return. Value your home life and start at your start time and go home at your finish time.

There are obviously the odd occasions where you may need to stay late but on a daily/weekly basis? No chance.

Same here.
I'm contracts for a 40 hour week. I put in unpaid overtime before we do a show once or twice a year as it is a busy time and the work needs doing. Rest of the time I'm out of the door at 5pm to go to the beach, mountain biking with the kids or to do some gardening or whatever. I've got a huge number of things i enjoy doing more than sitting at a desk.

[HTP99]

I'm sure that either Lidl or Aldi were reported for something similar last year; all staff on a shift had to arrive 15 minutes before their official start time for their pre shift debrief, it was deemed illegal as they weren't being paid IIRC.