The decline of the professional
Discussion
I personally think the previous generation have sold the future generation down the river - well mainly the banks...
Inflated house prices - who really benefits? not the home owner as the next one just costs more, unless you downsize. The main benefiter? The banks with an increased borrowing levels. The boom in house prices was seen as a good thing by many - I personally think it was nearly as bad as a crash.. Consistent modest growth is far more sustainable.
Final Salary pensions? They were sustainable for decades. Then the rules changed, businesses were allowed to underfund them, and suddenly the final salary schemes are too expensive. Who benefited from the underfunding? The management delivered better results, and presumably better dividends to the shareholders - investment funds/banks....
Inflated house prices - who really benefits? not the home owner as the next one just costs more, unless you downsize. The main benefiter? The banks with an increased borrowing levels. The boom in house prices was seen as a good thing by many - I personally think it was nearly as bad as a crash.. Consistent modest growth is far more sustainable.
Final Salary pensions? They were sustainable for decades. Then the rules changed, businesses were allowed to underfund them, and suddenly the final salary schemes are too expensive. Who benefited from the underfunding? The management delivered better results, and presumably better dividends to the shareholders - investment funds/banks....
surveyor said:
I personally think the previous generation have sold the future generation down the river - well mainly the banks...
Inflated house prices - who really benefits? not the home owner as the next one just costs more, unless you downsize. The main benefiter? The banks with an increased borrowing levels. The boom in house prices was seen as a good thing by many - I personally think it was nearly as bad as a crash.. Consistent modest growth is far more sustainable.
I've never done the sums, but my first house in 1986 cost £30,000, but the interest rate was 18%. What value of house would those repayments get today, (and wage inflation adjusted) £200,000-£250,000? Inflated house prices - who really benefits? not the home owner as the next one just costs more, unless you downsize. The main benefiter? The banks with an increased borrowing levels. The boom in house prices was seen as a good thing by many - I personally think it was nearly as bad as a crash.. Consistent modest growth is far more sustainable.
PHuzzy said:
My job title is 'engineer' but I see myself more as a technician, I have no degree but I do engineer things. I'd just prefer the term to be protected as it is in Germany.
This is key to the OP; in the UK, the title Engineer is unprotected and thus it’s practice is unregulated. This, some would say, means engineering is not a ‘profession ‘, unlike say being a doctor, dentist or an accountant.rog007 said:
PHuzzy said:
My job title is 'engineer' but I see myself more as a technician, I have no degree but I do engineer things. I'd just prefer the term to be protected as it is in Germany.
This is key to the OP; in the UK, the title Engineer is unprotected and thus it’s practice is unregulated. This, some would say, means engineering is not a ‘profession ‘, unlike say being a doctor, dentist or an accountant.2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I've never done the sums, but my first house in 1986 cost £30,000, but the interest rate was 18%. What value of house would those repayments get today, (and wage inflation adjusted) £200,000-£250,000?
I've mentioned this before on PH, but I would be utterly ecstatic at the prospect of 18% interest rates for a few years, if this was followed by house price inflation of ~400%+ over the following 15 years (i.e mirroring the late 80s to mid 2000s).2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I've never done the sums, but my first house in 1986 cost £30,000, but the interest rate was 18%. What value of house would those repayments get today, (and wage inflation adjusted) £200,000-£250,000?
1986 house £30,000.In 2017, adjusted for economic inflation (BoE calculator) £83,750
Salary (£30,000) Adjusted for wage inflation (iCalculator) £69,000
Adjusted for house price inflation (Nationwide BS, UK average) £173,000
Not sure it answers your question, but it was an interesting exercise!
It is always down to the market and opportunities.
I have a PhD in material science related to defense & security and I struggle to get a job 1 year ago. I was unemployed for a year, while my friend who study cyber defense and security got a job before he graduate.
I have an job offer eventually but earning 1/3 less than a friend with a Master in electric engineering.
There is another friend who work in similar PhD with me, he start his own cyber security company and now earning 10 times of what I earn.
Sometime is just wrong timing, shrinking market, limited career paths etc. Hard working, qualification, experience never always guarantee reward. If you feel you are not getting what you deserve, may be it is time to move to a different path.
I have a PhD in material science related to defense & security and I struggle to get a job 1 year ago. I was unemployed for a year, while my friend who study cyber defense and security got a job before he graduate.
I have an job offer eventually but earning 1/3 less than a friend with a Master in electric engineering.
There is another friend who work in similar PhD with me, he start his own cyber security company and now earning 10 times of what I earn.
Sometime is just wrong timing, shrinking market, limited career paths etc. Hard working, qualification, experience never always guarantee reward. If you feel you are not getting what you deserve, may be it is time to move to a different path.
Caddyshack said:
Do you have a degree in being a t
t? What a horrid response. Some of the best engineers in the world will not have a degree. It is the attitude that determins the altitude, not the exams and you have a severely bad attitude.
True, but it's naïve to say that the exams don't help to open doors for you, especially in the early years. t? What a horrid response. Some of the best engineers in the world will not have a degree. It is the attitude that determins the altitude, not the exams and you have a severely bad attitude.For what it's worth, in many countries such as Germany and Italy, engineer is actually a protected title, for which you do need to meet certain minimum qualifications before you can call yourself "Engineer Mario Schmidt". In the UK, it's been diluted so that every man and his dog can be called an engineer, so it's a fair question to ask to see where about in the engineering spectrum the OP is, to determine whether his (or her) career expectations are realistic.
I always think about Technician/Engineer as like Nurse/Doctor. There's nothing wrong with being a nurse, they're fabulous hard-working clever people and by god we need more of them. But if one started calling themselves Doctor without the right qualifications, you'd raise some eyebrows.
That's not to say that a person qualified as a technician wouldn't know more and be better at "engineering" a solution than a new uni graduate.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is true, although for most people it was more an accidental by product of other people's policies, rather than anything individuals themselves did. They were lucky to be in the right place at the right time. Over the last 10 years the rise in share values and house prices has been driven mainly by the trillions of dollars of QE which has only benefited those who already owned the assets. The politicians, wanting to convey favour, have bought votes with the triple-lock on pensions, the winter heating allowance, and protecting NHS money for an ageing population, while at the same time cutting services used by younger people, increasing university fees, and increases in VAT and income tax.
It no wonder young people feel somewhat aggrieved. The pensions those in their 60's are receiving, possibly for the next 30 years, will dwarf anything someone under 30 can hope for, and there is a real feeling that the millennials are having to work for mediocre wages, simply to support the older population. Hence the rise of Corbyn, and the desire for change. Brexit certainly hasnt bridge the generational divide either.
kurokawa said:
It is always down to the market and opportunities.
I have a PhD in material science related to defense & security and I struggle to get a job 1 year ago. I was unemployed for a year, while my friend who study cyber defense and security got a job before he graduate.
I have an job offer eventually but earning 1/3 less than a friend with a Master in electric engineering.
There is another friend who work in similar PhD with me, he start his own cyber security company and now earning 10 times of what I earn.
Sometime is just wrong timing, shrinking market, limited career paths etc. Hard working, qualification, experience never always guarantee reward. If you feel you are not getting what you deserve, may be it is time to move to a different path.
Where are you based? I might be able to help.I have a PhD in material science related to defense & security and I struggle to get a job 1 year ago. I was unemployed for a year, while my friend who study cyber defense and security got a job before he graduate.
I have an job offer eventually but earning 1/3 less than a friend with a Master in electric engineering.
There is another friend who work in similar PhD with me, he start his own cyber security company and now earning 10 times of what I earn.
Sometime is just wrong timing, shrinking market, limited career paths etc. Hard working, qualification, experience never always guarantee reward. If you feel you are not getting what you deserve, may be it is time to move to a different path.
Mike
Sparkzz said:
I'm a Chartered Engineer.
I have a BEng and MSc . am looking at studying for a further post-grad (in something other than Engineering)
I'm BEng, CEng, MBA, FIMechE. I've never written that down before! I'm a believer in no quals on business cards, despite having worked in China for 18 months ;-).I have a BEng and MSc . am looking at studying for a further post-grad (in something other than Engineering)
For further post-grad study, how about ACCA? I've just started the year 2 study...
Evanivitch said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I've never done the sums, but my first house in 1986 cost £30,000, but the interest rate was 18%. What value of house would those repayments get today, (and wage inflation adjusted) £200,000-£250,000?
1986 house £30,000.In 2017, adjusted for economic inflation (BoE calculator) £83,750
Salary (£30,000) Adjusted for wage inflation (iCalculator) £69,000
Adjusted for house price inflation (Nationwide BS, UK average) £173,000
Not sure it answers your question, but it was an interesting exercise!
Thankyou4calling said:
Evanivitch said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I've never done the sums, but my first house in 1986 cost £30,000, but the interest rate was 18%. What value of house would those repayments get today, (and wage inflation adjusted) £200,000-£250,000?
1986 house £30,000.In 2017, adjusted for economic inflation (BoE calculator) £83,750
Salary (£30,000) Adjusted for wage inflation (iCalculator) £69,000
Adjusted for house price inflation (Nationwide BS, UK average) £173,000
Not sure it answers your question, but it was an interesting exercise!
At the same time, in 1986, you had a salary of £30k. In 2017, adjusting for wage inflation, that salary is £69k.
So house prices have gone up by 576% in 31 years, while wages have only gone up by 230%. That is why first time buyers find it such a big hurdle to get on the housing ladder, and the wealth has been concentrated in the hands of those who already own assets, rather than those who have worked hard.
Thankyou4calling said:
An average salary in 2018 is less than £30,000 though so i think if you were earning £15,000 you’d be doing well in 1986.
Not really the point.It's the rate in which living costs and housing prices have vastly out-grown salary growth.
£15k, £30k, £60k, it all grows at the same rate historically.
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