The decline of the professional

[johnwilliams77]

StevieBee said:

I'm sure Fridaypassion can speak for himself but I agree and understand the notion.

Benchmarking one's level is success is completely arbitrary and depends very much on the context and the position you view things from. For example, which of the following is more successful:

1: A couple in their mid 40s living in a nice three bed semi on which they've paid off the mortgage driving a five year old Mondeo that they paid cash for.

Or..

2: A couple in their mid 40s living in a vast 6 bed home in a gated community on which they are paying £2.5k a month mortgage on and will be for the next 15 years driving a BMW M4 on a £1k a month PCP?

On the assumption that the second couple can afford it, one might reasonably suggest they are they more successful and they might agree. But the first couple are likely to have higher levels of disposal income and less stress so they may argue that they are the most successful

In truth, both are successful and benchmarking where you compare your success to others is dependant upon what you consider to be the definition of success.

Neither one is more successful to me. If one wants to live like a miser to pay off the mortgage, crack on. If one wants to spend it all to own big bhp and champers, crack on.

[MC Bodge]

johnwilliams77 said:

Neither one is more successful to me. If one wants to live like a miser to pay off the mortgage, crack on. If one wants to spend it all to own big bhp and champers, crack on.

Yes, it all depends upon what you like doing.

Time to pursue non work interests is more important than a bit more cash for some people.

If the house is big enough to accommodate you and your family without tiny rooms or crowding, why have a massive one?

You don't need to live like a miser,there are shades of grey...

[fridaypassion]

StevieBee said:

I'm sure Fridaypassion can speak for himself but I agree and understand the notion.

Benchmarking one's level is success is completely arbitrary and depends very much on the context and the position you view things from. For example, which of the following is more successful:

1: A couple in their mid 40s living in a nice three bed semi on which they've paid off the mortgage driving a five year old Mondeo that they paid cash for.

Or..

2: A couple in their mid 40s living in a vast 6 bed home in a gated community on which they are paying £2.5k a month mortgage on and will be for the next 15 years driving a BMW M4 on a £1k a month PCP?

On the assumption that the second couple can afford it, one might reasonably suggest they are they more successful and they might agree. But the first couple are likely to have higher levels of disposal income and less stress so they may argue that they are the most successful

In truth, both are successful and benchmarking where you compare your success to others is dependant upon what you consider to be the definition of success.

This sums it up. What is success? A lot of us will spend a lifetime trying to define it. Success isn't what I thought it was before I became "successful" and success will mean different things to different people. My own view on success changes as time goes on too. Being fit and healthy is success. Minimising stress is a route to success also.

One thing that's for sure is that envy or this thing of benchmarking yourself vs people you view as similar to you is not healthy. You never know what someone's situation is.

If you can provide for yourself and your family and do something you enjoy as work that's success. If you can drive to work in a gt3 that's just a bonus. Not worrying about all this BS is success in itself.

[lyonspride]

Engineers are treated like sh*t in the UK, we're disposable labour and because the term "engineer" is so misused, we're seen on the same level as a washing machine repairman.

Experienced engineers demand too high pay and refuse to simply nod and agree with unskilled managers making very poor decisions.
This is why everyone wants graduates, they're cheap to hire (£18k), they don't ask questions, they're to naive to fight back when the blame train comes their way and they're cheap to replace.

I've had a situation where I caught 3 "academic" colleagues in the engineering office (my last job), basically stating that I have not earned the knowledge that I have. So I can do the job, better than they can, but I shouldn't be there because I didn't join the skipping lectures, getting pissed, stoned and doing gap yah club.... Bunch of c*nts.
These people wouldn't even leave the office to get their hands dirty...........

[MC Bodge]

lyonspride said:

I've had a situation where I caught 3 "academic" colleagues in the engineering office (my last job), basically stating that I have not earned the knowledge that I have. So I can do the job, better than they can, but I shouldn't be there because I didn't join the skipping lectures, getting pissed, stoned and doing gap yah club.... Bunch of c*nts.
These people wouldn't even leave the office to get their hands dirty...........

I did engineering at a "posh" university. I have been known to get my hands dirty.

Do.you have a chip on your shoulder?

[kurokawa]

lyonspride said:

Engineers are treated like sh*t in the UK, we're disposable labour and because the term "engineer" is so misused, we're seen on the same level as a washing machine repairman.

try being a scientist, you will be grateful you choice the path of an engineer

[Countdown]

lyonspride said:

Engineers are treated like sh*t in the UK, we're disposable labour and because the term "engineer" is so misused, we're seen on the same level as a washing machine repairman.

Perhaps if the title “Engineer” was protected then it would have more value i.e. you can only call yourself that if you’re a member of an Engineering institution?

Anybody can call themselves an Accountant but I think most people know the difference and extra value of a Chartered Accountant.

[GT03ROB]

Countdown said:

Perhaps if the title “Engineer” was protected then it would have more value i.e. you can only call yourself that if you’re a member of an Engineering institution?

Anybody can call themselves an Accountant but I think most people know the difference and extra value of a Chartered Accountant.

Aren't you arguing against yourself there. Anybody can call themselves an engineer, but there is also the phrase Chartered Engineer. So why do you see the difference?

[av185]

fridaypassion said:

If you can drive to work in a gt3 that's just a bonus. Not worrying about all this BS is success in itself.

Driving a GT3 to work is stressful!

[Countdown]

GT03ROB said:

Countdown said:

Perhaps if the title “Engineer” was protected then it would have more value i.e. you can only call yourself that if you’re a member of an Engineering institution?

Anybody can call themselves an Accountant but I think most people know the difference and extra value of a Chartered Accountant.

Aren't you arguing against yourself there. Anybody can call themselves an engineer, but there is also the phrase Chartered Engineer. So why do you see the difference?

Perhaps didn't phrase it correctly

I think both terms should be legally protected.

[h0b0]

kurokawa said:

lyonspride said:

Engineers are treated like sh*t in the UK, we're disposable labour and because the term "engineer" is so misused, we're seen on the same level as a washing machine repairman.

try being a scientist, you will be grateful you choice the path of an engineer

In my chemical engineering program we had a professor announce we had to do chemistry class across the road in the chem department. He said “look around. One day you will be their manager.”

[DeejRC]

The protected or not status has and makes bugger all difference.

We were having the same argument 20yrs ago, initially on Usenet forums and then amusingly enough online forums like PH. Actually check back in the day to Ted's time - you will find the same debate!

The market is currently in a much needed period of correction in the UK, driven ironically enough overall by Brexit. Simply put, a lot of us are coming back from Europe and overseas and into the UK because the money is now at a sensible price. Contract rates have put £10/hr in much of the higher industries.