Generation Z and interviews
Discussion
Jambo85 said:
I was taught the same kind of thing and agree that - in this country in particular - talking about money is considered somewhat vulgar and is best avoided at a job interview.
But the younger generations are challenging this sort of thing more and more, is it really unreasonable for someone to ask what they are likely to get longer term in exchange for the majority of their waking time?
When I was a graduate I approached interviews as though any hirer would be doing me a favour but I consider them two way conversations these days.
I would consider such behaviour to be a tad arrogant. The younger generation are by default just out of nappies and whilst they may be wielding a piece of paper that allegedly proves they know their sBut the younger generations are challenging this sort of thing more and more, is it really unreasonable for someone to ask what they are likely to get longer term in exchange for the majority of their waking time?
When I was a graduate I approached interviews as though any hirer would be doing me a favour but I consider them two way conversations these days.
t, the reality is that they know heehaw and they have zero life experience vs someone that's been doing the job for 20+ years and has a wealth of experience and knowledge. I wouldn't have any issue with them asking about climbing the greasy pole and pay rises if they'd been there for a year and proved themselves to be st hot at what they do, but to ask those sort of questions at the initial interview stage is (imo) foolish and has a strong likelihood of a generating a "we're sorry to inform you that you weren't successful.. good luck with your job hunting" letter.edit:typo
Edited by Lemming Train on Monday 17th December 17:29
I just think there is a shift in attitude with the younger generation on expectations compared to when I was young. Back then it was all about getting your foot in the door, keeping your head down and over time, proving your worth before getting vocal about getting ahead either in the company or financially. I've seen a few examples of people at the start of their careers asking about this sort of thing well before they have had a chance to grow.
An example, I act as a change manager on projects at work as a sideline to my IT role. We had an organisational change in a department. Basically there are 2 managers who look after about 10 teams, each consisting of 3 to 8 members. The new change was to introduce team leads on each of the teams so the staff would report to the team lead and the managers only looked after the team leads not the whole team. I interviewed everyone involved. Some were happy to put themselves forward as advancement, other not so. All fair enough so far.
I talked to a few old timers (10 years plus experience) and some were not comfortable with people management and others were thinking of applying for the lead roles but were scared they didn't have enough experience at managerial duties. I then interviewed a young lad who had been at the company for 3 days. Literally his first job and he didn't even know his way around the site as it's a big place. I went in asking how he felt and he immediately told me he was talking with his girlfriend and she wants him to apply for the lead role now that he has finished travelling and wants to settle down and climb the career ladder. I must admit to being taken aback by this. He applied and was told to learn the role first!
An example, I act as a change manager on projects at work as a sideline to my IT role. We had an organisational change in a department. Basically there are 2 managers who look after about 10 teams, each consisting of 3 to 8 members. The new change was to introduce team leads on each of the teams so the staff would report to the team lead and the managers only looked after the team leads not the whole team. I interviewed everyone involved. Some were happy to put themselves forward as advancement, other not so. All fair enough so far.
I talked to a few old timers (10 years plus experience) and some were not comfortable with people management and others were thinking of applying for the lead roles but were scared they didn't have enough experience at managerial duties. I then interviewed a young lad who had been at the company for 3 days. Literally his first job and he didn't even know his way around the site as it's a big place. I went in asking how he felt and he immediately told me he was talking with his girlfriend and she wants him to apply for the lead role now that he has finished travelling and wants to settle down and climb the career ladder. I must admit to being taken aback by this. He applied and was told to learn the role first!
If you get time, I found this video a really interesting watch. It's a good insight into "millennial's" which may help shed light on the way people think from say, generation X like me down to generation Z.
https://www.fearlessmotivation.com/2018/08/30/simo...
https://www.fearlessmotivation.com/2018/08/30/simo...
sjj84 said:
If it's not the done thing to ask about salary and benefits at interview, when exactly are you meant to discuss it?
Nobody has said that though, have they? You've just made that up. It is fine to ask about salary and benefits at the initial interview. What is not fine is to ask "when are you going to give me a payrise?" sjj84 said:
If it's not the done thing to ask about salary and benefits at interview, when exactly are you meant to discuss it? I'm consideringba change of employer, but there are so many adverts with out mention of salary.
I'd talk about salary if they bring it up, otherwise I'd wait for the offer at which point the ball's in your court anyway. I'm not bothered by benefits as a rule, but maybe pension if you're intending to stay 10 years plus.It might be considered a luxury by some, but I won't apply for an advertised role without an indication of rate. And still I find some of those lie - a year ago I was offered a role advertised at £600/day, having discussed the rate I would accept even before the interview, to be told the end client capped had their rates at £450/day for the previous 18 months.
Edited by 768 on Wednesday 19th December 07:38
Lemming Train said:
sjj84 said:
If it's not the done thing to ask about salary and benefits at interview, when exactly are you meant to discuss it?
Nobody has said that though, have they? You've just made that up. It is fine to ask about salary and benefits at the initial interview. What is not fine is to ask "when are you going to give me a payrise?" No one's doing a favour by giving you a job - its a commercial transaction. But from having been interviewed lots and also carrying out plenty, there are quite a few out there who are uncomfortable talking about money.
Lemming Train said:
sjj84 said:
If it's not the done thing to ask about salary and benefits at interview, when exactly are you meant to discuss it?
Nobody has said that though, have they? You've just made that up. It is fine to ask about salary and benefits at the initial interview. What is not fine is to ask "when are you going to give me a payrise?"Countdown said:
Lemming Train said:
sjj84 said:
If it's not the done thing to ask about salary and benefits at interview, when exactly are you meant to discuss it?
Nobody has said that though, have they? You've just made that up. It is fine to ask about salary and benefits at the initial interview. What is not fine is to ask "when are you going to give me a payrise?"The point that employers need to take note of though is that the generation in question is quickly becoming the majority of the workforce (if not already?). That means that soon everyone will be asking about pay rises, working from home, flexible hours etc., it's like having a unionised workforce.
These are the workforce you have, you can't do much about it, if you want to attract and retain the best of them then you need to adapt to their expectations. The Simon Sinek videos already posted in the thread make this point.
These are the workforce you have, you can't do much about it, if you want to attract and retain the best of them then you need to adapt to their expectations. The Simon Sinek videos already posted in the thread make this point.
Jambo85 said:
The point that employers need to take note of though is that the generation in question is quickly becoming the majority of the workforce (if not already?). That means that soon everyone will be asking about pay rises, working from home, flexible hours etc., it's like having a unionised workforce.
These are the workforce you have, you can't do much about it, if you want to attract and retain the best of them then you need to adapt to their expectations. The Simon Sinek videos already posted in the thread make this point.
Exactly. Many HR processes in organisations are still based in 1970s personnel regardless of what the sign says over the door these days. Companies need to adapt not individuals and those that do will be successful and those that don’t will die out as their workforce eventually retires. Age of the workforce should be a key metric for HR alongside a healthy turnover rate, healthy progression rate and a much lower average tenure metric than they would have had before. These are the workforce you have, you can't do much about it, if you want to attract and retain the best of them then you need to adapt to their expectations. The Simon Sinek videos already posted in the thread make this point.
Countdown said:
Lemming Train said:
sjj84 said:
If it's not the done thing to ask about salary and benefits at interview, when exactly are you meant to discuss it?
Nobody has said that though, have they? You've just made that up. It is fine to ask about salary and benefits at the initial interview. What is not fine is to ask "when are you going to give me a payrise?"Lemming Train said:
It boils down to the same thing. You're displaying an air of arrogance as you've basically decided that the job is yours before they've even offered you it (if at all). I mean how do you even know if you're going to enjoy the job and the people you're working alongside? It's just not the correct etiquette to be asking such questions at the initial interview stage and doing so is unlikely to see you get the job, unless it's a commission based sales role where such questions go with the territory.
I think you are wrong again. If you go into an interview, they are showing they may want you -otherwise why do they bother - and you are showing you are interested.
It is perfectly sensible to ask about progression. In the same way, they may ask you where you see yourself in three years in the organisation.
Your approach seems to be that they are doing you a favour by even talking to you about a job. i know this is a mindset for many, but it's not one I would use. I've always gone in assuming they want to employ me and having a sensible adult discussion about the future potential.
What industry do you work in? Maybe it is different.
Lemming Train said:
It boils down to the same thing. You're displaying an air of arrogance as you've basically decided that the job is yours before they've even offered you it (if at all). I mean how do you even know if you're going to enjoy the job and the people you're working alongside? It's just not the correct etiquette to be asking such questions at the initial interview stage and doing so is unlikely to see you get the job, unless it's a commission based sales role where such questions go with the territory.
Not the correct “etiquette” to you and I am assuming you are over 40. Things have changed, companies need to adapt and that means the people that are in them too. Your talk of “etiquette” is about as relevant in today’s world as the old “‘must wear a white shirt for an interview” and all the other crap based on decades old thinking.If you really want to get the best staff then panel interviews are irrelevant in today’s recruitment processes. Assessment centres and simulations are much more where it is at. Screening CVs and a three person panel interview as the entire recruitment process is out with the arc
craigjm said:
Lemming Train said:
It boils down to the same thing. You're displaying an air of arrogance as you've basically decided that the job is yours before they've even offered you it (if at all). I mean how do you even know if you're going to enjoy the job and the people you're working alongside? It's just not the correct etiquette to be asking such questions at the initial interview stage and doing so is unlikely to see you get the job, unless it's a commission based sales role where such questions go with the territory.
Not the correct “etiquette” to you and I am assuming you are over 40. Things have changed, companies need to adapt and that means the people that are in them too. Your talk of “etiquette” is about as relevant in today’s world as the old “‘must wear a white shirt for an interview” and all the other crap based on decades old thinking.If you really want to get the best staff then panel interviews are irrelevant in today’s recruitment processes. Assessment centres and simulations are much more where it is at. Screening CVs and a three person panel interview as the entire recruitment process is out with the arc
I would also say that it's even more important now than it was 20-30 years ago as in today's world there are often several thousand people applying for the same job so you're lucky to even get invited to an interview. Why would you f
k up your chances by turning up in some trendy attire and then go on to ask about career progression and how much they're going to be paying you in a years time? The person/people interviewing you are quite likely to be the same people whose job you're basically planning to take! How you can possibly expect that to have a good outcome I have no idea 
.The reason companies still use "decades old thinking" for their recruitment process is because it works. Get the job first, see if you like working there/they like YOU working there, then if that's all good and you've proved you're good at your job you can put yourself forward for promotion. No company can give you a meaningful answer to questions about payrises/career progression at interview stage because whether you'd get offered them would entirely depend on whether you fit in with the 'team' and whether you're any good.
If you're moving from a competitor or already possess a considerable amount of knowledge and experience in the role you're applying for, sure, in that instance it would be fine to ask these questions as you will have a proven and verifiable record, but for a kid just out of uni with nothing but a piece of paper to say he's passed an exam but has no actual experience - nope, askings those questions at interview is going to be viewed as arrogant and cocky even if it's unintentional and they're just trying to show that they're keen.
Lemming Train said:
Nice rant, but the reality is that if I show up for an interview wearing a sharp suit with white shirt vs you showing up in your trendy and hip 'up-to-the-minute' attire (because white shirts are old skool)
Who said anything about not wearing a suit and shirt? Not me craigjm said:
Not the correct “etiquette” to you and I am assuming you are over 40. Things have changed, companies need to adapt and that means the people that are in them too. Your talk of “etiquette” is about as relevant in today’s world as the old “‘must wear a white shirt for an interview” and all the other crap based on decades old thinking.
If you really want to get the best staff then panel interviews are irrelevant in today’s recruitment processes. Assessment centres and simulations are much more where it is at. Screening CVs and a three person panel interview as the entire recruitment process is out with the arc
Thought I might agree with parts of this, there are some sweeping generalisations. Not sure why you're assuming the poster above 40 and why you think that's negative? I work with some incredibly innovative and forward thinking 40+ year olds. This agrees with research that the average successful entrepreneur is 42 - so if you're assuming older means dinosaur, you're over hyping your generation. If you really want to get the best staff then panel interviews are irrelevant in today’s recruitment processes. Assessment centres and simulations are much more where it is at. Screening CVs and a three person panel interview as the entire recruitment process is out with the arc
https://www.fastcompany.com/40562554/when-it-comes...
What do you mean by assessment centres and simulations? If you mean 'tests' where you are numerically scored, and have to do group work with people you're competing against, those things are hideous. I wouldn't attend one and I'm a millennial. They are designed to thin out the numbers, especially at graduate level, nothing more. Anything that involves trying to distill people in to numbers and quantify against one another is setup to fail. It's making people in to commodities and away from genuine human interaction - it takes investment and hard work to understand people, motivations, cultural fit and capability, hence companies often getting lazy doing it. Panel interviews can work as part of the process (not the process itself), mixed with casual interviews, cases/problems, demonstrations of work etc.
I am for giving people genuine problems or small projects and seeing how they get on. You're assessing the process, not the outcome, and it can tell you a heck of a lot about a person. This doesn't work in all industries though.
Having said all of this, over 60% of jobs - and most of the best and senior jobs - are not advertised. They're won through relationships and networks.
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