Call out payments ?
Discussion
vaud said:
That might have been worth doing at the start of Dec. The issue now would be the impact on the other on-call person.
Technically it might be the right thing to do, but it may sour team relations to do it so very late in the game. Plus at a practical level there probably aren't enough people left around to authorise or make a payment.
I'd agree with that. Left it far too late to be doing the walkout now - it would just become "you left us without cover over the holidays", regardless of the reason.Technically it might be the right thing to do, but it may sour team relations to do it so very late in the game. Plus at a practical level there probably aren't enough people left around to authorise or make a payment.
For me, it would have been,
Month 1 payment missed - complain immediately, keep at them with the "salary is nothing to do with budget transfers, pay up". Mention there's no point working on-call if you're not going to be paid.
Month 2 payment missed - a simple "As you are unwilling to pay, I won't work on-call again, make other arrangements. I'll take the outstanding time as TOIL."
and I would have stuck to that. A job is an exchange of labour for reward, and they're not keeping their end of the deal.
shtu said:
vaud said:
That might have been worth doing at the start of Dec. The issue now would be the impact on the other on-call person.
Technically it might be the right thing to do, but it may sour team relations to do it so very late in the game. Plus at a practical level there probably aren't enough people left around to authorise or make a payment.
I'd agree with that. Left it far too late to be doing the walkout now - it would just become "you left us without cover over the holidays", regardless of the reason.Technically it might be the right thing to do, but it may sour team relations to do it so very late in the game. Plus at a practical level there probably aren't enough people left around to authorise or make a payment.
For me, it would have been,
Month 1 payment missed - complain immediately, keep at them with the "salary is nothing to do with budget transfers, pay up". Mention there's no point working on-call if you're not going to be paid.
Month 2 payment missed - a simple "As you are unwilling to pay, I won't work on-call again, make other arrangements. I'll take the outstanding time as TOIL."
and I would have stuck to that. A job is an exchange of labour for reward, and they're not keeping their end of the deal.
Thinking about it, it is too late to say you're not working.
Rod made for your own back.
I would have had this conversation after 2 or AT MOST 3 months.
xjay1337 said:
Yeah.
Thinking about it, it is too late to say you're not working.
Rod made for your own back.
I would have had this conversation after 2 or AT MOST 3 months.
2 months at most assuming monthly payrollThinking about it, it is too late to say you're not working.
Rod made for your own back.
I would have had this conversation after 2 or AT MOST 3 months.
1 month - we've discovered a mistake, 2 months - we're not going to fix it.
Then it would a case of no more cover until such time sir is ready for this undertaking. (You can see why I rub employers the wrong way.)
unfortunately I think matey here is making a rod for his own back as his continuation of service in full knowledge of the discrepancy of rates, could be argued to be consent. (My knowledge is more experience of how-dirty-b
ds-operate than any legal factual basis)Teddy Lop said:
2 months at most assuming monthly payroll
1 month - we've discovered a mistake, 2 months - we're not going to fix it.
Then it would a case of no more cover until such time sir is ready for this undertaking. (You can see why I rub employers the wrong way.)
unfortunately I think matey here is making a rod for his own back as his continuation of service in full knowledge of the discrepancy of rates, could be argued to be consent. (My knowledge is more experience of how-dirty-bds-operate than any legal factual basis)
Mmm, I do recall something about "Custom and practice", however, he has been regular challenging and asking "where is my money" so I doubt the firm could fall back on that provision. 1 month - we've discovered a mistake, 2 months - we're not going to fix it.
Then it would a case of no more cover until such time sir is ready for this undertaking. (You can see why I rub employers the wrong way.)
unfortunately I think matey here is making a rod for his own back as his continuation of service in full knowledge of the discrepancy of rates, could be argued to be consent. (My knowledge is more experience of how-dirty-b
ds-operate than any legal factual basis)Unfortunately he's lumbered with the on-call over the holidays, but from January 6th I still think he should be going to the MD (CEO, whatever) and explaining that it's time to tell the customers they have no cover.
Indeed, stick will be kicked up on my return, due back on the second and will give them until the sixth, the Monday which is the first proper working day and will then really make some noise about it.
Its gone on too long, they arent generally one of those companies to be dicks about stuff from what I can see, its more just that as it is out of the normal run of things nobody can get their head round it.
Not sure why the lower rate has been mentioned, thats for the folk who lock and leave from what I can see, i.e. on call for building issues, alarms going off and the like.
Its gone on too long, they arent generally one of those companies to be dicks about stuff from what I can see, its more just that as it is out of the normal run of things nobody can get their head round it.
Not sure why the lower rate has been mentioned, thats for the folk who lock and leave from what I can see, i.e. on call for building issues, alarms going off and the like.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That is my intention, dont think XJay or anyone else is pouting, I can totally see why people feel strongly about stuff like this.I am not going to let it wind me up any more than it has, I will get paid at some point, of that I am certain as I dont take kindly to getting dicked over money and to be honest I dont think that is the issue, it is more them just being hopeless.
I am going to defer until the sixth of January when most folk will be back from the break and I will then get significantly more direct.
My advice from previous experience would be to go speak to the manager responsible for the service and give them an ultimatum 1 month seems reasonable. It has dragged on too long.
Where the internal funding comes from is irrelevant and you shouldn’t have to wait for that to be sorted. End of the day it is not real money it’s internal cost transfer.
We have a similar arrangement I lost out on through tupe some years back and am now in a position to take on again but it’s 1:2 and the guys doing it don’t want to take the pay drop by going to 1:3.
Where the internal funding comes from is irrelevant and you shouldn’t have to wait for that to be sorted. End of the day it is not real money it’s internal cost transfer.
We have a similar arrangement I lost out on through tupe some years back and am now in a position to take on again but it’s 1:2 and the guys doing it don’t want to take the pay drop by going to 1:3.
andburg said:
Where the internal funding comes from is irrelevant and you shouldn’t have to wait for that to be sorted. End of the day it is not real money it’s internal cost transfer.
Yes, it shouldn't matter one iota to me how they do it, like if I get a call and re-instate the service they dont care how I fix it as long as it is fixed, I am guessing they pay external suppliers and contractors, loads of work going on and I dont think a building company doing some refurb work would accept "Sorry, cant pay you, its a bit tricky" and they wouldn't accept that from one of their customers.Handed over to me this morning as normal.
WIll get this week out of the way, let everyone get back and then make it clear it needs sorting asap.
J4CKO said:
andburg said:
Where the internal funding comes from is irrelevant and you shouldn’t have to wait for that to be sorted. End of the day it is not real money it’s internal cost transfer.
Yes, it shouldn't matter one iota to me how they do it, like if I get a call and re-instate the service they dont care how I fix it as long as it is fixed, I am guessing they pay external suppliers and contractors, loads of work going on and I dont think a building company doing some refurb work would accept "Sorry, cant pay you, its a bit tricky" and they wouldn't accept that from one of their customers.Handed over to me this morning as normal.
WIll get this week out of the way, let everyone get back and then make it clear it needs sorting asap.
TheAngryDog said:
I could do with a UK based DBA who doesn't mind on call. As above I have no budget, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. What should I put down as your start date? 
Think I know where your budget went.... 
sorry, couldnt resist...Still nothing, the manager wasnt around, the HR person was but didnt seem inclined to reply to my email from the 23rd.
Will give them a few hours on Monday to get a brew and go through their email and will be on them, think we are getting on for two and a half grand owing now.
J4CKO said:
TheAngryDog said:
I could do with a UK based DBA who doesn't mind on call. As above I have no budget, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. What should I put down as your start date?
Think I know where your budget went.... sorry, couldnt resist...Still nothing, the manager wasnt around, the HR person was but didnt seem inclined to reply to my email from the 23rd.
Will give them a few hours on Monday to get a brew and go through their email and will be on them, think we are getting on for two and a half grand owing now.
Guarantee you will get a response!
xjay1337 said:
J4CKO said:
TheAngryDog said:
I could do with a UK based DBA who doesn't mind on call. As above I have no budget, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. What should I put down as your start date?
Think I know where your budget went.... sorry, couldnt resist...Still nothing, the manager wasnt around, the HR person was but didnt seem inclined to reply to my email from the 23rd.
Will give them a few hours on Monday to get a brew and go through their email and will be on them, think we are getting on for two and a half grand owing now.
Guarantee you will get a response!
Determined to get some response next week and am not taking any more faffing about, one way or another they need to pay for what I have covered so far, over three months now since I started.
xjay1337 said:
You still haven't written a fair but firm email to your line manager and the HR person, explaining that due to non-payment of monies owed you are no longer covering on call?
Guarantee you will get a response!
But the on call is for a different department as I recall, so LM isn’t the key to this. The one that matters is whoever needs the on call for their system to keep running, they should be the one to shake the tree on your behalf. Guarantee you will get a response!
llewop said:
xjay1337 said:
You still haven't written a fair but firm email to your line manager and the HR person, explaining that due to non-payment of monies owed you are no longer covering on call?
Guarantee you will get a response!
But the on call is for a different department as I recall, so LM isn’t the key to this. The one that matters is whoever needs the on call for their system to keep running, they should be the one to shake the tree on your behalf. Guarantee you will get a response!
As soon as the account manager for the client whose system you support gets a whiff that they might have a problem, things will move. Customers are the lifeblood of companies (although it often doesn't seem like it when dealing with a large corporate). Sales departments hence have a lot more power to get things done than the people in delivery (it helps that sales attracts a certain type of person).
Find the account manager for this system and buy them a drink - then explain your tale of woe. Things are much easier when you have sales on your side.
Flooble said:
llewop said:
xjay1337 said:
You still haven't written a fair but firm email to your line manager and the HR person, explaining that due to non-payment of monies owed you are no longer covering on call?
Guarantee you will get a response!
But the on call is for a different department as I recall, so LM isn’t the key to this. The one that matters is whoever needs the on call for their system to keep running, they should be the one to shake the tree on your behalf. Guarantee you will get a response!
As soon as the account manager for the client whose system you support gets a whiff that they might have a problem, things will move. Customers are the lifeblood of companies (although it often doesn't seem like it when dealing with a large corporate). Sales departments hence have a lot more power to get things done than the people in delivery (it helps that sales attracts a certain type of person).
Find the account manager for this system and buy them a drink - then explain your tale of woe. Things are much easier when you have sales on your side.
The OP is managed by his line manager so any problems are for him to deal with.
If Overtime is not paid (as happened to me once), one email to my line manager and it was sorted within 2 hours with direct payment made to me.
The way this has been handled is a complete joke.
Progress, without any further prompts as well, last communication on the matter from me was 23rd Dec.
"I can confirm that we have / are in discussions with HR regarding your on-call support for ****. To date, we have not had approval from ******* and so it has to be referred to her manager for review. Please accept my apologies for the delay in payment."
So, looks like they have gone above the person delaying it.
"I can confirm that we have / are in discussions with HR regarding your on-call support for ****. To date, we have not had approval from ******* and so it has to be referred to her manager for review. Please accept my apologies for the delay in payment."
So, looks like they have gone above the person delaying it.
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