Health & Safety Jobsworth
Discussion
I do see how bad rules can undermine the worthwhile ones but lot of the time the reason for the rule may be very unclear, same as a lot of regulations. Behind it may be b
ks or may be someone whose kids grew up without them because of a desire to save ten quid and a few minutes effort.
We have all sorts of things that seem daft like not using mobiles when walking or always hold the handrail on stairs. Used to laugh until the lady infront went face first down the stairs and bust her hip, months off work and multiple operations. With hindsight perhaps booting her was a bit over the top but I bet she'll hold the handrail next time.
ks or may be someone whose kids grew up without them because of a desire to save ten quid and a few minutes effort. We have all sorts of things that seem daft like not using mobiles when walking or always hold the handrail on stairs. Used to laugh until the lady infront went face first down the stairs and bust her hip, months off work and multiple operations. With hindsight perhaps booting her was a bit over the top but I bet she'll hold the handrail next time.
wombleh said:
I do see how bad rules can undermine the worthwhile ones but lot of the time the reason for the rule may be very unclear, same as a lot of regulations. Behind it may be bks or may be someone whose kids grew up without them because of a desire to save ten quid and a few minutes effort.
We have all sorts of things that seem daft like not using mobiles when walking or always hold the handrail on stairs. Used to laugh until the lady infront went face first down the stairs and bust her hip, months off work and multiple operations. With hindsight perhaps booting her was a bit over the top but I bet she'll hold the handrail next time.
You really couldn't understand before why holding the handrail was a good idea until someone fell?!ks or may be someone whose kids grew up without them because of a desire to save ten quid and a few minutes effort. We have all sorts of things that seem daft like not using mobiles when walking or always hold the handrail on stairs. Used to laugh until the lady infront went face first down the stairs and bust her hip, months off work and multiple operations. With hindsight perhaps booting her was a bit over the top but I bet she'll hold the handrail next time.
Our valeters/car washers have to wear waterproofs, in case they get wet and then get a chill or something, problem is they invariably get so bloody hot that they just end up sweating, get soaking and never dry and in any case the waterproofs aren't that waterproof and they are worn undone due to getting hot, so they still get wet anyway.
They don't wear the waterproofs; that have cost alot of money, they are only worn (along with the hi viz) when the H&S guy is in.
They don't wear the waterproofs; that have cost alot of money, they are only worn (along with the hi viz) when the H&S guy is in.
johnwilliams77 said:
GT03ROB said:
So do I. Internationally we find safety stats are far worse in the US & Europe than we can achieve in the Mideast or similar.
Why? There are a bunch of know it alls that know far better than anyone else how to do their job safely in the US & Europe. Whereas elsewhere people tend to listen to advice.
Why? Because US and Europe report their incidentsWhy? There are a bunch of know it alls that know far better than anyone else how to do their job safely in the US & Europe. Whereas elsewhere people tend to listen to advice.
I'm talking one companies data from sites across middle east, central asia, Australia , far east, europe & north america. Our reporting is the same in all regions.
GT03ROB said:
No because of the reason I noted.
I'm talking one companies data from sites across middle east, central asia, Australia , far east, europe & north america. Our reporting is the same in all regions.
Rubbish - I don't trust for one second that the middle east report as consistently and as honestly as Europe and US (in fact, I know they don't for some companies). Many countries for middle east are 'no incidents no incidents, nothing, then fatality'....I'm talking one companies data from sites across middle east, central asia, Australia , far east, europe & north america. Our reporting is the same in all regions.
johnwilliams77 said:
GT03ROB said:
No because of the reason I noted.
I'm talking one companies data from sites across middle east, central asia, Australia , far east, europe & north america. Our reporting is the same in all regions.
Rubbish - I don't trust for one second that the middle east report as consistently and as honestly as Europe and US (in fact, I know they don't for some companies). Many countries for middle east are 'no incidents no incidents, nothing, then fatality'....I'm talking one companies data from sites across middle east, central asia, Australia , far east, europe & north america. Our reporting is the same in all regions.
As I said one companies data across their sites globally.
It's very easy to be ignorant to just how benign the UK is in terms of work place safety. The reason British workers are not permanently injured, disabled or dead is because of good regulation, a situation that is constantly reviewed which consistently increases the safety of people working.
Regulations though, are only as good as the robustness of their enforcement. Without this, you may as well not have any. This leads to cases such as the OPs generator in a wheelbarrow situation where on the surface it seems an innocuous and unnecessary request that flies in the face of common sense - and perhaps that is the case. But if a blind eye is turned, the extent of enforcement changes and render other similar cases unenforceable by dint of example.
My daughter is a senior Environmental Officer for a large construction firm and does the same job as a H&S assessor but for environmental compliance (interestingly thought, her department recently merged with H&S and her line manager is the H&S guy). She faces the same level of distain when she has to enact red notices (effectively shutting down operations until the problem is remedied) for things like washing out waste cement onto the ground. It's only when you understand the devastation that this causes to water treatment, agriculture, etc that you begin to understand why such a move is necessary.
All regulatory frameworks have flaws. This is why they are constantly reviewed. But it is better to have a flawed framework of regulations than none at all.
Regulations though, are only as good as the robustness of their enforcement. Without this, you may as well not have any. This leads to cases such as the OPs generator in a wheelbarrow situation where on the surface it seems an innocuous and unnecessary request that flies in the face of common sense - and perhaps that is the case. But if a blind eye is turned, the extent of enforcement changes and render other similar cases unenforceable by dint of example.
My daughter is a senior Environmental Officer for a large construction firm and does the same job as a H&S assessor but for environmental compliance (interestingly thought, her department recently merged with H&S and her line manager is the H&S guy). She faces the same level of distain when she has to enact red notices (effectively shutting down operations until the problem is remedied) for things like washing out waste cement onto the ground. It's only when you understand the devastation that this causes to water treatment, agriculture, etc that you begin to understand why such a move is necessary.
All regulatory frameworks have flaws. This is why they are constantly reviewed. But it is better to have a flawed framework of regulations than none at all.
StevieBee said:
It's very easy to be ignorant to just how benign the UK is in terms of work place safety. The reason British workers are not permanently injured, disabled or dead is because of good regulation, a situation that is constantly reviewed which consistently increases the safety of people working.
It's also surprising how relatively quickly attitudes have changed. Now the cynic might say that's only because of insurance premiums & fines, but so be it if legislation was needed to make the change. I'd rather have the overkill of today than the incidents of yesteryear. 
johnwilliams77 said:
You really couldn't understand before why holding the handrail was a good idea until someone fell?!
Ah, handrails. I am reminded of a story.Scaffolders arrive to remove scaffolding at the end of the job. as is their way, they start at the top and work their down..
Unfortunately the upper most bit of scaffolding is the handrail on the top deck and the H+S guy arrived just as that was being removed.
Well, you cant work up there without a handrail can you? The whole job was shut down until a solution could be found.
The solution was found as soon as the H+S guy drove away and the scaffolding was gone by the next morning when he came back to see how they were going to handle it.
We used to look after long troughs of plants up above the shops inside a shopping centre. They had a walkway behind that you could work on them safely from.
When I started in 2002 we would take a long ladder and use that to climb on to the balcony.
This was vetoed by the H&S man at the centre on safety grounds.
My abiding memory was the vicarious pleasure the security man seemed to gain from telling us we couldn't do the job each time.
When I started in 2002 we would take a long ladder and use that to climb on to the balcony.
This was vetoed by the H&S man at the centre on safety grounds.
- Naturally he waited until we arrived - out of hours - before security relayed his message that we couldn't do the job, so we left.
- Naturally he waited until we arrived - out of hours - before security relayed his message that we couldn't do the job, so we left.
- Naturally he waited until we arrived - out of hours - before security relayed his message that we couldn't do the job, so we left. This time I gave the security man a few choice words on communication, the result of which was H&S man rang my firm the next day and complained about my "attitude".
My abiding memory was the vicarious pleasure the security man seemed to gain from telling us we couldn't do the job each time.
WinstonWolf said:
I had someone ring up and try to tell me that I had to risk assess my workplace. I work from home 
I can go one better on that. I've had to do a load of "online" training (at home) to ensure that I'm working safely at home. No doubt all to do with keeping opportunists from putting a claim in.But they'll never stop me doing a bit of pruning up a ladder in shorts and flip-flops (no sun cream either) with a chainsaw during my lunch break.
Edited by colin_p on Tuesday 16th July 13:54
Johnnytheboy said:
was the vicarious pleasure the security man seemed to gain from telling us we couldn't do the job each time.
And this is the main problem, too many people love the power of controlling jobs with health and safety.The safest sites I have worked on are where the health and safety person was a normal person and used logic and common sense, gaining the entire workers respect in the process so there ideas were listened too and abided by.
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