Degree qualified?
Discussion
272BHP said:
Nah, I am not having that. Look at the unemployment levels in the 70s/and 80s. The despair in some places was palpable, you don't get that kind of general feeling these days and I travel a fair bit.
Free education? only the privileged few went to university in them days, no-one I knew went to university, none of my siblings, no-one in my street and no-one in my class at school.
How long ago was this? I went to secondary school in the 70s and most of my friends went to university. I can only think of one that didn't and he turned down an offer.Free education? only the privileged few went to university in them days, no-one I knew went to university, none of my siblings, no-one in my street and no-one in my class at school.
Dr Jekyll said:
272BHP said:
Nah, I am not having that. Look at the unemployment levels in the 70s/and 80s. The despair in some places was palpable, you don't get that kind of general feeling these days and I travel a fair bit.
Free education? only the privileged few went to university in them days, no-one I knew went to university, none of my siblings, no-one in my street and no-one in my class at school.
How long ago was this? I went to secondary school in the 70s and most of my friends went to university. I can only think of one that didn't and he turned down an offer.Free education? only the privileged few went to university in them days, no-one I knew went to university, none of my siblings, no-one in my street and no-one in my class at school.
Countdown said:
Dr Jekyll said:
272BHP said:
Nah, I am not having that. Look at the unemployment levels in the 70s/and 80s. The despair in some places was palpable, you don't get that kind of general feeling these days and I travel a fair bit.
Free education? only the privileged few went to university in them days, no-one I knew went to university, none of my siblings, no-one in my street and no-one in my class at school.
How long ago was this? I went to secondary school in the 70s and most of my friends went to university. I can only think of one that didn't and he turned down an offer.Free education? only the privileged few went to university in them days, no-one I knew went to university, none of my siblings, no-one in my street and no-one in my class at school.
I've worked in IT Development for nearly 20 years, last 7 as a manager. Dont have a degree. All most every job I have applied for states on the job spec must be degree educated and it's never held me back. For me now my experience trumps andy degree but even when I was less experienced people asked for it, but never really wanted it.
echazfraz said:
GT03ROB said:
I went to a standard comp. Each year had around 200 pupils, Less than 10 would make university.
Well you clearly didn't attend a grammar school with appalling grammatical errors (errors of grammar?) like that old bean!GT03ROB said:
echazfraz said:
GT03ROB said:
I went to a standard comp. Each year had around 200 pupils, Less than 10 would make university.
Well you clearly didn't attend a grammar school with appalling grammatical errors (errors of grammar?) like that old bean!Which could probably sum up this thread: degrees are going to be mandatory for some roles (doctor, architect, I guess), nice-to-have's for others, and of no consequence to some / lots / most / who knows, but it's the man or woman that has the degree who's being employed so you have to have the skills, personality and work ethic to go along with the bit of paper (or not).
To state, as some have done, that "it were better in my day" is I think missing the point. Yes there are bad grads now but I bet there were lots then too, and the jobs that required degrees then probably still do now too.
silent ninja said:
I love the "yesteryear" b
ks on this thread. <clip> ... You aren't doing well because you worked harder either. You're doing well because you've had more handed on a plate, <clip> .... Please get with reality. You won a lottery. It wasn't your talent...
Doh! You're right, it was all so easy... ks on this thread. <clip> ... You aren't doing well because you worked harder either. You're doing well because you've had more handed on a plate, <clip> .... Please get with reality. You won a lottery. It wasn't your talent... 272BHP said:
Obviously you need a degree to be a doctor or lawyer but for technical and IT related roles is a degree really necessary in 2019?
Only to get to interview stage. A lot of automated systems (or equally useless HR drones) will just dump CVs without a degree to filter applications.Getting face time is the hardest part if you don't have a degree. Not impossible but more difficult certainly.
95JO said:
Experience > qualifications
Proven time and time again... Most employers nowadays (especially in IT) are becoming more aware of this.
A qualification proves that they've reached a certain skill level in a certain area (e.g. CCNA, MCP, Oracle, Sun, Linux). Somebody saying they have 10 years experience doesn't really prove how good they are. You might be able to find out if you test them thoroughly enough but that's effectively "qualifying" them. Proven time and time again... Most employers nowadays (especially in IT) are becoming more aware of this.
In short - they're both important and one might be more important than the other depending on the role.
Countdown said:
A qualification proves that they've reached a certain skill level in a certain area (e.g. CCNA, MCP, Oracle, Sun, Linux). Somebody saying they have 10 years experience doesn't really prove how good they are. You might be able to find out if you test them thoroughly enough but that's effectively "qualifying" them.
In short - they're both important and one might be more important than the other depending on the role.
Typically looking at their CV and seeing that over those 10 years they've held down roles for at least a year (passed probation etc) at reputable companies and have progressed in terms of seniority is usually enough in my experience.In short - they're both important and one might be more important than the other depending on the role.
But I agree, it's good to have some qualifications to back this up - However, most are pointless nowadays (at least in my field), they become out of date so quickly and are largely not applicable to most business applications. Maybe a link to your personal GitHub would be better suited.
Countdown said:
A qualification proves that they've reached a certain skill level in a certain area (e.g. CCNA, MCP, Oracle, Sun, Linux). Somebody saying they have 10 years experience doesn't really prove how good they are. You might be able to find out if you test them thoroughly enough but that's effectively "qualifying" them.
In short - they're both important and one might be more important than the other depending on the role.
Qualifications are often knowledge rather than skilled based. I've come across plenty of people who have hit the books sufficiently to pass exams but can't actually do the job effectively.In short - they're both important and one might be more important than the other depending on the role.
Dr Jekyll said:
Countdown said:
A qualification proves that they've reached a certain skill level in a certain area (e.g. CCNA, MCP, Oracle, Sun, Linux). Somebody saying they have 10 years experience doesn't really prove how good they are. You might be able to find out if you test them thoroughly enough but that's effectively "qualifying" them.
In short - they're both important and one might be more important than the other depending on the role.
Qualifications are often knowledge rather than skilled based. I've come across plenty of people who have hit the books sufficiently to pass exams but can't actually do the job effectively.In short - they're both important and one might be more important than the other depending on the role.
For the avoidance of doubt I'm not disputing that experience is also important. I just think that sometimes these threads can ignore the importance of qualifications ("I left school at t' age of 15, went down t'pit, and now I'm a powerfully built Director who manages 600 t' staff"
)Countdown said:
Two areas that I'm familiar with (Finance and Law) in order to become fully qualified you actually need to demonstrate practical competence in the workplace before somebody "signs you off" as it were, so not all qualifications are purely knowledge-based. A couple of my relatives are CCNA and MCSE qualified and I don't think they would have got the technical qualification just by reading books. Both work full-time in IT and needed the practical aspects to reinforce the book learning.
For the avoidance of doubt I'm not disputing that experience is also important. I just think that sometimes these threads can ignore the importance of qualifications ("I left school at t' age of 15, went down t'pit, and now I'm a powerfully built Director who manages 600 t' staff" )
Yes and no for IT. i was self taught from books. I did learn a lot more on the job once I had started. CCNA and MCSE are just study and exam. Part of the issue you get with those is they can pass and exam, but can't apply it. There are amazing developers with MCSE, amazing ones without it and crap ones with and without. The difficulty is differentiating them.For the avoidance of doubt I'm not disputing that experience is also important. I just think that sometimes these threads can ignore the importance of qualifications ("I left school at t' age of 15, went down t'pit, and now I'm a powerfully built Director who manages 600 t' staff"
)When I hire devs I dont look for qualifications at all. Look at their experience, technical test them, interview.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff