Contractors: IR35 & general discussion

[markyb_lcy]

wormus said:

Gecko1978 said:

Its funny the chancellor is about to announce measures to help people into work, yet your average person is unaware that inside ir35 which affects upto 5m people has stripped people of all employment rights and often cut income by 50% and prevented them getting any help with furlough.

Lol you have to laugh at how a tory government is fking is core voters.

With up to 4m people out of work, 5m claiming benefit, youth unemployment at an all time high, the focus is keeping people out of poverty (including contractors) and kick starting the economy. In the grand scheme of things, nobody gives a stuff if contractor day rates have been hit.

It’s great that we have you wormus to speak for the whole working population of the uk

[aeropilot]

wormus said:

In the grand scheme of things, nobody gives a stuff if contractor day rates have been hit.

I'd be quite happy to even get a sniff of a contract job at a reduced rate......

But, there's just nothing out there.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

markyb_lcy said:

It’s great that we have you wormus to speak for the whole working population of the uk

I, for one, welcome our wormy overlord.

[Bluedot]

markyb_lcy said:

wormus said:

Gecko1978 said:

Its funny the chancellor is about to announce measures to help people into work, yet your average person is unaware that inside ir35 which affects upto 5m people has stripped people of all employment rights and often cut income by 50% and prevented them getting any help with furlough.

Lol you have to laugh at how a tory government is fking is core voters.

With up to 4m people out of work, 5m claiming benefit, youth unemployment at an all time high, the focus is keeping people out of poverty (including contractors) and kick starting the economy. In the grand scheme of things, nobody gives a stuff if contractor day rates have been hit.

It’s great that we have you wormus to speak for the whole working population of the uk

Wormus is right though, the population are never going to give a stuff about contractors and a few sound bites about 'only fair they pay same tax doing same job' and we're immediately the bad guys.
To get IR35 / Off-Payroll overturned we had to get the big clients on our side, that never happened and it was pretty much doomed from then on despite plenty of vocal support from MPs and that scathing HoL report.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Bluedot said:

Wormus is right though, the population are never going to give a stuff about contractors and a few sound bites about 'only fair they pay same tax doing same job' and we're immediately the bad guys.
To get IR35 / Off-Payroll overturned we had to get the big clients on our side, that never happened and it was pretty much doomed from then on despite plenty of vocal support from MPs and that scathing HoL report.

Yup. Nothing stirs up the general populace like stoking the fires of envy. Once the media came up with the phrase "Fat cat bankers" in 2008 then everyone knew who to blame for the Credit Crunch despite the banks just operating under the newly relaxed rules the government had introduced.

The general population won't care two stuffs about the situation of contractors once they hear "paying their fair share of tax" as their closed minds are made up by the phrase. Hell, even some of the posters in this thread are convinced there despite all the wealth of additional information provided here.

[anonymous-user]

aeropilot said:

I'd be quite happy to even get a sniff of a contract job at a reduced rate......

But, there's just nothing out there.

Indeed. And that’s the real problem here.

[markyb_lcy]

Bluedot said:

markyb_lcy said:

wormus said:

Gecko1978 said:

Its funny the chancellor is about to announce measures to help people into work, yet your average person is unaware that inside ir35 which affects upto 5m people has stripped people of all employment rights and often cut income by 50% and prevented them getting any help with furlough.

Lol you have to laugh at how a tory government is fking is core voters.

With up to 4m people out of work, 5m claiming benefit, youth unemployment at an all time high, the focus is keeping people out of poverty (including contractors) and kick starting the economy. In the grand scheme of things, nobody gives a stuff if contractor day rates have been hit.

It’s great that we have you wormus to speak for the whole working population of the uk

Wormus is right though, the population are never going to give a stuff about contractors and a few sound bites about 'only fair they pay same tax doing same job' and we're immediately the bad guys.
To get IR35 / Off-Payroll overturned we had to get the big clients on our side, that never happened and it was pretty much doomed from then on despite plenty of vocal support from MPs and that scathing HoL report.

I can't (and won't try to) speak for everyone, but my huge international client worked reasonably hard to keep me outside of IR35 in advance of April 2020. We were all ready to go with a new contract and CEST review at the point the govt postponed the action.

Frankly we don't need the support of permie tax-paying employees en-masse, but we do need the support of HR depts and big corporates. At least one welcome development being that they cannot now go for "blanket inside" type determinations.

[LeighW]

Just in case you thought that things had gone quiet on the IR35 front...

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-wins-ir35-app...

[hyphen]

LeighW said:

Just in case you thought that things had gone quiet on the IR35 front...

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-wins-ir35-app...

Surprised it went to appeal. 18 years there, 2 year contract with 4 months notice and so on.

[anonymous-user]

LeighW said:

Just in case you thought that things had gone quiet on the IR35 front...

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-wins-ir35-app...

“ Employment status is never a matter of choice; it is always dictated by the facts and when the wrong tax is being paid we put things right.’

Dave Chaplin, CEO of ContractorCalculator said: ‘This is a surprising and unexpected ruling. Some careful analysis will be required before drawing any firm conclusions on how it will impact IR35 and off-payroll for more traditional based contractors.”

Don’t see what’s surprising about it:

He’d worked there for 18 years
He was on 4m notice
He couldn’t work for anyone else
He couldn’t do the work anywhere else

It’s the piss takers that will/have ruined contracting for everyone and to suggest it’s surprising is disingenuous.

He probably has several bounce back loans too!

[Gad-Westy]

wormus said:

LeighW said:

Just in case you thought that things had gone quiet on the IR35 front...

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-wins-ir35-app...

“ Employment status is never a matter of choice; it is always dictated by the facts and when the wrong tax is being paid we put things right.’

Dave Chaplin, CEO of ContractorCalculator said: ‘This is a surprising and unexpected ruling. Some careful analysis will be required before drawing any firm conclusions on how it will impact IR35 and off-payroll for more traditional based contractors.”

Don’t see what’s surprising about it:

He’d worked there for 18 years
He was on 4m notice
He couldn’t work for anyone else
He couldn’t do the work anywhere else

It’s the piss takers that will/have ruined contracting for everyone and to suggest it’s surprising is disingenuous.

He probably has several bounce back loans too!

I agree in this case. Some cases have raised my eye brows but this one seems to me to be pretty clear.

[snuffy]

18 years at the same place. That's not really contracting.

I counted the companies up I'd worked for the other day; 20 years since I went contract, and 21 different clients, time at each one does vary of course.

[Eric Mc]

Gad-Westy said:

wormus said:

LeighW said:

Just in case you thought that things had gone quiet on the IR35 front...

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-wins-ir35-app...

“ Employment status is never a matter of choice; it is always dictated by the facts and when the wrong tax is being paid we put things right.’

Dave Chaplin, CEO of ContractorCalculator said: ‘This is a surprising and unexpected ruling. Some careful analysis will be required before drawing any firm conclusions on how it will impact IR35 and off-payroll for more traditional based contractors.”

Don’t see what’s surprising about it:

He’d worked there for 18 years
He was on 4m notice
He couldn’t work for anyone else
He couldn’t do the work anywhere else

It’s the piss takers that will/have ruined contracting for everyone and to suggest it’s surprising is disingenuous.

He probably has several bounce back loans too!

I agree in this case. Some cases have raised my eye brows but this one seems to me to be pretty clear.

I read that case today as well. I too was surprised that the original tribunal found in favour of the taxpayer.

[anonymous-user]

As usual.... it's the piss-takers like that who have ruined it for everyone.

I'm currently working on assignments for 3 different clients. Before Covid hit I was working for 2 different clients on big assignments of varying lengths that once finished, would see me move off to find a different client.

You know, like a real contractor/consultant would be doing. Not someone who was trying to pretend they weren't an employee.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Gad-Westy said:

wormus said:

LeighW said:

Just in case you thought that things had gone quiet on the IR35 front...

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-wins-ir35-app...

“ Employment status is never a matter of choice; it is always dictated by the facts and when the wrong tax is being paid we put things right.’

Dave Chaplin, CEO of ContractorCalculator said: ‘This is a surprising and unexpected ruling. Some careful analysis will be required before drawing any firm conclusions on how it will impact IR35 and off-payroll for more traditional based contractors.”

Don’t see what’s surprising about it:

He’d worked there for 18 years
He was on 4m notice
He couldn’t work for anyone else
He couldn’t do the work anywhere else

It’s the piss takers that will/have ruined contracting for everyone and to suggest it’s surprising is disingenuous.

He probably has several bounce back loans too!

I agree in this case. Some cases have raised my eye brows but this one seems to me to be pretty clear.

4Months notice! Wow - most of my contracts (direct with client) have been 1 week max (many just a day - if the project gets cancelled contractors go home ASAP)....


As you stated tossers like this are ruining contracting.

[Olivera]

Lord Marylebone said:

I'm currently working on assignments for 3 different clients. Before Covid hit I was working for 2 different clients on big assignments of varying lengths that once finished, would see me move off to find a different client.

You know, like a real contractor/consultant would be doing. Not someone who was trying to pretend they weren't an employee.

We've been over this ground many times, but number of clients and length of contract is insignificant when assessing IR35 status.

[Pit Pony]

I have a new contract starting next week. Small defence company. 2 directors, 2 employees, 2 now 3 contractors.
Because I had a heart attack 6 1/2 weeks ago, I'm starting off 2 days a week, 1 day on site, and the other hours from home remotely.
Gradually ramping up as work increases to 4 days a week, 1 on site, 3 remotely.
Outside IR35.

[LeighW]

Lord Marylebone said:

As usual.... it's the piss-takers like that who have ruined it for everyone.

I have a mate in IT who works for contracts to a company that makes trains (I won't name them, but there might be a beer with the same name)

He's been there as long as I can remember, I mean at least fifteen years, doing the same type of thing in the same place, and he doesn't do work for anyone else, yet he insists he is outside of IR35. I don't know how, I suspect there may be more than one step between him and the train manufacturer, but I'm glad he isn't my client.

[Gad-Westy]

Pit Pony said:

I have a new contract starting next week. Small defence company. 2 directors, 2 employees, 2 now 3 contractors.
Because I had a heart attack 6 1/2 weeks ago, I'm starting off 2 days a week, 1 day on site, and the other hours from home remotely.
Gradually ramping up as work increases to 4 days a week, 1 on site, 3 remotely.
Outside IR35.

Sounds like you're making a good recovery, great to hear

Outside IR35 because of the nature of work or just because it's a small firm? I only ask because I noticed that many roles advertised as 'outside IR35' prior to April were in the latter category which really just meant, 'make your own IR35 determination'. Which really applies to all private sector contract roles at present, at least until April 2021.

[CzechItOut]

I see a handful of jobs which require security clearance, but they seem to stay on the market for a while which suggests supply is slim.

Can I apply for Security Clearance myself or does it have to be via a client? If I can, has anyone done it and is it a ballache?