Contractors: IR35 & general discussion
Discussion
My headline is “independent technical consultant” or words to that effect.
My business is listed with director/owner title as the top-most job. I’ve listed engagements and categorised them as “contract” if fixed term / rolling contracts or “freelance” if it’s ad-hoc associate type work.
I think that fairly accurately reflects what I’m doing.
My business is listed with director/owner title as the top-most job. I’ve listed engagements and categorised them as “contract” if fixed term / rolling contracts or “freelance” if it’s ad-hoc associate type work.
I think that fairly accurately reflects what I’m doing.
Edited by theboss on Wednesday 26th August 15:36
CzechItOut said:
How do people structure their LinkedIn profile? Do you list each client and role with specific dates or do you put everything under Founder/MD of Whatever Limited and then say role x at global FMCG, role y at High Street retailer and so on?
I list the client, and the role but put contractor in brackets. It makes it easier for people to find me.Blown2CV said:
i work for a consulting firm and have exact same issue with describing my roles in LinkedIn, CV etc as i tend to do 'staff augmentation' type roles.
The issue I've had in the past is working ad-hoc for consultancies and PS arms of vendors who want you to wear their cap to the end client's site.By avoiding any implied 'roles' on Linked-in and being completely transparent about freelance affiliation it puts the ball in their court as I won't pretend I'm anything other than an independent subcontractor. Pre-LinkedIn they used to always ask but now I guess they check my public profile first and don't bother (or care).
Edited by theboss on Thursday 27th August 00:21
aeropilot said:
SMG Eddie said:
markyb_lcy said:
Incorrect, did you read the whole of my post?
If you're saying PAYE rates are 30-35k then £250 a day is equivalent to a ~£44k salary, which is £15k more than the UK average and considerably more than benefits.
There are no contracts available.If you're saying PAYE rates are 30-35k then £250 a day is equivalent to a ~£44k salary, which is £15k more than the UK average and considerably more than benefits.
And benefits will likely sadly be where I end up as well, at my age.
Can't even get a job stacking shelves at the moment.
Always makes me laugh when Boris says he wants a ‘high wage economy’ when all they are doing is effectively driving down peoples income, hence tax receipts. That’s not going to work out very well long term, but politicians don’t look long term of course, just in election cycles.
Obviously Covid will be the next vehicle for salary cuts. ‘Take this cut or you are out, you’re lucky to have a job’ etc etc. Once Covid is over the salaries won’t go back up though of course....
Of course some companies are struggling right now, but let’s see what happens long term. 2 years of bad buisness figures because of Covid but the next 20 years of much cheaper labour because of it?
ITP said:
Of course some companies are struggling right now, but let’s see what happens long term. 2 years of bad buisness figures because of Covid but the next 20 years of much cheaper labour because of it?
Indeed, it just depends how long any recovery takes, and that doesn't seem clear at all at the moment.Anecdotally, I'm still seeing a pretty severe collapse in salary levels in my area (Finance/Accounting). I decided to go permanent to ride it out after finding it difficult to get contract or permanent work for a while earlier in the year.
I still get the daily email updates through. I accepted a salary level far lower than I would have looked at last year, but now my new salary is very much at the higher end of what is being offered for similar roles a few months later.
This is obviously skewed by the fact that less people in well paid roles aren't moving, but this is likely to become self-perpetuating when they wee the current salaries on offer!
Edited by kingston12 on Tuesday 1st September 15:51
Some companies seem to be adapting though. I've just had a nibble from an agent representing a client who is offering a 100% remote working contract for the length of contract (ie. not just initially) at what seems a sensible rate (not earth-shattering but also not piss-taking) and who has up front said that if the requirement runs past April of next year then it will be outside of IR35.
Obviously I'll want to see that in writing but we're just at the "sending in the CV" stage right now so early days yet.
Obviously I'll want to see that in writing but we're just at the "sending in the CV" stage right now so early days yet.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Some companies seem to be adapting though. I've just had a nibble from an agent representing a client who is offering a 100% remote working contract for the length of contract (ie. not just initially) at what seems a sensible rate (not earth-shattering but also not piss-taking) and who has up front said that if the requirement runs past April of next year then it will be outside of IR35.
Obviously I'll want to see that in writing but we're just at the "sending in the CV" stage right now so early days yet.
Thats the situation I'm in currently. Just had a six month extension after an initial six months, happy for me to continue to WFH, fair to decent rate, and they've already said its outside ir35 if it should run on past March 21Obviously I'll want to see that in writing but we're just at the "sending in the CV" stage right now so early days yet.
Olivera said:
Deep Thought said:
Clockwork Cupcake said:
...that if the requirement runs past April of next year then it will be outside of IR35.
...they've already said its outside ir35 if it should run on past March 21Deep Thought said:
Because come April 21 they will have to make the determination. The problem previously has been when the contractor has deemed themselves outside ir35 and then the company deems them inside when they are obliged to do so (public sector, this year when it nearly happened)
Exactly. A contract where the client has said up front that they are going to declare it outside IR35 come April is much more attractive to me than one where the client either hasn't decided yet, or is going to deem you inside. For a start, it says the client is clued up on IR35 and is going to work with you to stay outside of it. So even in a pre-April scenario this is beneficial.
I see.
It's semantics, but it would be clearer if the end client just stated that 'they view the role as outside IR35', even if they don't currently assess that status. Stating 'it's outside IR35 if it runs past X date' could give the impression that the status is changing on that date, which would cause some concern.
It's semantics, but it would be clearer if the end client just stated that 'they view the role as outside IR35', even if they don't currently assess that status. Stating 'it's outside IR35 if it runs past X date' could give the impression that the status is changing on that date, which would cause some concern.
Olivera said:
I see.
It's semantics, but it would be clearer if the end client just stated that 'they view the role as outside IR35', even if they don't currently assess that status. Stating 'it's outside IR35 if it runs past X date' could give the impression that the status is changing on that date, which would cause some concern.
I disagree. The way I phrased it is much more clear as it acknowledges that they have no say in the matter until April. Your phrasing implies that they think they do. It's semantics, but it would be clearer if the end client just stated that 'they view the role as outside IR35', even if they don't currently assess that status. Stating 'it's outside IR35 if it runs past X date' could give the impression that the status is changing on that date, which would cause some concern.
Making a statement to the effect that, if the contract goes past April (and thus they will then be liable for determining IR35 status), that they plan to determine it outside, is the clearest and least ambiguous way of stating the situation. For a start, it gives the impression that the client actually has a clue what they are talking about, whilst your wording would give quite the opposite impression.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 1st September 19:08
Olivera said:
I see.
It's semantics, but it would be clearer if the end client just stated that 'they view the role as outside IR35', even if they don't currently assess that status. Stating 'it's outside IR35 if it runs past X date' could give the impression that the status is changing on that date, which would cause some concern.
My 'if it runs past March 21' is my wording not theirs.It's semantics, but it would be clearer if the end client just stated that 'they view the role as outside IR35', even if they don't currently assess that status. Stating 'it's outside IR35 if it runs past X date' could give the impression that the status is changing on that date, which would cause some concern.
April 21 its up to them to decide. If they decide its inside and I've concluded up to then its outside then that creates a problem.
Both being aligned (and agreed by QDos) is a much better position to be in.
Edited by Deep Thought on Wednesday 9th September 14:24
Olivera said:
Good news that at least some end clients are assessing roles as outside :thumbsup:
Current contract is for a niche employer with 2 directors 2 employees and 3 contractors. The MD used to be a contractor.
Definately outside IR35 now and after April 21, but as the company grows, there is the possibility to create a director level role for myself.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Some companies seem to be adapting though. I've just had a nibble from an agent representing a client who is offering a 100% remote working contract for the length of contract (ie. not just initially) at what seems a sensible rate (not earth-shattering but also not piss-taking) and who has up front said that if the requirement runs past April of next year then it will be outside of IR35.
Obviously I'll want to see that in writing but we're just at the "sending in the CV" stage right now so early days yet.
WFH should help significantly with IR35 as you won't have a presence on the clients site. Obviously I'll want to see that in writing but we're just at the "sending in the CV" stage right now so early days yet.
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