Contractors: IR35 & general discussion
Discussion
Anybody else finding it increasingly difficult to sift through the permanent roles that are listed as contract roles? I find this a particular problem on Linkedin but it's not much better on Indeed. Bloody frustrating having to do so much of your own filtering.
On the same subject, where else do people look for roles? I'm in engineering sector and just trying to stremline my searches a bit as most roles a re duplicated everywhere but I don't want to miss anything important.
On the same subject, where else do people look for roles? I'm in engineering sector and just trying to stremline my searches a bit as most roles a re duplicated everywhere but I don't want to miss anything important.
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
What industry are you in?98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
98% of jobs going to people they already know sounds like a very insular one and nowhere near my personal experience (in the world of systems engineering).
I hear you on the jobs not existing thing though. Recruitment consultants neglect to take down ads because they still generate opportunities to speak to candidates (for other positions or just generally).
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
i've noticed a very low response rate when i have proactively applied for something i have seen advertised. Often they decline even an initial interview, weeks or months later, for roles that i am definitely qualified to do. The only decent bites i have is when i am contacted by a recruiter. I've just accepted a perm role today, in fact. The in-house recruiter has been chasing me for 18 months after i originally declined the package. I did get what i asked for in the end.98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
Yep, been pretty much like that in my sector for decades.98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
All you can do is keep in verbal/email contact with those still at places you've worked in the past, and with the agents who've found you work as well.
Sadly, in my sector there is just nothing. I've had sniff of just one vacancy in nearly 6 months, and they've been swamped with hundreds of CV's as a result.
Everywhere else are either making permo staff redundant and/or pushing workload out to offshore companies in India etc., in preparation for next April.
markyb_lcy said:
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
What industry are you in?98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
98% of jobs going to people they already know sounds like a very insular one and nowhere near my personal experience (in the world of systems engineering).
I hear you on the jobs not existing thing though. Recruitment consultants neglect to take down ads because they still generate opportunities to speak to candidates (for other positions or just generally).
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
Amen to that. 98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
I kind of have to play the game a bit at the moment though. Even if jobs are a little fictitious, applying for them is at least a way of alerting relevant recruiters to my availability. Frustrating process though.
I'm also noticing a few FTC roles around at present. Which seem to be somewhere between a contract role and permanent. Not seen many before.
Blown2CV said:
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
i've noticed a very low response rate when i have proactively applied for something i have seen advertised. Often they decline even an initial interview, weeks or months later, for roles that i am definitely qualified to do. The only decent bites i have is when i am contacted by a recruiter. I've just accepted a perm role today, in fact. The in-house recruiter has been chasing me for 18 months after i originally declined the package. I did get what i asked for in the end.98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
The only way I have ever really found roles is after being approached by agencies or working at previous companies.
Bluedot said:
Blown2CV said:
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
i've noticed a very low response rate when i have proactively applied for something i have seen advertised. Often they decline even an initial interview, weeks or months later, for roles that i am definitely qualified to do. The only decent bites i have is when i am contacted by a recruiter. I've just accepted a perm role today, in fact. The in-house recruiter has been chasing me for 18 months after i originally declined the package. I did get what i asked for in the end.98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
The only way I have ever really found roles is after being approached by agencies or working at previous companies.
k, i was beginning to think it was just me! Bluedot said:
Blown2CV said:
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
i've noticed a very low response rate when i have proactively applied for something i have seen advertised. Often they decline even an initial interview, weeks or months later, for roles that i am definitely qualified to do. The only decent bites i have is when i am contacted by a recruiter. I've just accepted a perm role today, in fact. The in-house recruiter has been chasing me for 18 months after i originally declined the package. I did get what i asked for in the end.98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
The only way I have ever really found roles is after being approached by agencies or working at previous companies.
Blown2CV said:
Bluedot said:
Blown2CV said:
ITP said:
I find that most things advertised on the internet job sites don’t actually exist in reality to a speculative CV upload.
98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
i've noticed a very low response rate when i have proactively applied for something i have seen advertised. Often they decline even an initial interview, weeks or months later, for roles that i am definitely qualified to do. The only decent bites i have is when i am contacted by a recruiter. I've just accepted a perm role today, in fact. The in-house recruiter has been chasing me for 18 months after i originally declined the package. I did get what i asked for in the end.98% of the time you only get a job if you already know someone in the company already, who gives the nod to whoever is hiring. Why bother wading through hundreds of CV’s when you can just take the people who are recommended by current staff/contractors?
Jobs have to get advertised anyway though, to tick boxes.
Been like this for years. Its all word of mouth.
The only way I have ever really found roles is after being approached by agencies or working at previous companies.
k, i was beginning to think it was just me! 
I'd say at least 80% of my contracts have been through Jobserve. There is a certain knack to it, no point applying for a job that's been on the board for a week, they will already have had 100's of applicants. You need to apply on the same day the job is advertised, set up job alerts so you get emailed as soon as a job is put on the board and then proactively call and chase. Have you got my CV? Have you got a job spec etc etc.
If the recruiter is not available, call back again in an hour and then again if you have to. Be a pain in the backside basically, anything to speak to the recruiter and get on the radar early so they put you forward in the initial batch as a strong candidate. They will usually only forward 5-10 CV's in the first instance so make sure you are in that first batch and you've just reduced your odds of getting a meeting with the client from several hundreds to one to ten to one. If you don't get that job, you are now on the recruiters database and radar for anything else that might come up.
Job board recruiters are glorified salesman, it's a numbers game for them so just play them at their own game.
Add in the other 20% of jobs through recommendation, word of mouth, friends and industry contacts etc and I've barely been out of work in the many years I've been contracting. Jobserve has been brilliant for me.
Been searching for work since August... lots of window dressing, half the jobs have been filled and they just haven't taken them down off the job boards, or they don't exist... the "project due to start soon, but pushed back due to Coronavirus" is very popular at the moment. Found CV Library quite useful, JobServe is good but you have to pounce on the new roles quick. I usually follow up with a call to the agency.
Found a new role, had interview and am starting next week.
You just have to push through the promises and lies, and ghosting, but work is picking up. I think it will all head south after Furlough ends in October, work starts to dry up just before Christmas anyway, and doesn't get going until March / April.
Found a new role, had interview and am starting next week.
You just have to push through the promises and lies, and ghosting, but work is picking up. I think it will all head south after Furlough ends in October, work starts to dry up just before Christmas anyway, and doesn't get going until March / April.
Most of mine has been through Jobserve, the odd one through linkedin or contacts/previous.
The other boards like cvlibrary, linkedin, glassdoor just don't cut it well for contracts, they are more geared for Perm.
I created a list of agents once.....went through years of emails and created a list then emailed them all a cv/update when I was in between contracts. Linkedin does that now....just tell everyone in your connections you have a new job "looking for a contract" at "contracting"
The other boards like cvlibrary, linkedin, glassdoor just don't cut it well for contracts, they are more geared for Perm.
I created a list of agents once.....went through years of emails and created a list then emailed them all a cv/update when I was in between contracts. Linkedin does that now....just tell everyone in your connections you have a new job "looking for a contract" at "contracting"
Edited by AndrewO on Tuesday 8th September 21:49
Gazzab said:
You don’t want a job title of ‘looking for a job’. Agents still prefer people who are already working and/or search for specific job titles. ‘Looking for a job’ isn’t going to help anyone find you.
I’m not sure this applies well to contracting (though I definitely agree that for perm it rings true).Companies who take on contractors want someone who is available within a week or two at worst (at least in my industry).
You could be a great candidate but if you’re not able to start for a month you’ll likely lose the opportunity perhaps to someone less qualified or experienced because they can start right away.
Also most contractors take a short break between contracts (often instead of unpaid holidays during contracts). So it looks perfectly normal to have your status as “looking” or better still “available”).
Edited by markyb_lcy on Wednesday 9th September 00:39
Blown2CV said:
i've noticed a very low response rate when i have proactively applied for something i have seen advertised. Often they decline even an initial interview, weeks or months later, for roles that i am definitely qualified to do. The only decent bites i have is when i am contacted by a recruiter. I've just accepted a perm role today, in fact. The in-house recruiter has been chasing me for 18 months after i originally declined the package. I did get what i asked for in the end.
Excellent news!! He who waits and all that!!markyb_lcy said:
Gazzab said:
You don’t want a job title of ‘looking for a job’. Agents still prefer people who are already working and/or search for specific job titles. ‘Looking for a job’ isn’t going to help anyone find you.
I’m not sure this applies well to contracting (though I definitely agree that for perm it rings true).Companies who take on contractors want someone who is available within a week or two at worst (at least in my industry).
You could be a great candidate but if you’re not able to start for a month you’ll likely lose the opportunity perhaps to someone less qualified or experienced because they can start right away.
Also most contractors take a short break between contracts (often instead of unpaid holidays during contracts). So it looks perfectly normal to have your status as “looking” or better still “available”).
Edited by markyb_lcy on Wednesday 9th September 00:39
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