Contractors: IR35 & general discussion
Discussion
Raymond Reddington said:
Blown2CV said:
would it be fair to be able to claim furlough in 2020 when in every other year, between contracts, you would just get nothing?
I see your point, but every other year, the economy hasn't been stifled by government imposed restrictions on businesses.. To me it feels pretty clear that, if you are employed by your own Limited Company, then putting yourself on furlough is a given, and completely clear-cut and unamiguous. However, it seems entirely less clear if you are on an Umbrella's books as you are generally only on their books whilst in contract. So I don't really see how you could be furloughed by them if out of contract as you wouldn't be on their books.
Or am I missing something here?
Or am I missing something here?
You can Furlough, that wasn’t the question, just like any other employed person paying PAYE, thanks to Unison highlighting the issue. There’s no onus to prove why your not working, just like any other employed person.
The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
Trax said:
You can Furlough, that wasn’t the question, just like any other employed person paying PAYE, thanks to Unison highlighting the issue. There’s no onus to prove why your not working, just like any other employed person.
The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
i think it's accurate actually. The rules changed quietly when the furlough was extended past end of Oct, i seem to recall being told.The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
Trax said:
You can Furlough, that wasn’t the question, just like any other employed person paying PAYE, thanks to Unison highlighting the issue. There’s no onus to prove why your not working, just like any other employed person.
The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
As you're effectively on a zero-hours contract what earnings would furlough pay be calculated on?The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
Trax said:
You can Furlough, that wasn’t the question, just like any other employed person paying PAYE, thanks to Unison highlighting the issue. There’s no onus to prove why your not working, just like any other employed person.
The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
Have you asked them whether you can reimburse their costs of putting you on furlough? The issue is my Umbrella company seems to think would have to pay the Business NI, and therefore would be out of pocket, so it isn5 viable for them to do so.
Blown2CV said:
it is a dodgy area isn't it as the whole point of IR35 was to consider contractors as employees... and yet clearly not considered as employees when it comes to certain things like the furlough scheme. Is the self-employed route not available either?
Yup.They want to treat us as employees, tax us accordingly but not give us the protection and benefits of being an employee.
Blown2CV said:
it is a dodgy area isn't it as the whole point of IR35 was to consider contractors as employees... and yet clearly not considered as employees when it comes to certain things like the furlough scheme. Is the self-employed route not available either?
We are employees though, either of our own limited companies or umbrellas. There is nothing to stop you from furloughing yourself from your own limited company. The problem of course is people who paid themselves a small salary and large dividends only qualifying for 80% of the salary amount. And of course, post-October, not being able to reclaim the NI element, which seems to be the umbrella's objection.CzechItOut said:
Have you asked them whether you can reimburse their costs of putting you on furlough?
I had a lengthy discussion, but they are adamant that it cannot be done. I wanted to see if anyone else had success before I went back again, as my last ditch would be why can’t I just pay you back the extra costs?Clockwork Cupcake said:
I guess it rather depends on whether or not you are a full time current employee of the Umbrella company.
Can't say that I'm a fan of the things myself; they seem to be neither fish nor fowl.
It confuses me, but as they have claimed and paid Furlough to others before, then the scheme must fit the criteria.Can't say that I'm a fan of the things myself; they seem to be neither fish nor fowl.
Trax said:
I had a lengthy discussion, but they are adamant that it cannot be done. I wanted to see if anyone else had success before I went back again, as my last ditch would be why can’t I just pay you back the extra costs?
This sounds like nonsense, the government website clearly states on eligibility:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/furlough-scheme...
"Employees can be on any type of contract. Employers will be able to agree any working arrangements with employees."
The FCSA website also clearly states that Umbrella employees can be furloughed, although there is some uncertainty over how pay is calculated:
https://www.fcsa.org.uk/job-retention-scheme-will-...
Deep Thought said:
Blown2CV said:
it is a dodgy area isn't it as the whole point of IR35 was to consider contractors as employees... and yet clearly not considered as employees when it comes to certain things like the furlough scheme. Is the self-employed route not available either?
Yup.They want to treat us as employees, tax us accordingly but not give us the protection and benefits of being an employee.
Countdown said:
Trax said:
PushedDover said:
Was his contract finished? or stopped because of Covid?
That’s not a requirement of the scheme.
Carl_Manchester said:
Hey Pit, it’s tough going out there, sorry to see you are struggling. You have lots of company. General rule of thumb is that the uptick starts three years after the start of the downturn because that’s when unemployment peaks and starts to come down, there will be a bounce once the lockdowns expire and the vaccine gets rolled out but don’t expect things to be normal until April 2022.
Contractors are the first to get hit and the first to recover but it’s going to be a bear market for a while.
If it’s that tight, i would consider perm for a bit Once the temporary market bounce comes, there will be one.
Current contract with a tiny company have asked what package I'd need to go permie. They are growing quickly and see me as part of the future. Contractors are the first to get hit and the first to recover but it’s going to be a bear market for a while.
If it’s that tight, i would consider perm for a bit Once the temporary market bounce comes, there will be one.
I've worked out that £70k TURNOVER (NOT profit), is worth £94k of combined salary and pension, to gove me the same number of pennies in my pocket.
I think I should be offering to do the job for £70k plus a lease EV (however range might be an issue as they are 145 miles away from me) and share options.
But wondering if I could suggest
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