Dismissing Someone while Sick

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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xjay1337 said:
...

You can dismiss employee for any reason within 2 years of employment.
...
(
No, you can't. You can't dismiss an employee at any time if the reason for the dismissal is a protected characteristic, or whistleblowing, or trade union activity, and for a few other reasons such as asserting a statutory right.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

118 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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Well, I mean I knew that. I just didn't think to mention.

:-) Good clarification.

Longtime Lurker

188 posts

83 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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CubanPete said:
She will be speaking to ACAS on Monday for some advice.
How did she find ACAS?

When i had an issue with my previous employer (changing my hours of work) and called them for advice they couldn't have been any less interested and i felt as thought making the call was complete waste of time

Driver101

14,376 posts

121 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Longtime Lurker said:
How did she find ACAS?

When i had an issue with my previous employer (changing my hours of work) and called them for advice they couldn't have been any less interested and i felt as thought making the call was complete waste of time
ACAS have been involved with my work during consultation periods before. They were absolutely useless.

They weren't in the slightest prepared even though the company had advised them the nature of the consultation long in advance.

Through the meeting they were corrected numerous times by other members of our staff.

Just about every question was answered with zero conviction. It could be this......It might be that.....never a straight answer.

The reps decided it was a waste of time using them for any further assistance during the consultation.


anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
CubanPete said:
She has a draft letter to send tomorrow, written by an HR Director friend, if they extend their sick further.

If they comes in, who knows, they haven't made for a comfortable working environment for themselves.

A legitimate redundancy could be an option in place of performance monitoring.

Thanks to those that said, I have reinforced the issue isn't with her, it's the employee.
What does "legitimate" redundancy mean? Surely your wife and/or managers within the charity know whether the job is required or not? Is the charity in the habit of employing people they don't need?

The fact is that you're asking about getting rid of someone because of (perceived) unreliability, poor performance and communication. Adding another 'wrong' in the shape of mis-using the redundancy process in order to remove an employee is only likely to make life more complicated.

CubanPete

Original Poster:

3,630 posts

188 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Roman Rhodes said:
What does "legitimate" redundancy mean? Surely your wife and/or managers within the charity know whether the job is required or not? Is the charity in the habit of employing people they don't need?

The fact is that you're asking about getting rid of someone because of (perceived) unreliability, poor performance and communication. Adding another 'wrong' in the shape of mis-using the redundancy process in order to remove an employee is only likely to make life more complicated.
They don't have any money and redundancies are looking like a likely option to make savings (across the business). They are a small department, and have been covering this employees work for the last two months. If they are required to get rid of someone, I doubt it will be one of the remaining members of the team that are actually doing their job.



They have been signed off for a month now with stress. Which is unlikely to have come from work as they haven't been there!


Terminator X

15,090 posts

204 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Roman Rhodes said:
CubanPete said:
She has a draft letter to send tomorrow, written by an HR Director friend, if they extend their sick further.

If they comes in, who knows, they haven't made for a comfortable working environment for themselves.

A legitimate redundancy could be an option in place of performance monitoring.

Thanks to those that said, I have reinforced the issue isn't with her, it's the employee.
What does "legitimate" redundancy mean? Surely your wife and/or managers within the charity know whether the job is required or not? Is the charity in the habit of employing people they don't need?

The fact is that you're asking about getting rid of someone because of (perceived) unreliability, poor performance and communication. Adding another 'wrong' in the shape of mis-using the redundancy process in order to remove an employee is only likely to make life more complicated.
The OP hasn't confirmed length of time employed so far. As many have said if less than 2 years then just dismiss then as long as it isn't discrimination of some kind.

TX.

CubanPete

Original Poster:

3,630 posts

188 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
The OP hasn't confirmed length of time employed so far. As many have said if less than 2 years then just dismiss then as long as it isn't discrimination of some kind.

TX.
CubanPete said:
Employee was a temp for three months, then made permanent, probation passed after a further three months, performance dropped off a cliff a soon as probation was signed off (they were looking to start an improvement plan...) and then sick, total service is just under 8 months. Notes have been for neuralgia, colds and sinusitis.

Terminator X

15,090 posts

204 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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My bad redface

TX.

Pothole

34,367 posts

282 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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dave_s13 said:
Is it possible to simply make the role redundant?
If THE ROLE is actually redundant, yes. Not as an easy way to get rid of a problem employee, however. (You knew that, though, didn't you?)

Hoofy

76,370 posts

282 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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jules_s said:
This type of person will doubtless be doing this repeatedly at various employers and will know all the ropes.
Yep, I have witnessed this BS before.

Just get a lawyer or HR professional to make sure everything is done correctly.

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Statutory rights if available override a contract. A contract does not usually override statutory rights.

If there are no applicable statutory rights in play, then the employee can be dismissed with contractual notice or pay in lieu. There is no need to conduct any elaborate procedure if the employee is not qualified for protection against non automatic unfair dismissal. If there is any possibility that the employee might seek to characterise the claimed illness as a disability, then great care must be taken. Great care does not include seeking advice from car enthusiasts on a car enthusiasm forum.

Terminator X

15,090 posts

204 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Statutory rights if available override a contract. A contract does not usually override statutory rights.

If there are no applicable statutory rights in play, then the employee can be dismissed with contractual notice or pay in lieu. There is no need to conduct any elaborate procedure if the employee is not qualified for protection against non automatic unfair dismissal. If there is any possibility that the employee might seek to characterise the claimed illness as a disability, then great care must be taken. Great care does not include seeking advice from car enthusiasts on a car enthusiasm forum.
On fire today!

TX.

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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Sambucket said:
Breadvan72 said:
Statutory rights if available override a contract. A contract does not usually override statutory rights.
Depends which way? If the contract affords added rights, will overrule the statutory?
A contract may complement and supplement statutory rights. It can not eliminate those rights, in most circumstances.

Marcellus

7,120 posts

219 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Sambucket said:
For instance, if the contract specifies a 3 month notice period this contractual notice period overrules statutory notice period.
But doesn't stop the OP say "sorry not working out your 3 months notice starts today" or "sorry not working out here's your p45, 3 months pay (less tax & NI)"

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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The OP should certainly read the contract, and also stop reading this thread and instead talk to a lawyer or HR adviser.

Algarve

2,102 posts

81 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
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Marcellus said:
But doesn't stop the OP say "sorry not working out your 3 months notice starts today" or "sorry not working out here's your p45, 3 months pay (less tax & NI)"
If he tries that with someone he already feels is scamming him, its highly likely the next play is the 'illness' becomes a 'disability'

zetec

4,468 posts

251 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
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Doctors give out sick notes far too easily, I mean, for a cold as mentioned in the OP, really?

Jockman

17,917 posts

160 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
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Algarve said:
Marcellus said:
But doesn't stop the OP say "sorry not working out your 3 months notice starts today" or "sorry not working out here's your p45, 3 months pay (less tax & NI)"
If he tries that with someone he already feels is scamming him, its highly likely the next play is the 'illness' becomes a 'disability'
Don't live in fear. Decide and move on.

Jockman

17,917 posts

160 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Sambucket said:
Breadvan72 said:
Statutory rights if available override a contract. A contract does not usually override statutory rights.
Depends which way? If the contract affords added rights, will overrule the statutory?
A contract may complement and supplement statutory rights. It can not eliminate those rights, in most circumstances.
I appreciate words are being chosen carefully. especially by BV.

Stat generally trumps contract.