Reclaiming expenses from an outgoing employee
Discussion
xjay1337 said:
I'm no employment lawyer but I would invite him in for a debrief meeting.
In that meeting, say you've found these credit card transactions (Print them out and highlight).
And explain that here is how much is owed and here is how much he is due to be paid.
Then offer him the chance to pay/deduct whatever and you will not mention it moving forwards.
If he refuses then I would explain you would be going through the relevant channels within the legal system to reclaim the money.
That should have been done before he left which I think was last week. In that meeting, say you've found these credit card transactions (Print them out and highlight).
And explain that here is how much is owed and here is how much he is due to be paid.
Then offer him the chance to pay/deduct whatever and you will not mention it moving forwards.
If he refuses then I would explain you would be going through the relevant channels within the legal system to reclaim the money.
bad company said:
That should have been done before he left which I think was last week.
And that's kind of my point. I've also built and run my own company (fair enough, SME with only 20 or so FTE). When you're a small business you have to look after morale and the company. Data theft could cost your company its future.A low four figure sum on a credit card, in a business where (I'm assuming here) management resources are tight and the same management have, I presume, signed off on expenses for over a year, or even worse not even monitored, would be a relatively low priority chase for me.
I'd probably highlight the expenditure to be ex employee and say you intend to deduct those expenses from the final pay check and see what comes back before actually doing it.
The cost to the business in defending a claim, however misguided it is, will soon exceed the recoverable amount. Any benefit from showing others they can't get away with it reduces when rumours of being sued for unlawful deductions take hold.
Life isn't always fair and sometimes the bad guys 'get away with it', though one day their luck typically runs out. The trick is not to be the one who pays out more looking for recompense than you get back in any sense.
Why do people do this?
Word always gets around…. “oh yes that David, I remember him, he’s the guy that was very imaginative with the use of his company credit card…” opportunity… lost….
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Although I’ve known directors really push their luck with them
Word always gets around…. “oh yes that David, I remember him, he’s the guy that was very imaginative with the use of his company credit card…” opportunity… lost….
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Although I’ve known directors really push their luck with them
untakenname said:
Probably best reporting it to the police as fraud first to limit repercussions when you hold the money back.
They'll refer you to action fraud who will do nothing as it's too small an amount.OP: what's the total? Is it worth it, or easier and cheaper to write it off?
I’d be going down the road of calculating the “overpayment “ and pay the nett amount if any with an accompanying letter with a full explanation.
My initial thought is he’ll think he’s got away with it and say nothing on being rumbled.
I certainly wouldn’t take the get the police involved line , keep that as a trump card.
Worth checking if anyone else is up to the same scam , I’d certainly be having a word with whoever was meant to be checking the statements .
As someone has already mentioned it let’s the rest of your staff know it’ll not be tolerated.
bucksmanuk said:
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Not sure why ex boss felt the need to say that in the first place? Would certainly ring alarm bells for me.bucksmanuk said:
Why do people do this?
Word always gets around…. “oh yes that David, I remember him, he’s the guy that was very imaginative with the use of his company credit card…” opportunity… lost….
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Although I’ve known directors really push their luck with them
You'd be surprised how few employers carry out a Basic DBS check. And in any case that would only show something whereWord always gets around…. “oh yes that David, I remember him, he’s the guy that was very imaginative with the use of his company credit card…” opportunity… lost….
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Although I’ve known directors really push their luck with them
- the person was convicted
- the conviction is unspent.
Thales said:
bucksmanuk said:
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Not sure why ex boss felt the need to say that in the first place? Would certainly ring alarm bells for me.I don't think it's fraud. It is money spent on a company credit card without authorisation. There is no attempt at a cover up here. It may be misappropriation of goods or simple theft but the employee that is the most idiotic is the accounts person that didn't pick it up and report it directly to you the first time it was found. Utterly useless!
Johnniem said:
I don't think it's fraud. It is money spent on a company credit card without authorisation. There is no attempt at a cover up here. It may be misappropriation of goods or simple theft but the employee that is the most idiotic is the accounts person that didn't pick it up and report it directly to you the first time it was found. Utterly useless!
Whatever the actual offence is, I'd have been dismissed pronto if I'd even tried it on at any of my erstwhile employers, and rightly so.If it were me I would be more concerned as to how they got away with it and plugging that rather gaping hole, rather than recovering the money itself.. someone else in your organisation is either in on it, or very incompetent.
I would also be surprised if this one employee is the only one who has been doing it, word gets around when it comes to nefarious "perks".
I would also be surprised if this one employee is the only one who has been doing it, word gets around when it comes to nefarious "perks".
Johnniem said:
I don't think it's fraud. It is money spent on a company credit card without authorisation. There is no attempt at a cover up here. It may be misappropriation of goods or simple theft but the employee that is the most idiotic is the accounts person that didn't pick it up and report it directly to you the first time it was found. Utterly useless!
The accounts person is useless... I'm reminded of the scene from Casino...Sam (Ace) Rothstein: Listen, if you didn't know you were being scammed you're too f
kin' dumb to keep this job, if you did know, you were in on it. Either way, YOU'RE OUT! Get out. Go on, let's go.the cueball said:
Johnniem said:
I don't think it's fraud. It is money spent on a company credit card without authorisation. There is no attempt at a cover up here. It may be misappropriation of goods or simple theft but the employee that is the most idiotic is the accounts person that didn't pick it up and report it directly to you the first time it was found. Utterly useless!
The accounts person is useless... I'm reminded of the scene from Casino...Sam (Ace) Rothstein: Listen, if you didn't know you were being scammed you're too f
kin' dumb to keep this job, if you did know, you were in on it. Either way, YOU'RE OUT! Get out. Go on, let's go.Accounts dept is , as you say, useless. No bonus for them this Xmas!
As he's only due approx. 10 days wages and a bit of holiday pay, I suspect the amount owed is far greater than his wage so will be difficult to take it all.
If he agreed to us taking the amount from his wages (i.e. all of it) could we take it? I get the thing about leaving him with minimum wage but is that different if he authorises it?
If not in agreement, thought I would give him 1 month to pay (1 month from date of leaving). Failure to pay in this period, then pursue via moneyclaim online?
Other staff are aware of this situation and are p****d off that he's been getting what are technically 'tax free perks' that they aren't.
As others have posted above, I am just as p****d off with the staff member in accounts who, hasn't the authority to authorise these payments but, has paid them. Slightly in her defence, is the fact that the outgoing employee has lied to her about what some of the transactions were. She has taken this as gospel and paid them. However, there are plenty of items on the credit card statements that should have been flagged up and spurious transactions with no receipts that are clearly not work related. Our policy states that no receipt provided, individual pays the bill. If it wasn't for the incompetence by the accounts person I probably would have had no need to start this thread.
If he agreed to us taking the amount from his wages (i.e. all of it) could we take it? I get the thing about leaving him with minimum wage but is that different if he authorises it?
If not in agreement, thought I would give him 1 month to pay (1 month from date of leaving). Failure to pay in this period, then pursue via moneyclaim online?
Other staff are aware of this situation and are p****d off that he's been getting what are technically 'tax free perks' that they aren't.
As others have posted above, I am just as p****d off with the staff member in accounts who, hasn't the authority to authorise these payments but, has paid them. Slightly in her defence, is the fact that the outgoing employee has lied to her about what some of the transactions were. She has taken this as gospel and paid them. However, there are plenty of items on the credit card statements that should have been flagged up and spurious transactions with no receipts that are clearly not work related. Our policy states that no receipt provided, individual pays the bill. If it wasn't for the incompetence by the accounts person I probably would have had no need to start this thread.
Edited by Fugawi on Wednesday 11th December 19:14
Edited by Fugawi on Wednesday 11th December 19:16
Fugawi said:
As he's only due approx. 10 days wages and a bit of holiday pay, I suspect the amount owed is far greater than his wage so will be difficult to take it all.
If he agreed to us taking the amount from his wages (i.e. all of it) could we take it? I get the thing about leaving him with minimum wage but is that different if he authorises it?
If not in agreement, thought I would give him 1 month to pay (1 month from date of leaving). Failure to pay in this period, then pursue via moneyclaim online?
Other staff are aware of this situation and are p****d off that he's been getting what are technically 'tax free perks' that they aren't.
As others have posted above, I am just as p****d off with the staff member in accounts who, hasn't the authority to authorise these payments but, has paid them. Slightly in her defence, is the fact that the outgoing employee has lied to her about what some of the transactions were. She has taken this as gospel and paid them. However, there are plenty of items on the credit card statements that should have been flagged up and spurious transactions with no receipts that are clearly not work related. Our policy states that no receipt provided, individual pays the bill. If it wasn't for the incompetence by the accounts person I probably would have had no need to start this thread.
“Our policy states that no receipt is provided , the individual pays the bill.”If he agreed to us taking the amount from his wages (i.e. all of it) could we take it? I get the thing about leaving him with minimum wage but is that different if he authorises it?
If not in agreement, thought I would give him 1 month to pay (1 month from date of leaving). Failure to pay in this period, then pursue via moneyclaim online?
Other staff are aware of this situation and are p****d off that he's been getting what are technically 'tax free perks' that they aren't.
As others have posted above, I am just as p****d off with the staff member in accounts who, hasn't the authority to authorise these payments but, has paid them. Slightly in her defence, is the fact that the outgoing employee has lied to her about what some of the transactions were. She has taken this as gospel and paid them. However, there are plenty of items on the credit card statements that should have been flagged up and spurious transactions with no receipts that are clearly not work related. Our policy states that no receipt provided, individual pays the bill. If it wasn't for the incompetence by the accounts person I probably would have had no need to start this thread.
Edited by Fugawi on Wednesday 11th December 19:14
Edited by Fugawi on Wednesday 11th December 19:16
There’s your answer.
Buster73 said:
Fugawi said:
As he's only due approx. 10 days wages and a bit of holiday pay, I suspect the amount owed is far greater than his wage so will be difficult to take it all.
If he agreed to us taking the amount from his wages (i.e. all of it) could we take it? I get the thing about leaving him with minimum wage but is that different if he authorises it?
If not in agreement, thought I would give him 1 month to pay (1 month from date of leaving). Failure to pay in this period, then pursue via moneyclaim online?
Other staff are aware of this situation and are p****d off that he's been getting what are technically 'tax free perks' that they aren't.
As others have posted above, I am just as p****d off with the staff member in accounts who, hasn't the authority to authorise these payments but, has paid them. Slightly in her defence, is the fact that the outgoing employee has lied to her about what some of the transactions were. She has taken this as gospel and paid them. However, there are plenty of items on the credit card statements that should have been flagged up and spurious transactions with no receipts that are clearly not work related. Our policy states that no receipt provided, individual pays the bill. If it wasn't for the incompetence by the accounts person I probably would have had no need to start this thread.
“Our policy states that no receipt is provided , the individual pays the bill.”If he agreed to us taking the amount from his wages (i.e. all of it) could we take it? I get the thing about leaving him with minimum wage but is that different if he authorises it?
If not in agreement, thought I would give him 1 month to pay (1 month from date of leaving). Failure to pay in this period, then pursue via moneyclaim online?
Other staff are aware of this situation and are p****d off that he's been getting what are technically 'tax free perks' that they aren't.
As others have posted above, I am just as p****d off with the staff member in accounts who, hasn't the authority to authorise these payments but, has paid them. Slightly in her defence, is the fact that the outgoing employee has lied to her about what some of the transactions were. She has taken this as gospel and paid them. However, there are plenty of items on the credit card statements that should have been flagged up and spurious transactions with no receipts that are clearly not work related. Our policy states that no receipt provided, individual pays the bill. If it wasn't for the incompetence by the accounts person I probably would have had no need to start this thread.
Edited by Fugawi on Wednesday 11th December 19:14
Edited by Fugawi on Wednesday 11th December 19:16
There’s your answer.
Countdown said:
HTP99 said:
Company credit card and a slack accounts department caused the OP's issue.
Employee caused the issues by taking the P. Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff