SWR strikers - does the Union pay their wages on strike?
Discussion
BigMon said:
Southerner said:
It's simply become the case that a strong union defending good pay and conditions is now largely an alien concept to most of the working population, which is a sad thing really.
You won't get much support for that viewpoint on here I'm afraid.Much like the guards there not asking for approval , they've decided to go on strike and like it or not that's what they've done .
BigMon said:
Southerner said:
It's simply become the case that a strong union defending good pay and conditions is now largely an alien concept to most of the working population, which is a sad thing really.
You won't get much support for that viewpoint on here I'm afraid.
But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
Southerner said:
Not much need for a union when you're a powerfully built director
But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
Agreed, but unions here are stigmatised aren't they after the 70's.But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
BigMon said:
Southerner said:
Not much need for a union when you're a powerfully built director
But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
Agreed, but unions here are stigmatised aren't they after the 70's.But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
BigMon said:
Agreed, but unions here are stigmatised aren't they after the 70's.
I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
I belong to Prospect union and they work very well with our employer. So well in fact that we still have good pay and excellent conditions and have never been on strike. It can be done.I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
Some unions still behave like its the 70’s and haven’t learnt the lessons of the past. As an outsider and someone who rarely uses the trains so has no skin in the game it appears to me that the RMT are far too strike happy. I may well be wrong about that but that’s the perception.
Robertj21a said:
BigMon said:
Southerner said:
Not much need for a union when you're a powerfully built director
But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
Agreed, but unions here are stigmatised aren't they after the 70's.But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
In their defence, the RMT have successfully negotiated resolutions to numerous other DOO disputes over the past couple of years (as I suspect you know very well
), but are currently still at loggerheads with the SWR issue.Southerner said:
Robertj21a said:
BigMon said:
Southerner said:
Not much need for a union when you're a powerfully built director
But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
Agreed, but unions here are stigmatised aren't they after the 70's.But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
In their defence, the RMT have successfully negotiated resolutions to numerous other DOO disputes over the past couple of years (as I suspect you know very well
), but are currently still at loggerheads with the SWR issue.djc206 said:
BigMon said:
Agreed, but unions here are stigmatised aren't they after the 70's.
I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
I belong to Prospect union and they work very well with our employer. So well in fact that we still have good pay and excellent conditions and have never been on strike. It can be done.I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
Some unions still behave like its the 70’s and haven’t learnt the lessons of the past. As an outsider and someone who rarely uses the trains so has no skin in the game it appears to me that the RMT are far too strike happy. I may well be wrong about that but that’s the perception.
That's good to hear! May I ask what area your employer is in?
It's entirely possible to have good working relations on the railways too, and in fact for the main part that's usually the case. The recent upsurge in action by the RMT has been almost entirely due to the government attempting to systematically downgrade jobs across the railway network, in the context of previous advice to eventually get rid of the staff concerned. You can't really take aim at a union for defending their members, that is the entire purpose of their existance. Whilst there may be a view that the RMT are far too quick to take action, there are numerous other trade unions out there who are widely regarded as being utterly useless.
borcy said:
Southerner said:
Robertj21a said:
BigMon said:
Southerner said:
Not much need for a union when you're a powerfully built director
But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
Agreed, but unions here are stigmatised aren't they after the 70's.But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
I understand it works much better in Germany? Don't their unions and companies work together?
In their defence, the RMT have successfully negotiated resolutions to numerous other DOO disputes over the past couple of years (as I suspect you know very well
), but are currently still at loggerheads with the SWR issue.anonymous said:
[redacted]
And yet independent analysis has proven that driver operated doors and no guards is actually safer for passengers.This is not about safety - it's about protecting jobs that should be redundant. In much the same way that the print unions went on strike to protect hot metal printing, inking and rolling when computers were clearly the answer.
Southerner said:
That's good to hear! May I ask what area your employer is in?
It's entirely possible to have good working relations on the railways too, and in fact for the main part that's usually the case. The recent upsurge in action by the RMT has been almost entirely due to the government attempting to systematically downgrade jobs across the railway network, in the context of previous advice to eventually get rid of the staff concerned. You can't really take aim at a union for defending their members, that is the entire purpose of their existance. Whilst there may be a view that the RMT are far too quick to take action, there are numerous other trade unions out there who are widely regarded as being utterly useless.
To some extent yes. We also had a role that had largely become redundant due to technological changes, rather than fight tooth and nail to protect the role the union (PCS rather than Prospect) sought to protect the individuals and they either took VR or were redeployed on the same grade elsewhere depending on personal preference.
Many unions are, it doesn’t help that some unions are tasked with protecting fairly unskilled workers. Protecting the rights of those who can be replaced in a heartbeat is no easy task I’d imagine.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
"I have no idea what these people do, but the sooner they're out of a job the better".Outstanding bit of thinking!
Just because you don't see every facet of a particular job role every day from the customers' perspective, doesn't mean that the job entails nowt. It takes about six months to fully train one, that gives you a clue that it isn't just pressing a button.
Robertj21a said:
It's SWR's time - the RMT has threatened industrial action/strikes at many other franchises too. Some they win and some they lose but it's probably true to say that the RMT tend to usually threaten strike action before they exhaust all other ways forward.
I'm just wondering why this one? I don't remember seeing much about the negotiations with other companies on DOO. Perhaps I've just not noticed but this one does seem more in the news because it's more protracted than the others. I wonder why?
Southerner said:
BigMon said:
Southerner said:
It's simply become the case that a strong union defending good pay and conditions is now largely an alien concept to most of the working population, which is a sad thing really.
You won't get much support for that viewpoint on here I'm afraid.But when you look at the state of the employment market, the sheer volume of people working for peanuts on abysmal terms, I don't really see how you can criticise organisations which exist to prevent that sort of exploitation.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What benefit do you think you’ll see if you remove the guards? Will your fares come down as a consequence? Will there be less PTI incidents? Will people( esp vulnerable passengers) feel more safe travelling knowing there’s less staff on board? Answer an emphatic NO! Also, you’ll see an increase in operational incidents like SPADs on startup signals and trapping passengers as the driver is now focused on two tasks.Fact is, if it goes completely tits up, you’ll be thankful for the guard.
The RMT are a noisy union, no doubt about it. You will always hear them in the news because they represent many different grades and modes of transport. Aslef only deal with drivers and Tssa tend to only deal with station based and supervisory grades so are quieter until it kicks off plus the RMT are always good for an inflammatory quote which is why the press love to quote them! RMT tactics did indeed change after Saint Bob took over and were seen to be ballot happy but management simply ignored unions until they were seen as serious. RMT thought process was to show them they’re serious from the outset and ultimately save time and effort.
It is worth noting that most ballots end up being resolved amicably as it focuses minds in resolving the issues at hand but you’ll see reports in the papers about possible strikes but they rarely materialise. The Evening Standard in London is legendary for this. Headlines saying the Tube is going on strike for this or that and quote outraged commuters but again, they rarely materialise.
valiant said:
What benefit do you think you’ll see if you remove the guards? Will your fares come down as a consequence? Will there be less PTI incidents? Will people( esp vulnerable passengers) feel more safe travelling knowing there’s less staff on board? Answer an emphatic NO! Also, you’ll see an increase in operational incidents like SPADs on startup signals and trapping passengers as the driver is now focused on two tasks.
Fact is, if it goes completely tits up, you’ll be thankful for the guard.
The RMT are a noisy union, no doubt about it. You will always hear them in the news because they represent many different grades and modes of transport. Aslef only deal with drivers and Tssa tend to only deal with station based and supervisory grades so are quieter until it kicks off plus the RMT are always good for an inflammatory quote which is why the press love to quote them! RMT tactics did indeed change after Saint Bob took over and were seen to be ballot happy but management simply ignored unions until they were seen as serious. RMT thought process was to show them they’re serious from the outset and ultimately save time and effort.
It is worth noting that most ballots end up being resolved amicably as it focuses minds in resolving the issues at hand but you’ll see reports in the papers about possible strikes but they rarely materialise. The Evening Standard in London is legendary for this. Headlines saying the Tube is going on strike for this or that and quote outraged commuters but again, they rarely materialise.
You rather miss the point.Fact is, if it goes completely tits up, you’ll be thankful for the guard.
The RMT are a noisy union, no doubt about it. You will always hear them in the news because they represent many different grades and modes of transport. Aslef only deal with drivers and Tssa tend to only deal with station based and supervisory grades so are quieter until it kicks off plus the RMT are always good for an inflammatory quote which is why the press love to quote them! RMT tactics did indeed change after Saint Bob took over and were seen to be ballot happy but management simply ignored unions until they were seen as serious. RMT thought process was to show them they’re serious from the outset and ultimately save time and effort.
It is worth noting that most ballots end up being resolved amicably as it focuses minds in resolving the issues at hand but you’ll see reports in the papers about possible strikes but they rarely materialise. The Evening Standard in London is legendary for this. Headlines saying the Tube is going on strike for this or that and quote outraged commuters but again, they rarely materialise.
Passengers are paying good money to be taken from A to B by train. All they want is a safe, reliable, service and that is what the train operators have to achieve. The passenger doesn't want, or need, to be involved in petty debates over who opens/closes the doors, and certainly doesn't want to feel that a union, usually the RMT, will threaten strike action at every possible opportunity, before all other avenues have been exhausted. Whether such strike action actually comes about is fairly immaterial, it's the fact that a union routinely tries to disrupt passenger's plans that is a key issue.
borcy said:
Robertj21a said:
It's SWR's time - the RMT has threatened industrial action/strikes at many other franchises too. Some they win and some they lose but it's probably true to say that the RMT tend to usually threaten strike action before they exhaust all other ways forward.
I'm just wondering why this one? I don't remember seeing much about the negotiations with other companies on DOO. Perhaps I've just not noticed but this one does seem more in the news because it's more protracted than the others. I wonder why?
Southerner said:
borcy said:
Robertj21a said:
It's SWR's time - the RMT has threatened industrial action/strikes at many other franchises too. Some they win and some they lose but it's probably true to say that the RMT tend to usually threaten strike action before they exhaust all other ways forward.
I'm just wondering why this one? I don't remember seeing much about the negotiations with other companies on DOO. Perhaps I've just not noticed but this one does seem more in the news because it's more protracted than the others. I wonder why?
The sooner that TfL takes on responsibility for these services the better.
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