Job for (soon to be?) ex cop

[nordboy]

LeadFarmer said:

It's all about policing degrees now. Folk are going to see joining as a way of getting their degree, then they'll leave to get a less stressful job with better conditions. Maybe that's what the government and police want, so cops never reach top of their pay scale?

I genuinely don't think the police service cares about having cops with experience, it's going to be just a 'bums on seats' approach. Even now in some forces, the typical average length of service for a response cop is about 3 years!! The public will be the losers, but then I don't think they care either. We live in a world where nobody really cares anymore. And soon enough the day will come when cops just don't care ether.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 30th March 00:13

I think you're right, If the cops don't do full service then reduced pensions costs. Always been just a number, the way the job takes no account of skills and knowledge when promoting or recruiting for internal jobs astounds me on a regular basis. There's also an increasing number of new cops who don't care now!!

There's 5 of us in my office that, in the next 5 yrs will all have 25 yrs service and will be over 50. Every one of us now will be going as with the pension debacle it's just not financially worth staying. Me for example, If I stay for the last 5 yrs, my lump sum will barely cover the amount I put in? So I'll be going at 25 yrs thanks.
I'm sure this is going to be replicated many times in my force and also across the UK.

[LeadFarmer]

nordboy said:

I think you're right, If the cops don't do full service then reduced pensions costs. Always been just a number, the way the job takes no account of skills and knowledge when promoting or recruiting for internal jobs astounds me on a regular basis. There's also an increasing number of new cops who don't care now!!

There's 5 of us in my office that, in the next 5 yrs will all have 25 yrs service and will be over 50. Every one of us now will be going as with the pension debacle it's just not financially worth staying. Me for example, If I stay for the last 5 yrs, my lump sum will barely cover the amount I put in? So I'll be going at 25 yrs thanks.
I'm sure this is going to be replicated many times in my force and also across the UK.

A new police pension calculator has been launched by 'McCloud' which looks very accurate, have your force publicised it? Worth looking at.

I can fully understand new cops not caring, they must be dismayed with the stress of the job combined with the starting pay being so poor. The best time to get out is in the first few years before you've been hooked by the pension cus then it makes it difficult to leave financially.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 30th March 08:49

[nordboy]

LeadFarmer said:

A new police pension calculator has been launched by 'McCloud' which looks very accurate, have your force publicised it? Worth looking at.

I can fully understand new cops not caring, they must be dismayed with the stress of the job combined with the starting pay being so poor. The best time to get out is in the first few years before you've been hooked by the pension cus then it makes it difficult to leave financially.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 30th March 08:49

Yep, seen it, and that's what's made my decision to go in under 4 rather than stay for another 9. Funnily enough my force is not publicising it, think they're scared that loads will up and go!!

[Squadrone Rosso]

Loads of ex-Cops in Home Office Borders & Enforcement.

Retired senior Cops at the top of the office & more junior officers in the ranks.

Lots of recruitment taking place just now.

Edited by Squadrone Rosso on Saturday 2nd April 10:22

[Defcon5]

LeadFarmer said:

But as I mentioned earlier, whilst £130k sounds a lot of money, spread that out over their 30 yrs service and it adds just £4k to their annual salary, which still isn't a brilliant wage for what they do.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 30th March 00:06

That lump sum is in addition to a yearly amount as well though obviously, and it’s guaranteed and inflation linked. How much would you need to save in a DC pension to buy that kind of annuity? That’s the number you need to be adding to the salary.

[LeadFarmer]

Defcon5 said:

That lump sum is in addition to a yearly amount as well though obviously, and it’s guaranteed and inflation linked. How much would you need to save in a DC pension to buy that kind of annuity? That’s the number you need to be adding to the salary.

I know there’s a monthly pension but my point is that folk think the police pension is a golden handshake because of the lump sum and being able to retire early, plus cops get trapped into staying because of it.

But I’m saying it’s not such a great amount as whilst the lump sum sounds a lot, it isn’t when you factor you have to work 30 yrs for it. Spread that lump sum over the 30 years and it still doesn’t add up to a good salary for what they do.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 30th March 16:41

[Rushjob]

Terzo123 said:

From what I've been hearing, a lot of people are going to jump when they hit the magical 50 and 25 year mark.

My brother's just done that, started his new job this morning!

[Terzo123]

Rushjob said:

My brother's just done that, started his new job this morning!

There's talk of between 10 to 15% of my force going in the next 12 months or so because of this. I don't know how accurate those estimates are, but given the number of folk I know pressing the button, it can't be far off.

[LeadFarmer]

Boris's uplift in the number of cops isn't as good as they claim when you consider the suspension of recruiting that occurred for all those years, plus the cops who have retired or left over that period. Now there are probably going to be more cops leaving at the 25yr point than there normally would.

[nordboy]

LeadFarmer said:

Boris's uplift in the number of cops isn't as good as they claim when you consider the suspension of recruiting that occurred for all those years, plus the cops who have retired or left over that period. Now there are probably going to be more cops leaving at the 25yr point than there normally would.

I read that to actually get a true 20k officer uplift, they'd have to recruit 45k a year for the next few years. And there's nowhere near that being recruited at the moment (not even the 20k). Therefore it's just more politician smoke and mirrors

[LeadFarmer]

nordboy said:

I read that to actually get a true 20k officer uplift, they'd have to recruit 45k a year for the next few years. And there's nowhere near that being recruited at the moment (not even the 20k). Therefore it's just more politician smoke and mirrors

True.

I don’t think there will ever be a shortage of applicants but I do think the quality of applicants has dropped, or the selection process isn’t recognising the competent ones. Maybe the folk who would make really good cops just don’t want to do the job, which in todays woke, ar@e covering era I don’t blame them. The majority of offences being dealt with nowadays are about peoples hurt feelings!!!

[fridaypassion]

It would be interesting to know why the cops leaving at 25 years joined in the first place? I thought being in the police was a calling? Seems a bit clinical to leave based on some technicality over pension contributions.

Can't say I blame them its in my view always been a pretty crap job I remember a few people joining when I was younger and I seem to recall the starting salary was 18k which was a fortune for someone around 20 back in the late 90s. I really didn't see the appeal even though that was about double the money I was on. The pensions are still way in excess of anything most civvies could dream of but I know it leaves people with a heck of a lot of deductions. As most police have divorces and two families to pay for its not great. My Mrs is ex police hence the insight

[nordboy]

fridaypassion said:

It would be interesting to know why the cops leaving at 25 years joined in the first place? I thought being in the police was a calling? Seems a bit clinical to leave based on some technicality over pension contributions.

Can't say I blame them its in my view always been a pretty crap job I remember a few people joining when I was younger and I seem to recall the starting salary was 18k which was a fortune for someone around 20 back in the late 90s. I really didn't see the appeal even though that was about double the money I was on. The pensions are still way in excess of anything most civvies could dream of but I know it leaves people with a heck of a lot of deductions. As most police have divorces and two families to pay for its not great. My Mrs is ex police hence the insight

I think it's a bit simplistic to say that all the 25 yr experience cops are leaving due to the pension. Rather, it's just that with the pension changes, it tips people over the edge, there's no longer a financial reason to complete your full service. There's plenty of other reasons why people are leaving (or certainly going to leave) in droves. Jobs been st for a long time and after many many years of genuinely wanting to help people and society (i know it sounds like a cliche) a reality sets in that despite how much you want to, it's all going to st pretty quickly and that st seems to be accelerating. It's soul destroying.
Well that's a very very brief reason, could go on, and on, and on.....

[Chicken Chaser]

OP, drop me a message.

[nordboy]

Back on topic

OP, you could do worse than check out the civil service job website, there's hundreds of jobs on there and even I've found a couple I (a cop) could probably do. I'm not CID background, if you were then there'd be loads more investigation type jobs available.
Maybe worth a few minutes of your time?

https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/in...

[Trendsetter]

nordboy said:

Back on topic

OP, you could do worse than check out the civil service job website, there's hundreds of jobs on there and even I've found a couple I (a cop) could probably do. I'm not CID background, if you were then there'd be loads more investigation type jobs available.
Maybe worth a few minutes of your time?

https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/in...

I worked in the civil service previously and know people who still do so thats a fair idea. I can see a few jobs in there I could most likely do.

I feel that I wouldnt struggle to get a "proper" job with my experience. I think I have a rough exit strategy which I won't go into at the moment. But it has been interesting checking in on this thread every few months to see whether I've changed my mind and I haven't.

So I will update this as I go but things will move slowly for a while I suspect

[Trendsetter]

Chicken Chaser said:

OP, drop me a message.

I've sent you an email, cheers

[fridaypassion]

nordboy said:

I think it's a bit simplistic to say that all the 25 yr experience cops are leaving due to the pension. Rather, it's just that with the pension changes, it tips people over the edge, there's no longer a financial reason to complete your full service. There's plenty of other reasons why people are leaving (or certainly going to leave) in droves. Jobs been st for a long time and after many many years of genuinely wanting to help people and society (i know it sounds like a cliche) a reality sets in that despite how much you want to, it's all going to st pretty quickly and that st seems to be accelerating. It's soul destroying.
Well that's a very very brief reason, could go on, and on, and on.....

I'm certainly not knocking it but its not something other professionals do in big numbers. The Government need to do a lot to make the job more appealing.

One of the basic things that made my Mrs leave was the shifts. Every time a new CC came in they would piss about with the rota system. The best one was 6 on 4 off early/after and nights it was awesome then she was on 1 on 3 off 5 in 5 etc over a 30 day rolling rota it was ridiculous. When our second kid was twins it was a bit of a no brainer for her to leave. We do mourn the loss of the pension but hey ho.

[LeadFarmer]

fridaypassion said:

It would be interesting to know why the cops leaving at 25 years joined in the first place? I thought being in the police was a calling? Seems a bit clinical to leave based on some technicality over pension contributions.

I think lots are just treading water until they’ve done 30 years so they can retire. Years ago it was easier to move to different departments for a change of scenery, but austerity measures meant many forces had to disband these departments. I know my local force disbanded the drugs squads and traffic cops. So if cops are in a role they don’t like, there’s less scope to move on.

Also when cops were approaching retirement they might have previously managed to move to a safer posting, say in the property store or an office based role. Those positions hardly exist now and what remain have been civilianised.

So if a cop with say 20 years service is on the beat (the hardest role) and they don’t like it there, it’s likely they will still be on the beat for the rest of their service. So now that their pension terms have been changed, those with sufficient service under the old pension plan will be looking to escape at 25 years. Folk joining now won’t get that option as the 30 year retirement option has gone. New starter now have to work till 60 to get full pension, or take a smaller pension at age 55 just as anyone can with a private pension.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Saturday 2nd April 17:31

[Rushjob]

LeadFarmer said:

fridaypassion said:

It would be interesting to know why the cops leaving at 25 years joined in the first place? I thought being in the police was a calling? Seems a bit clinical to leave based on some technicality over pension contributions.

I think lots are just treading water until they’ve done 30 years so they can retire. Years ago it was easier to move to different departments for a change of scenery, but austerity measures meant many forces had to disband these departments. I know my local force disbanded the drugs squads and traffic cops. So if cops are in a role they don’t like, there’s less scope to move on.

Also when cops were approaching retirement they might have previously managed to move to a safer posting, say in the property store or an office based role. Those positions hardly exist now and what remain have been civilianised.

So if a cop with say 20 years service is on the beat (the hardest role) and they don’t like it there it’s likely they will still be on the beat for the rest of their service. So now thattheir pension terms have been changed, those with sufficient service under the old pension plan will be looking to escape at 25 years. Folk joining now won’t get that option.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Friday 1st April 22:18

This was exactly the reason for my brother leaving. He was in a specialist role, one he loved and would almost have worked at for free. He had a reasonable work life balance with my SIL also a cop in the same force and their shifts were such that they actually got a few rest days off together so he had time with her and their two young sons. The job decided that they needed some cover on 24 hour response in a sink town the other side of the Force area so moved him with very little notice, saying it's only short term, 3 months max. 9 months later, sorry we still need you here, can't say when you're going back. How about a rota change then so at least my rest days are close to my wife, there are vacancies on that group too.......nope, do as you're told. Puts in a change request under their work life balance system, told to retract it, shut up or leave. OK says he, I'll have a think...... 1 month later having got a decent job working 4 days a week he puts his ticket in. A simple bit of flexibility would have kept a cop with 27 years in, but that would be the sensible way of retaining very experienced and well trained staff.