Women uncomfortable with transgender employee in toilet

[320d is all you need]

WorldBoss said:

No one would choose to be trans. It fking sucks.

Yet plenty do and plenty of people who are trans are increasingly militant and want the world to revolve around them.

If they didn't want to be trans they would seek psychiatric help - not go on Twitter and rant about how oppressed they feel they are, and how they want to invent all of these pronouns

That's my view at least.

[anonymous-user]

WorldBoss said:

Iwantafusca said:

Majority of actual women don’t want me in their spaces in the UK.

No fking st. You don't suffer from gender dysphoria. You aren't transitioning. You are definitively "a man".

You can't get over seeing trans women as men unless they pass your optics test and you're projecting your hateful views onto other people assuming everybody feels the same way as you - Thankfukly they don't.

Go ahead and chunk up some outliers, fringe cases and non passing trans women so we can have a good old "the world's gone mad" victor meldrew moment in thoughts that it supports your toxic thought processes, but please do realise, not everyone on is planet is totally devoid of empathy and compassion.

No one would choose to be trans. It fking sucks.

That should have said men rather than me.

Transwomen are men , the clue is in the name.

The outliers , fringe cases and non passing that you mention are actually the majority of transwomen , that’s the problem. Transsexuals (remember them?) we’re not as much a issue to women , as most women has sympathy for them.

[anonymous-user]

Interesting how the support drops off when gender reassignment surgery has not been performed (which is the vast majority of “transwomen” )

[320d is all you need]

Iwantafusca said:

That should have said men rather than me.

bTranswomen are men , the clue is in the name.

The outliers , fringe cases and non passing that you mention are actually the majority of transwomen , that’s the problem. Transsexuals (remember them?) we’re not as much a issue to women , as most women has sympathy for them.

So you agree that you remain your biological sex even if you trans. As such you then use your biological sex toilets

[anonymous-user]

320d is all you need said:

Yet plenty do and plenty of people who are trans are increasingly militant and want the world to revolve around them.

They don't choose to be trans by having the confidence to come out and maybe getting involved in some activism/groups with similar backgrounds. Some people see it as a way of taking control of a condition that has affected them for most/all of their lives and in the vain hope that maybe they can make the world a little bit less st.

Of course I know you're making links to the vocal minority of potential "bad actors" on social medias and the billion genders memes. As a trans person, it's difficult because some of it is ridiculous even to me, but not all trans people are reasonable for or talk for all other trans people.

We are all individuals with different experiences, view points and lives. Please don't group us all together.

320d is all you need said:

If they didn't want to be trans they would seek psychiatric help - not go on Twitter and rant about how oppressed they feel they are, and how they want to invent all of these pronouns

That's my view at least.

The treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. It is having people try to find some piece of comfort in the brain/body/ mismatch that often makes life feel flat out unbearable to continue living.

I understand that some people might not "get" gender dysphoria as a disorder, but I do take offense at this concept that it's a super sexy fun time for all and we go through embarrassing, expensive, painful procedures and processes after years of angst, confusion and depression just to get our manly rocks off in the ladies loom. It's insulting and feeds back into the years of casual transphobia that was(is?) rife in this country.

[320d is all you need]

I don't think the concept you described is one felt by most, certainly not by me and I hope that was clear enough in my post.

The treatment should not be transition. If I felt like I hated my leg and my leg should actually be a barstool, the correct medical treatment should be psychological assistance and therapy, not cutting off my leg or taking medication to try and change my leg into a bar stool.

These are all ultimately mental conditions and noone treats them as such due to fear of the "mob".


As regards to the very vocal people you speak of, I've never seen a Trans person publicly repute anything they've said. Noone has ever said "we don't all feel like this", none have ever gone on a Talk Show to counter the very militant Trans / activists they seem to get.

I obviously don't mean everyone feels like that (as you correctly surmised so thank you for that) but at the same time I've never seen a moderate trans on TV or "blowing up Twitter". It's always extreme one end of the other. It creates divisions.

I and I suspect 98% of people don't give a fk what you do, or who you are, or who you present as, just keep to yourselves as we keep to ourselves.
It's the constant pressure and almost expectations to accept trans viewpoints as fact and make sometimes some rather large adjustments to accept these, that bothers me.

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 12:41

[anonymous-user]

WorldBoss said:

The treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. It is having people try to find some piece of comfort in the brain/body/ mismatch that often makes life feel flat out unbearable to continue living.

I understand that some people might not "get" gender dysphoria as a disorder, but I do take offense at this concept that it's a super sexy fun time for all and we go through embarrassing, expensive, painful procedures and processes after years of angst, confusion and depression just to get our manly rocks off in the ladies loom. It's insulting and feeds back into the years of casual transphobia that was(is?) rife in this country.

Do you support transwomen in women’s sports also ?

[Pugaris]

320d is all you need said:

The treatment should not be transition. If I felt like I hated my leg and my leg should actually be a barstool, the correct medical treatment should be psychological assistance and therapy, not cutting off my leg or taking medication to try and change my leg into a bar stool.

Interestingly, there's a form of body dysmorphia called BID, (body integrity disorder) that most commonly manifests as believing the left leg from knee down doesn't belong there. The most effective form of treatment (i.e. the one that has the best average health outcomes) is amputation. If the leg isn't amputated, patients often attempt it themselves. It is the only treatment that has any impact in making people feel better.

That obviously doesn't make it the optimal treatment and researching how to make that person feel comfortable with their limb is sensible, but in the absence of better treatment, amputation can easily be argued the right thing to do.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/neurophilosoph...

[BobsPigeon]

WorldBoss said:

The treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. It is having people try to find some piece of comfort in the brain/body/ mismatch that often makes life feel flat out unbearable to continue living.

It's a treatment, but it's success is rather questionable isn't it? And it wouldn't normally be considered in the UK without significant psychological help also, even then I think I'm right in saying suicide risk increases in the few years after transition.

[anonymous-user]

320d is all you need said:

The treatment should not be transition. If I felt like I hated my leg and my leg should actually be a barstool, the correct medical treatment should be psychological assistance and therapy, not cutting off my leg or taking medication to try and change my leg into a bar stool.

Thing is, your brain isn't going to develop in a way that it thinks it should be attached to a barstool dependant on the flux of hormones it is exposed in utero.

If it happens to people's bodies in terms of intersex conditions, is it genuinely a massive jump to assume that it can happen to people's brains as well with trans people? Especially given the long term, unwavering and sometimes debilitating issues that being "trans" entails? Why would somebody willing choose these struggles if it wasn't an innate belief? The answer is, they don't. They just are.

320d is all you need said:

These are all ultimately mental conditions and noone treats them as such due to fear of the "mob".

What mob? I do laugh at this idea that there is some sort of ,"big trans" global entity with masses of power and clout when trans people are one of the most disadvantaged groups when it comes to socioeconomic status and not much ties us together as trans person to another trans person other than a shared condition and simple empathy.

Genuine question - Do you consider homosexually as a part of those "mental conditions", and if not, why not?

320d is all you need said:

As regards to the very vocal people you speak of, I've never seen a Trans person publicly repute anything they've said. Noone has ever said "we don't all feel like this", none have ever gone on a Talk Show to counter the very militant Trans / activists they seem to get.

You're not looking in the "right" places, or the "right" people don't have a loud enough voice, at least to pipe up and say that they want to live something approaching a comfortable life and not cause anybody any unnecessary agro, which is what the vast, VAST majority of trans people wish for.

The issue is at least imo, is that people are quick to make it an all or nothing sort of deal, and by making concessions on certain things is the "thin end of the wedge" to invalidate all trans people everywhere, and it's an awkward world of egg shells to tread on, even as a trans person.

But the concessions need to be made either way to make any real progress, at least imo.

320d is all you need said:

I obviously don't mean everyone feels like that (as you correctly surmised so thank you for that) but at the same time I've never seen a moderate trans on TV or "blowing up Twitter". It's always extreme one end of the other. It creates divisions.

I agree it's a one extreme or the other type deal, but when one extreme seems to be "You are a fetishist/mentally ill man/woman and have no right to exist", the majority are hesitant to put their heads above the parapet and side with such people. The zillion genders thing is a good example of that - I don't believe in all the differing genders concept... But Im adamant that there's more than two

320d is all you need said:

I and I suspect 98% of people don't give a fk what you do, or who you are, or who you present as, just keep to yourselves as we keep to ourselves.

Agreed, but trans people need to be afforded some sort of semblance of an existence. We're talking about them going into the room that makes them genuinely most comfortable to take a pee ad nauseum.

Going back to the extremes thing again, the suggestion I've heard from some is to "keep it behind closed doors"... As if being trans is something that the majority of people with gender dysphoria can take on and off, choose and can be hidden... It can't. People need to make this realisation and have a genuine belief that trans people are real and deserve to exist and that the treatment options while flawed that transition is usually the right treatment for gender dysphoria.

320d is all you need said:

It's the constant pressure and almost expectations to accept trans viewpoints as fact and make sometimes some rather large adjustments to accept these, that bothers me.

I feel the very same way from the anti trans view point people - A lot of pressure to believe their "facts and logic" of despite a fair amount of medical and scientific evidence supporting the contrary, and the adjustments that they want... Like trans people using the right loos for them, or rather, changing the law so that are not allowed to use the right bath room

[anonymous-user]

Iwantafusca said:

Do you support transwomen in women’s sports also ?

Personally? No, I don't.

Hormonal influences, particularly testosterone, are strong and often long lasting. I don't think it's fair to let someone with an history of "doping" be it caused by an unfortunate unwanted puberty or a cis person doing it for performance gain should be allowed to compete with others that haven't.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 14th May 14:34

[ChocolateFrog]

Iwantafusca said:

Interesting how the support drops off when gender reassignment surgery has not been performed (which is the vast majority of “transwomen” )

The question about sport stood out for me.

It really is the fringe minority that think it's ok for trans women to compete in women's sport

[320d is all you need]

WorldBoss said:

320d is all you need said:

These are all ultimately mental conditions and noone treats them as such due to fear of the "mob".

What mob? I do laugh at this idea that there is some sort of ,"big trans" global entity with masses of power and clout when trans people are one of the most disadvantaged groups when it comes to socioeconomic status and not much ties us together as trans person to another trans person other than a shared condition and simple empathy.

Genuine question - Do you consider homosexually as a part of those "mental conditions", and if not, why not?

No, and the reason why is that homosexuality has appeared elsewhere in the animal world. It's very much, in my mind, likened to if you like apples or oranges.

It's taste , if you fundamentally have a disagreement mentally between your brain and your attached body parts that is very different to just liking someone of the opposite sex.

On the point of socioeconomic status and them being disadvantaged, are they disadvantaged because they are trans , or are they disadvantaged because there is a significant minority of trans people who also unfortunately suffer with a variety of mental issues? I mean that without disrespect.
Autism, depression and anxiety, not to mention previous abuse have all been linked in various peer reviewed studies that there seem to be a weighted proportion of transgender people who also suffer with the aforementioned.

WorldBoss said:

320d is all you need said:

As regards to the very vocal people you speak of, I've never seen a Trans person publicly repute anything they've said. Noone has ever said "we don't all feel like this", none have ever gone on a Talk Show to counter the very militant Trans / activists they seem to get.

You're not looking in the "right" places, or the "right" people don't have a loud enough voice, at least to pipe up and say that they want to live something approaching a comfortable life and not cause anybody any unnecessary agro, which is what the vast, VAST majority of trans people wish for.

The issue is at least imo, is that people are quick to make it an all or nothing sort of deal, and by making concessions on certain things is the "thin end of the wedge" to invalidate all trans people everywhere, and it's an awkward world of egg shells to tread on, even as a trans person.

But the concessions need to be made either way to make any real progress, at least imo.

It's very much possible I am not looking in the right places, I don't generally watch the news much, and I don't go on Reddit etc. I just see on occasion a few clips from debates on Facebook in the video section etc.

I'm not of course going to assume all trans people are vocal like the typical "DID JUST ASSUME MY GENDER!!!" type of people or the self-appointed "representers of the trans community"

WorldBoss said:

320d is all you need said:

I obviously don't mean everyone feels like that (as you correctly surmised so thank you for that) but at the same time I've never seen a moderate trans on TV or "blowing up Twitter". It's always extreme one end of the other. It creates divisions.

I agree it's a one extreme or the other type deal, but when one extreme seems to be "You are a fetishist/mentally ill man/woman and have no right to exist", the majority are hesitant to put their heads above the parapet and side with such people. The zillion genders thing is a good example of that - I don't believe in all the differing genders concept... But Im adamant that there's more than two

I don't believe anyone has said (on here, certainly it is not my view point) that people who are trans are fetishist/mentally ill or whatever.
There may be some links with that, but that is for another discussion.

At the end of the day if you appear to be a woman I will call you a she and if you appear to be a man I will call you a he
I will not , and I will never, use stupid nouns like XE XIE XHU SHU CIS or whatever.

WorldBoss said:

320d is all you need said:

I and I suspect 98% of people don't give a fk what you do, or who you are, or who you present as, just keep to yourselves as we keep to ourselves.

Agreed, but trans people need to be afforded some sort of semblance of an existence. We're talking about them going into the room that makes them genuinely most comfortable to take a pee ad nauseum.

Going back to the extremes thing again, the suggestion I've heard from some is to "keep it behind closed doors"... As if being trans is something that the majority of people with gender dysphoria can take on and off, choose and can be hidden... It can't. People need to make this realisation and have a genuine belief that trans people are real and deserve to exist and that the treatment options while flawed that transition is usually the right treatment for gender dysphoria.

Do trans people not have a semblance of existence as it stands?

There are some men who transition, and they look completely like a woman for example . No-one would ever know, so how is that a problem?

As I said, you should go to the room for which suits your chosen appearance, but you have to understand your appearance is not based on how you view yourself but how society views views you.

A trans person should understand if they are a man, who wants to be a woman, but they look like someone has put lipstick on a builder then any woman would feel uncomfortable.

For right or wrong we are a SOCIETY, no man is an island as the saying goes.

And people need to understand if you want to live on the very outskirts of society then you are going to be treated with some contempt.

It happens all the time, from extremist Christians to people who believe the "system" is a lie and live in the woods in a mud hut.


On a personal note, I hate nearly everyone - the amount of times you deal with someone and they are so mind-numbingly dumb or lacking in common sense. If I said how I truly felt at some point I'm pretty sure I would get shot by someone

I could protest and say that actually, it's my right to say when someone is being demonstrably inept at living , or are so monumentally stupid they need to be reminded, but I can't, because of how our society works.

I have to adapt myself to the "pack" somewhat to remain welcome within the pack

I cannot expect the pack to change to suit me

WorldBoss said:

320d is all you need said:

It's the constant pressure and almost expectations to accept trans viewpoints as fact and make sometimes some rather large adjustments to accept these, that bothers me.

I feel the very same way from the anti trans view point people - A lot of pressure to believe their "facts and logic" of despite a fair amount of medical and scientific evidence supporting the contrary, and the adjustments that they want... Like trans people using the right loos for them, or rather, changing the law so that are not allowed to use the right bath room

The argument seems to be that actually a born Male who has outwardly and surgically changed their appearance to a Female is somehow an "actual" man is laughable.

The rest is a matter of semantics and opinions.


As far as I'm aware there is no law which states you have to use a male bathroom , if you were born a man but look like a woman
If you look like a man but claim you are a "female" then don't be surprised if some women get upset or worried at your presence in the toilet (especially if it's busy or a place where women may be more exposed, like swimming pool changing rooms etc) .

Certainly as a bloke I go to the toilet and piss into the Urinal and go out, I don't really pay any attention to who is in there.
Although I have had a bloke in a dress piss next to me once. Did take me by surprise

Also at the risk of being arrested - plenty of times I've gone into a "single room" style Female toilet (you know, where there's a man and a woman and they're both single toilets like a disabled one?) when the mens has been busy

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 15:23

[romeogolf]

320d is all you need said:

The treatment should not be transition. If I felt like I hated my leg and my leg should actually be a barstool, the correct medical treatment should be psychological assistance and therapy, not cutting off my leg or taking medication to try and change my leg into a bar stool.

I used to have a similar view, but when I drilled down on it in my mind, I realised I was looking at it the wrong way. Forgive my over simplification here, but this was my thought process;

The disorder is feeling like you are in the wrong body [over simplified, but in short]
The symptom is depression, anxiety, and a lack of good mood. More often than not, this leads to suicide.
The goal is to prevent death and to have people living happy, productive, and fulfilling lives.

The question then is the treatment and which treatment is effective.

Counselling and therapy have not been proven effective at reducing the symptoms, but supported transitioning has.

So why should that treatment not be considered correct? If our goal is just to make people happy then it's working.

I might not understand it. It might make me feel a bit "icky". But those are problems with me, not with the treatment. So to my mind it doesn't matter what the treatment is, as long as it's working.

[anonymous-user]

romeogolf said:

I used to have a similar view, but when I drilled down on it in my mind, I realised I was looking at it the wrong way. Forgive my over simplification here, but this was my thought process;

The disorder is feeling like you are in the wrong body [over simplified, but in short]
The symptom is depression, anxiety, and a lack of good mood. More often than not, this leads to suicide.
The goal is to prevent death and to have people living happy, productive, and fulfilling lives.

The question then is the treatment and which treatment is effective.

Counselling and therapy have not been proven effective at reducing the symptoms, but supported transitioning has.

So why should that treatment not be considered correct? If our goal is just to make people happy then it's working.

I might not understand it. It might make me feel a bit "icky". But those are problems with me, not with the treatment. So to my mind it doesn't matter what the treatment is, as long as it's working.

What’s your definition of transitioning?

[320d is all you need]

romeogolf said:

I used to have a similar view, but when I drilled down on it in my mind, I realised I was looking at it the wrong way. Forgive my over simplification here, but this was my thought process;

The disorder is feeling like you are in the wrong body [over simplified, but in short]
The symptom is depression, anxiety, and a lack of good mood. More often than not, this leads to suicide.
The goal is to prevent death and to have people living happy, productive, and fulfilling lives.

The question then is the treatment and which treatment is effective.

Counselling and therapy have not been proven effective at reducing the symptoms, but supported transitioning has.

So why should that treatment not be considered correct? If our goal is just to make people happy then it's working.

I might not understand it. It might make me feel a bit "icky". But those are problems with me, not with the treatment. So to my mind it doesn't matter what the treatment is, as long as it's working.

Fair enough, I'm sure there are many opinions, mine is only mine

I'm not against it as such, but it's where do you draw the line?


You are a man, born as one.
You have a weird fixation with DOGS.
You want to be called a Good boy and have your head patted


Do you suggest that we then enable a transition to being medically adapted to be a dog, given a red rocket for a cock and big floppy ears? Because that's what they want and for some people therapy and drugs to correct that behaviour does not help?

I (perhaps wrongly, but it's my opinion) view wanting to be trans and being trans as suffering from a mental illness.

If you're a schizophrenic and you have 6 identities we do not just allow schizo's to have 6 real Identities, as much as possible within the realms of what is fair, legal and safe, we try to prevent these episodes with therapy and drugs.

If you are an alcoholic who is a lovely person when drunk but miserable when sober you do not allow them to keep drinking (if posisble) - again a combination of treatment and therapy is taken.

If you're depressed you are not encouraged to be depressed, you are given drugs and therapy.

As I said I'm all for allowing people to live a meaningful and happy life but at some point you have to stop "enabling" and draw a line.

[anonymous-user]

WorldBoss said:

Personally? No, I don't.

Hormonal influences, particularly testosterone, are strong and often long lasting. I don't think it's fair to let someone with an history of "doping" be it caused by an unfortunate unwanted puberty or a cis person doing it for performance gain should be allowed to compete with others that haven't.

Edited by WorldBoss on Friday 14th May 14:34

Interesting , that would get you cried “truscum” by most transactivists ! To them transwoman are women , no debate.

Of course if you press the male supporters of transwomen whether they would have a sexual relation with one ( being a woman and all ) they go strangely silent..

[320d is all you need]

Worldboss

This is the type of nonsense I mean

Get a fking grip
https://www.ladbible.com/news/latest-train-company...

I hope you can understand this type of mentality from a minority of trans and non binary people is not warming me to the cause.


And part of the enabling - rather than telling the complainer to fk off, they issue an "immediate apology" and saying the "train manager should not have used language like this".

If that was me I'd be saying sorry you feel that way inclined here's a refund for your ticket and please don't use our trains again if you want to be so petty.

I think its ridiculous and fortunately so does the majority of posters with the most liked comments all saying how stupid this is.

I can only imagine the kerfuffle when the found the men and ladies toilet onboard!

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 23:24

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 23:26

[irocfan]

320d is all you need said:

Worldboss

This is the type of nonsense I mean

Get a fking grip
https://www.ladbible.com/news/latest-train-company...

I hope you can understand this type of mentality from a minority of trans and non binary people is not warming me to the cause.


And part of the enabling - rather than telling the complainer to fk off, they issue an "immediate apology" and saying the "train manager should not have used language like this".

If that was me I'd be saying sorry you feel that way inclined here's a refund for your ticket and please don't use our trains again if you want to be so petty.

I think its ridiculous and fortunately so does the majority of posters with the most liked comments all saying how stupid this is.

I can only imagine the kerfuffle when the found the men and ladies toilet onboard!

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 23:24

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 23:26

Alarmed by non-inclusion? FRO, with knobs on. As an aside union officials - they must be an absolute hoot to work with or have working for you. Twunts

[anonymous-user]

320d is all you need said:

Worldboss

This is the type of nonsense I mean

Get a fking grip
https://www.ladbible.com/news/latest-train-company...

I hope you can understand this type of mentality from a minority of trans and non binary people is not warming me to the cause.


And part of the enabling - rather than telling the complainer to fk off, they issue an "immediate apology" and saying the "train manager should not have used language like this".

If that was me I'd be saying sorry you feel that way inclined here's a refund for your ticket and please don't use our trains again if you want to be so petty.

I think its ridiculous and fortunately so does the majority of posters with the most liked comments all saying how stupid this is.

I can only imagine the kerfuffle when the found the men and ladies toilet onboard!

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 23:24

Edited by 320d is all you need on Friday 14th May 23:26

A earlier tweet from the complainant….. Christmasphobic too.

All these people are hypocrites lol