Women uncomfortable with transgender employee in toilet
Discussion
gregs656 said:
lyonspride said:
Well just look at this, 30 pages of mostly hate for the trans community, and most people have no logical reasoning for it, it just makes these claims appear true and gives the political left an even bigger soap box to stand on. They just keep setting us all up to hate each other, because division gives them power.
I’m struggling to map this position on to reality - what power has the political left got in Britain? This forum is full of people who identify as being on the political right - and this topic blows up on this forum every now and again, often because of a story in a right leaning news outlet like the daily mail, because of a report or comment from a sports governing body or because of something in the US where it is mostly the Christian Right wing who are obsessed with the issue. If anything I think it is a failing of the left that they have not been able to generate a more positive narrative or even have a position at all.
It grieves me that I have friends who identify as trans, and they are subject to abuse based on the way the left use them as a political tool. None of them want any of the sh*t that gets thrown about, they don't even care about the toilet issue, they'd rather use the disabled toilets and avoid the hassle entirely.
People seem to think they're making all these crazy demands, but most of that nonsense comes from the political left being offended on behalf of people they don't understand.
lyonspride said:
Nonsense, it's full of people who the far left label as "political right", because by writing people off of being nazis is the easy way to avoid a reasoned debate.
It grieves me that I have friends who identify as trans, and they are subject to abuse based on the way the left use them as a political tool. None of them want any of the sh*t that gets thrown about, they don't even care about the toilet issue, they'd rather use the disabled toilets and avoid the hassle entirely.
People seem to think they're making all these crazy demands, but most of that nonsense comes from the political left being offended on behalf of people they don't understand.
I specifically said ‘identify’ because there have been plenty of polls which indicate the political demographic on this forum, at least of those who post on political topics. It grieves me that I have friends who identify as trans, and they are subject to abuse based on the way the left use them as a political tool. None of them want any of the sh*t that gets thrown about, they don't even care about the toilet issue, they'd rather use the disabled toilets and avoid the hassle entirely.
People seem to think they're making all these crazy demands, but most of that nonsense comes from the political left being offended on behalf of people they don't understand.
I think you are correct that there are activists who are less than helpful in this arena, but while the ‘left’ activists are tweeting train companies the ‘right’ activists are pushing through legislation, and, in many cases, far better at recruiting people to their side of the debate because they just point out the ‘radical left’ activists and close their case.
You and I don’t sound like we are that far apart here honesty.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5723...
Page, 34, previously described his top surgery - where breast tissue is removed - as "life-saving".
Why not say it like it is ? A mastectomy ! Top surgery ffs.
Page, 34, previously described his top surgery - where breast tissue is removed - as "life-saving".
Why not say it like it is ? A mastectomy ! Top surgery ffs.
Iwantafusca said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5723...
Page, 34, previously described his top surgery - where breast tissue is removed - as "life-saving".
Why not say it like it is ? A mastectomy ! Top surgery ffs.
Seems pretty emotional.Page, 34, previously described his top surgery - where breast tissue is removed - as "life-saving".
Why not say it like it is ? A mastectomy ! Top surgery ffs.
Like a woman.
Iwantafusca said:
Yeh why not say “ a double mastectomy “ ?…
Also this type of reporting perpetuates the narrative that people will commit suicide if they don’t get the right sort of treatment.
If I had to guess - top surgery can apply to trans men and women, so is a bit more of a catch all? Also this type of reporting perpetuates the narrative that people will commit suicide if they don’t get the right sort of treatment.
Does it bother you we say ‘hip replacement’ and not ‘total hip arthroplasty’.
gregs656 said:
If I had to guess - top surgery can apply to trans men and women, so is a bit more of a catch all?
Does it bother you we say ‘hip replacement’ and not ‘total hip arthroplasty’.
Actual women say mastectomy, they don’t try to hand wave it away as “top surgery “. Does it bother you we say ‘hip replacement’ and not ‘total hip arthroplasty’.
It’s a minimising way to sugar coat the reality of what’s actually being done.
“ The possible risks of transmasculine top surgery include, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, loss of nipple sensation, loss of the nipple and areola, and anesthesia risks.”
Iwantafusca said:
Actual women say mastectomy, they don’t try to hand wave it away as “top surgery “.
It’s a minimising way to sugar coat the reality of what’s actually being done.
“ The possible risks of transmasculine top surgery include, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, loss of nipple sensation, loss of the nipple and areola, and anesthesia risks.”
I don’t think it is hand waving it away. The paragraph you quote supports my pondering that it was used as a term than can be applied to all trans people. Having quickly looked at the risks of you search mastectomy the risks seem the same as what you quote. It’s a minimising way to sugar coat the reality of what’s actually being done.
“ The possible risks of transmasculine top surgery include, but are not limited to, bleeding, infection, poor healing of incisions, hematoma, loss of nipple sensation, loss of the nipple and areola, and anesthesia risks.”
Just seems very incidental.
Bacon Is Proof said:
Iwantafusca said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5723...
Page, 34, previously described his top surgery - where breast tissue is removed - as "life-saving".
Why not say it like it is ? A mastectomy ! Top surgery ffs.
Seems pretty emotional.Page, 34, previously described his top surgery - where breast tissue is removed - as "life-saving".
Why not say it like it is ? A mastectomy ! Top surgery ffs.
Like a woman.
Well, a man can have a mastectomy too, as men can get breast cancer, and it's used to deal with that, so I expect the term "top surgery" is used either because the surgery encompasses more than just a mastectomy, or because there's some specific technical reason why it doesn't qualify as being one.
gregs656 said:
I don’t think it is hand waving it away. The paragraph you quote supports my pondering that it was used as a term than can be applied to all trans people. Having quickly looked at the risks of you search mastectomy the risks seem the same as what you quote.
Just seems very incidental.
99% of transwoman don’t have any surgery Just seems very incidental.
InitialDave said:
Well, a man can have a mastectomy too, as men can get breast cancer, and it's used to deal with that, so I expect the term "top surgery" is used either because the surgery encompasses more than just a mastectomy, or because there's some specific technical reason why it doesn't qualify as being one.
One slightly alarming Wikipedia search later:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chest_reconst...
"Top surgery" leads to the link above, which describes the procedure as a type of mastectomy.
Wikipedia needs to get with the programme!
InitialDave said:
Well, a man can have a mastectomy too, as men can get breast cancer, and it's used to deal with that, so I expect the term "top surgery" is used either because the surgery encompasses more than just a mastectomy, or because there's some specific technical reason why it doesn't qualify as being one.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/breast-cancer-in-men/treatment/Still mastectomy.
Iwantafusca said:
Yes, I know, I said that.That's why I think the term "top surgery" must be distinct from a mastectomy, as it's clearly not a woman vs man thing.
InitialDave said:
Yes, I know, I said that.
That's why I think the term "top surgery" must be distinct from a mastectomy, as it's clearly not a woman vs man thing.
I don't think it is. It is just a colloquial term, much like 'hip replacement' has a medical name I posted above, that can be applied to trans men and women which gives them some commonality (as they both can have top and bottom surgery).That's why I think the term "top surgery" must be distinct from a mastectomy, as it's clearly not a woman vs man thing.
It seems like a strangely specific thing to get annoyed about because English is full of slang and colloquial terms.
edit: I have never seen anyone get annoyed at the phrase 'boob job' for example...
gregs656 said:
I don't think it is. It is just a colloquial term, much like 'hip replacement' has a medical name I posted above, that can be applied to trans men and women which gives them some commonality (as they both can have top and bottom surgery).
It seems like a strangely specific thing to get annoyed about because English is full of slang and colloquial terms.
edit: I have never seen anyone get annoyed at the phrase 'boob job' for example...
It's not in the least annoying.... so long as saying "mastectomy" is still acceptable. It seems like a strangely specific thing to get annoyed about because English is full of slang and colloquial terms.
edit: I have never seen anyone get annoyed at the phrase 'boob job' for example...
InitialDave said:
Iwantafusca said:
Yes, I know, I said that.That's why I think the term "top surgery" must be distinct from a mastectomy, as it's clearly not a woman vs man thing.
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