Discussion
anxious_ant said:
£80k to be a cabin crew... wow.
That would be a CSD on long haul legacy and include allowances.1. It’s not basic pay of £80k
2. It’s a CSD not a flight attendant
3. That’s a tiny minority of crew
It’s a misnomer to quote in a way.
The person on £80k is long service and in a management role.
The Mad Monk said:
In 2010(?) BA changed various pay and working conditions structures. Much inferior to those previously.
People are still desperate to work there. That would suggest that they were overpaid previously.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/ba-flight-...
The pay, perks and pension are second to none.
People are so desperate to work for BA that up until the point the pandemic hit the company had been running a rolling recruitment campaign for engineering staff at Heathrow for the previous 3 years.By their own accounts they were short of 100 licensed aircraft engineers and despite continued campaigns were unable to fill those positions.That shows just how great the pay,perks and pension are at BA......People are still desperate to work there. That would suggest that they were overpaid previously.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/ba-flight-...
The pay, perks and pension are second to none.
Thankyou4calling said:
That would be a CSD on long haul legacy and include allowances.
1. It’s not basic pay of £80k
2. It’s a CSD not a flight attendant
3. That’s a tiny minority of crew
It’s a misnomer to quote in a way.
The person on £80k is long service and in a management role.
I see, many thanks for clarifying.1. It’s not basic pay of £80k
2. It’s a CSD not a flight attendant
3. That’s a tiny minority of crew
It’s a misnomer to quote in a way.
The person on £80k is long service and in a management role.
I was always under the impression after London tube drivers cabin crews are the other job that pays really well without requiring qualifications.
Cardo said:
People are so desperate to work for BA that up until the point the pandemic hit the company had been running a rolling recruitment campaign for engineering staff at Heathrow for the previous 3 years.By their own accounts they were short of 100 licensed aircraft engineers and despite continued campaigns were unable to fill those positions.That shows just how great the pay,perks and pension are at BA......
Indeed.Many people still call Cabin Crew Stewardesses or trolley dollies.
It’s really archaic as serving food is at the absolute bottom of their job description, of course most people could easily do that.
Most couldn’t be cabin crew.
It’s a very demanding job, it’s tough mentally and physically. Looking at a BA staff member working 10 days a month and staying at a hotel in Dubai eating crisps while saving up there overnight allowance is a bit misleading.
Most are on moderate money and work very very hard.
Yes, they do get to travel and initially that’s exciting but after 2 years you go to Cape Town and don’t even open the curtains in your room as you are exhausted.
Partner is a CSD with Qatar Airways. They are the highest payers but they rarely take experienced people as they won’t toe the line.
It’s really archaic as serving food is at the absolute bottom of their job description, of course most people could easily do that.
Most couldn’t be cabin crew.
It’s a very demanding job, it’s tough mentally and physically. Looking at a BA staff member working 10 days a month and staying at a hotel in Dubai eating crisps while saving up there overnight allowance is a bit misleading.
Most are on moderate money and work very very hard.
Yes, they do get to travel and initially that’s exciting but after 2 years you go to Cape Town and don’t even open the curtains in your room as you are exhausted.
Partner is a CSD with Qatar Airways. They are the highest payers but they rarely take experienced people as they won’t toe the line.
moles said:
I think BA are offering redundancy but I’m more interested in whether a company can rip your terms and conditions to shreds without compensating you for the privilege.
Has the employee literally got no say in the matter?.
ETA Apologies - just re-read your post. Are they actually making people redundant or are they terminating contracts? It's not the same thing and I assumed the latter....
Any employer can and would, if required. If you were Trump you'd probably run your management and company like this in the nuclear way and abrasive run everybody up the wrong way style of ER. It's not always about doing things in the quickest and immediately cheapest way. Most businesses want to have longevity and sustain a profit. Has the employee literally got no say in the matter?.
Countdown said:
moles said:
So do they have to pay you redundancy or not?.
Technically No. It's not redundancy Your job still exists. However a flexible accommodating Employer might pretend that there's been a restructure and you couldn't be redeployed into a new role and offer you redundancy instead..ETA Apologies - just re-read your post. Are they actually making people redundant or are they terminating contracts? It's not the same thing and I assumed the latter....
Edited by Countdown on Sunday 7th June 18:56
Wonder if the management, and all the HR etc. are having their contracts terminated too and being offered new ones on 40-60% less on a take it or walk basis?
I guess not, they will no doubt give themselves a bonus for the genius cost cutting plan.....
It’s not just BA, most industries in the uk now seem to be run the same way. Maybe it’s how management is taught these days. The goal being to just ‘manage’ a minimum wage workforce. Doesn't matter how much experience many of your staff have, they just don’t (and can’t) see any benefit in this when they can employ people on minimum wage to do what they see as the ‘same’ job. Bit of a training course and bingo, job done! Why pay more! Like was said earlier, race to the bottom.
What is needed, but will never happen, is when BA terminates the contracts they should ALL just stick together, refuse to sign the new one and just not go in to work. Let BA have to recruit a whole new workforce of thousands before any planes can leave the ground. That would be interesting.
I guess not, they will no doubt give themselves a bonus for the genius cost cutting plan.....
It’s not just BA, most industries in the uk now seem to be run the same way. Maybe it’s how management is taught these days. The goal being to just ‘manage’ a minimum wage workforce. Doesn't matter how much experience many of your staff have, they just don’t (and can’t) see any benefit in this when they can employ people on minimum wage to do what they see as the ‘same’ job. Bit of a training course and bingo, job done! Why pay more! Like was said earlier, race to the bottom.
What is needed, but will never happen, is when BA terminates the contracts they should ALL just stick together, refuse to sign the new one and just not go in to work. Let BA have to recruit a whole new workforce of thousands before any planes can leave the ground. That would be interesting.
That's the business of employee relations and of finances. It is not black and white. You have to mix short and long term or sometimes sacrifice one for the other. Management will know the risks, the state of the job market, the needs of the balance sheet and take a choice of blend of choices. It's not like there are just two simple answers or choices at either end of the spectrum. It's is because BA is 'big news' is unionised and such a large employer that it is headline news. You often find in market salary surveys that the big name brands are not often the biggest payers. They simply don't need to pay at the top to attract the best or those good enough for their business.
nessiemac said:
anxious_ant said:
£80k to be a cabin crew... wow.
I think you will find that probably less than 1% of crew are anywhere near that figure and even then that is after probably 30 plus years in the company as a CSD, basically a cabin manager with many ground based duties as well.New crew are on about £25k after trips and bonuses
The money's great but no thanks, both awful jobs.
ChocolateFrog said:
I always thought it was a bit mad that the unions would poke the likes of BA and Virgin. I'm sure both pay above the industry average and correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of the perks aren't even in their contracts, 4 star instead of basic accommodation that sort of thing.
You do know that cabin crew are not the only employees of BA? We are talking about ALL 42,000 BA employees that are being affected, not just the cabin crew.
nessiemac said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I always thought it was a bit mad that the unions would poke the likes of BA and Virgin. I'm sure both pay above the industry average and correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of the perks aren't even in their contracts, 4 star instead of basic accommodation that sort of thing.
You do know that cabin crew are not the only employees of BA? We are talking about ALL 42,000 BA employees that are being affected, not just the cabin crew.
I'll be quite surprised if the number doesn't go higher than 12000.
Wouldn't surprise me if some airports go bust full stop.
nessiemac said:
Cardo said:
People are so desperate to work for BA that up until the point the pandemic hit the company had been running a rolling recruitment campaign for engineering staff at Heathrow for the previous 3 years.By their own accounts they were short of 100 licensed aircraft engineers and despite continued campaigns were unable to fill those positions.That shows just how great the pay,perks and pension are at BA......
Indeed.LHRFlightman said:
nessiemac said:
Cardo said:
People are so desperate to work for BA that up until the point the pandemic hit the company had been running a rolling recruitment campaign for engineering staff at Heathrow for the previous 3 years.By their own accounts they were short of 100 licensed aircraft engineers and despite continued campaigns were unable to fill those positions.That shows just how great the pay,perks and pension are at BA......
Indeed.Unless you have family reasons to be near Heathrow the combination of high property prices and a low pound make working for BA a mugs game for qualifyed Engineers (no disrespect meant Nessiemac)
Edited by wisbech on Monday 8th June 08:06
Edited by wisbech on Monday 8th June 08:06
t on the above. No CSD is on £100,000 a year regardless of time in the company and no crew stop overs in New York are 4 days. Normally one night and back the next day. wisbech said:
LHRFlightman said:
nessiemac said:
Cardo said:
People are so desperate to work for BA that up until the point the pandemic hit the company had been running a rolling recruitment campaign for engineering staff at Heathrow for the previous 3 years.By their own accounts they were short of 100 licensed aircraft engineers and despite continued campaigns were unable to fill those positions.That shows just how great the pay,perks and pension are at BA......
Indeed.Unless you have family reasons to be near Heathrow the combination of high property prices and a low pound make working for BA a mugs game for qualifyed Engineers (no disrespect meant Nessiemac)
Edited by wisbech on Monday 8th June 08:06
Edited by wisbech on Monday 8th June 08:06
On a related note - for some roles and in some industries the Employer is perpetually recruiting, because you need a continuous inflow of new starters, in order to fill the vacancies caused by people retiring (as well as natural turnover).
Fastchas said:
Who mentioned the SE? She lives in Staffs. Done 6-8 yrs short haul then moved to long haul meaning she has to commute to Heathrow.
Sounds as though your sister hasn't made the wisest of lifestyle choices.Why live in Staffordshire and work at Heathrow? that doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?
I would have thought that being cabin crew and a mother of a young child doesn't work.- the two things are not compatible.
My remarks were aimed at cabin crew - not engineering posts.
A friend has just retired from BA, he tells me that they do get at least one free flight a year to anywhere that BA flies.
The Mad Monk said:
Fastchas said:
Who mentioned the SE? She lives in Staffs. Done 6-8 yrs short haul then moved to long haul meaning she has to commute to Heathrow.
Sounds as though your sister hasn't made the wisest of lifestyle choices.Why live in Staffordshire and work at Heathrow? that doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?
I would have thought that being cabin crew and a mother of a young child doesn't work.- the two things are not compatible.
My remarks were aimed at cabin crew - not engineering posts.
A friend has just retired from BA, he tells me that they do get at least one free flight a year to anywhere that BA flies.
The basic pay was never that great, but the extras could push it up considerably.
I left in 2007, and I'm sure that pay and conditions have changed considerably since then.
It was a great job, I did almost 40 years.
The Mad Monk said:
A friend has just retired from BA, he tells me that they do get at least one free flight a year to anywhere that BA flies.
It is not a free flight, you still have to pay all the taxes. The 'Annual Concession' is only eligible after a period of service (5 years?) , although company has given extra Annuals as a company bonus to everyone regardless of period of employment.On a side note of the new hired cabin crew, aka Mixed Fleet, 30% of staff leave every year, due to pay and condition, and attracting young staff treat it as a way to see the world and party for a few years rather than a career. They get a base wage, starting at around £15k a year, flight pay (was a bit over £3 an hour), commission for in-flight retail sales, and potentially a bonus, maybe. Unless they still live at home, with a car bought them, that is not much money to live off, without a supporting partner, it is not uncommon for young crew to pack cereal in their case to eat in their hotel room when down route, if they have rent/bills/car lease to cover, and you are in Dubai, Singapore or US Cities where food and drink can be expensive. There is only so many new places they visit, and hours by the pool before boredom of a low paying job sets in.
In most industries, losing 30% staff a year would ring alarm bells.
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