Getting a cscs card

[scottyp123]

Whats the best way of going about this? for years I've avoided site work and to be fair I'm still not interested in doing it, there are far too many rules and regulations to be bothered with and too many little hitlers running around for me. However we have started doing work for an electrician we know but in order to get on the type of sites he works on apparently we need one of these cards. We have always blagged it to get on before and when its to repair something urgent the question "look do you wan't it fixing or not?" usually get the right response.

I know as electricians we should have an ECS card but that seems like far too much trouble to be going to for the reward involved and I'd rather not bother if that's the case but apparently because we are working with him as helpers we just need the labourers one to get on.

So in short what we need is the least amount of hassle to be able to get on the site, whether its a blag or not I'm not really bothered. I've looked at various sites and its all rather confusing really. You need to apply for a green card that costs £35 but to do that you need a health and safety environment cert which costs £21, I take it this is an exam that you have to pass but for £21 you won't get any training I suppose. There are other sites that offer training for £100 or so but they are unclear whether you get the necessary cert at the end of it and may still have to take the test independently.

My next question is is a training course necessary? or are the questions multiple choice type ones where the wrong answers are so idiotically stupid its practically impossible to fail. I class myself as fairly intelligent but this seems far from straight forward to work out but that can't be because some of the people who are actually working on site don't have a collective brain cell between the lot of them sometimes, it would be a miracle if anyone knew what day it was half the time.

• I know I might come across as a bit of an arse about all this H&S bks but I really don't like intrusion into my life, especially not when its state sponsored intrusion, I'm practically 50 years old and I've managed to get this far in life without any disasters.

[scottyp123]

I think I may have answered one of my own questions. From a mock test:-

15. What should you do if you find pigeon droppings and nests in an area where you are required to work? Give one answer
A Carry on with your work carefully, so you don't disturb them
B Stop work and seek advice
C Try to catch the pigeons
D Wait for the pigeons to fly away before carrying on with your work

Try to catch the pigeons, WTF, that's the most stupid possible answer you could possibly have, what pray tell do you do with the pigeons once you have caught them. How can I not be allowed on site when someone who might give this answer is?

[Mr Pointy]

Do you have one of the relevant qualifications listed here:

https://www.ecscard.org.uk/card-types/Electrotechn...
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/getmedia/658dc0f5-3bfa-...

If so all you need is to pass the ECS H&S test:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Health,-Safety-...

Which should be free if you use their reccommended companies:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Venues
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Open-Assessment...

Then just do a bit of reading:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Preparation-and...

This is the guide & the questions you can be asked:
https://ecsprodstorkentico.blob.core.windows.net/e...

Judge for yourself how hard the test is. Frankly if you can't get 100% you shouldn't be allowed out alone.

In summary it's no more difficult to get the right ECS card than the wrong general labourer's CSCS one & you won't risk getting punted off site.

[Robb F]

scottyp123 said:

• I know I might come across as a bit of an arse about all this H&S bks but I really don't like intrusion into my life, especially not when its state sponsored intrusion, I'm practically 50 years old and I've managed to get this far in life without any disasters.

Looks like the CSCS scheme is working exactly as intended then

[scottyp123]

All I've got is the 17th and the 2391 inspection and testing. I've never gone the apprentice route with college and all that, I started to be interested in electrics as a kid and apparently could put a plug on perfectly when I was 5, I re-wired my first house when I was about 22 and thought that was really easy to do so got a job as an electrician with a small firm shortly afterwards and winged it until I was up to speed with all the latest regs.

Within a year the QM had left and the company needed a new one so due to the fact that I was the only one that worked there that had enough intelligence to pass any exams my boss sent me on the 16th and 2391 courses which I passed first time and was then the QM for about 5 years before leaving to go self employed.

I've only bothered passing the 17th as it was a requirement to be in ELECSA and now we are in STROMA they are pushing for the 18th so I suppose I've got to do that next.

[scottyp123]

Robb F said:

scottyp123 said:

• I know I might come across as a bit of an arse about all this H&S bks but I really don't like intrusion into my life, especially not when its state sponsored intrusion, I'm practically 50 years old and I've managed to get this far in life without any disasters.

Looks like the CSCS scheme is working exactly as intended then

I don't follow, I've never had any sort of training on anything about how to not kill or injure myself just used common sense, although plenty of people that do work on sites that have sat training courses and exams have managed to wipe themselves out, youtube is full of darwin candidates on building sites.

[xjay1337]

I had a CSCS card once, for doing a wireless survey at a completed building, it just hadn't been handed over.
No tools on site.
Only a few labourers doing some sign offs etc

Still had to show CSCS card only difference being it hadn't been signed over to client.

stupid right?

i recall it was literally common sense stuff - don't walk under people working at height, don't smoke on site etc

now i think you need to do a H&S course and then CSCS at a proctored pearson view exam center.

nice little earner for them given what 2m people work in construction or trade who might need a cscs card..

[Don Veloci]

Mr Pointy said:

Judge for yourself how hard the test is. Frankly if you can't get 100% you shouldn't be allowed out alone.

In summary it's no more difficult to get the right ECS card than the wrong general labourer's CSCS one & you won't risk getting punted off site.

They do stick in the odd question that might require remembering some basic stuff like fire extinguisher colours or ladder angles.

I don't carry any formal qualifications that seem to fit, just in house training and acquired experience. I've found any project I've worked on are just as happy with the basic yellow "I passed that H&S test and can tie my own shoes" visitor card despite the fact that CSCS says carrying that card does not entitle the holder to work on site.

[megaphone]

Unfortunately all the easy routes to get one have been closed over the years. It really is a cartel, jobs for the boys, all the trade associations are in on it and your best option is to go with the ECS accredited scheme.

My white 'construction related occupation' card ran out in 2017, when I tried to renew, it had been discontinued. Before that I had a green 'site operative' card, which was a basic labourer's card which was easy to get, just the H&S test, they stopped these cards to force everyone into a more advanced card.

I just don't take on any work that requires one, I have walked away from jobs a couple of times when they have insisted on having the cards. I just avoid site work now.

Also be carful, the really want you to have a card that is related to your work, so a green "labourer' card will not allow you to do electrical work. Depends on the site manager to police it.

Edited by megaphone on Friday 10th July 15:17

Edited by megaphone on Friday 10th July 15:19

[anonymous-user]

I wonder if the 'peeps' on the collapsing crane job in London this week had the right bits of paperwork?
Erected 1 day then fell over.
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2020/07/09/co...

Would a piece of paper have stopped it ?

[scottyp123]

Mr Pointy said:

Do you have one of the relevant qualifications listed here:

https://www.ecscard.org.uk/card-types/Electrotechn...
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/getmedia/658dc0f5-3bfa-...

If so all you need is to pass the ECS H&S test:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Health,-Safety-...

Which should be free if you use their reccommended companies:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Venues
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Open-Assessment...

Then just do a bit of reading:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Preparation-and...

This is the guide & the questions you can be asked:
https://ecsprodstorkentico.blob.core.windows.net/e...

Judge for yourself how hard the test is. Frankly if you can't get 100% you shouldn't be allowed out alone.

In summary it's no more difficult to get the right ECS card than the wrong general labourer's CSCS one & you won't risk getting punted off site.

I'm not so sure about that, some of the questions have stupid answers, one was based on electrics, the question was along the lines of how do you make sure the RCD is working correctly, apart from 2 stupid possible answers the other two were press the test button or use a test meter. The correc answer according to the mock exam was use the test button, I'm sorry but that is total bks, the test button only shows that the mechanical trip is working properly, it won't show how fast it trips or at what current, it also won't show if the RCD has been bypassed inside, the in and out connections could both be bodged into one set of terminals, especially if the tool is indeed faulty.

What I have noticed about the questions is out of 4 possible answers, one has nothing at all to do with the question, another is so ridiculous you would have to be stupid to tick it, the third answer is the correct one that you write down to pass the test and the fourth answer is the thing you actually do in reality.

[Alex Z]

Just buy a ten quid book (optional) then take the exam. Three quarters of the answers are “stop what you are doing and tell your supervisor”.
I had to get one to do a network install on a building site and it took less than 4 minutes to do 30 questions.

[fuzzyyo]

Theres a cscs app. Has all the questions and answers on for £5. Go through them all a few times and you're guaranteed to pass.

[Yazza54]

If you're just going to get the basic CSCS it's very easy, even the managers one I have was a piece of piss. You need to do some online training or buy a book, although the questions on the multiple choice exam are mostly very obvious/bordering on stupid. Then just book in to visit a test centre and do the test, they're usually at the kind of places you'd do a driving theory test.

I would make sure you get the right card though, not just the cheapest or easiest to obtain. I don't know what main contractors you've been working for to get by all this time without one but all the proper outfits will flat out refuse you entry into site without one (the right one) from my experience.

Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 11th July 08:28

[Yazza54]

speedyguy said:

I wonder if the 'peeps' on the collapsing crane job in London this week had the right bits of paperwork?
Erected 1 day then fell over.
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2020/07/09/co...

Would a piece of paper have stopped it ?

If that piece of paper proved they had been properly trained to erect said crane, I'd like to think so.. but that's assuming it fell because it was erected incorrectly in the first place

[soad]

I still have my old one (features a photo and visible smart chip) stashed somewhere, probably inside the wallet...wonder when it has expired.

[scottyp123]

Yazza54 said:

If you're just going to get the basic CSCS it's very easy, even the managers one I have was a piece of piss. You need to do some online training or buy a book, although the questions on the multiple choice exam are mostly very obvious/bordering on stupid. Then just book in to visit a test centre and do the test, they're usually at the kind of places you'd do a driving theory test.

I would make sure you get the right card though, not just the cheapest or easiest to obtain. I don't know what main contractors you've been working for to get by all this time without one but all the proper outfits will flat out refuse you entry into site without one (the right one) from my experience.

Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 11th July 08:28

That's great though if you are a roofer, joiner, plumber, plasterer etc. etc. you just pop down to the nearest test centre, do a quick exam and get the card but for electricians and it only seems to be electricians you need to do several years in college, pas multiple exams, work for years with an approved firm, join the JIB and only then can you get the electricians version of the CSCS card which is called an ECS card and then there are different versions of it, gold card, technician etc.

And this is the reason I find it all so strange, the type of electrician who works on site is generally rough as fk, I've seen some right shoddy jobs on new build houses, they don't get paid enough to do a proper job so leave things out like clips or capping so you have cables snaking about behind the walls, badly or wrongly made off sockets and switches. A girl called Emma Shaw was killed just recently by bad electrics in a new build apartment. So it begs the question, if the electrician has spent years getting all those qualifications he must obviously be good at his job so why would he lower himself to do shoddy work like this?

As for the sites we go on, they aren't big site like a tower block going up or a site with 500 houses, I would never work on a site like that. They tend to be refurbs of say an old nursing home or a conversion of a big old house into apartments, sometimes we are the only ones on site, its just that they have changed their policy recently and now require a CSCS card to continue working for them, we did loads of jobs for them a couple of years ago but the interim firm we were working for managed to go bust so we didn't do anything for the main contractor for a year or so.

[Yazza54]

Appreciate what you're saying but it's all about liabilities and insurance, it's a box ticking exercise unfortunately.

[PanicBuyingBogRoll]

Yazza54 said:

speedyguy said:

I wonder if the 'peeps' on the collapsing crane job in London this week had the right bits of paperwork?
Erected 1 day then fell over.
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2020/07/09/co...

Would a piece of paper have stopped it ?

If that piece of paper proved they had been properly trained to erect said crane, I'd like to think so.. but that's assuming it fell because it was erected incorrectly in the first place

Those pieces of paper and box ticking, arse covering are in place to protect everyone else against people with an attitude like the OP and some other on here. You would struggle to get past the car park on any of our sites without the relevant CSCS card.

I ofter find the people that complain the most about doing QA type stuff are the people most likely to cut corners.

I suspect after that crane collapse, there are a lot of people frantically trying to find all the correct bits of paper work to say the crane was designed and erected correctly. By competent people, who all followed the method statements. That is assuming the police haven't stopped them from accessing it already. They they will really be stting themselves.

[Nickbrapp]

CSCS is shortly becoming a labourer only card. So pointless for you, apply for a ECS card. My company have our own training place now where we just sit at the computer and do the online quiz and the card comes in the post

When I originally did it I just went to a local training centre, did a half day course and a exam. It really isn’t hard.

It’s a open book exam and the questions are stupid like, someone’s been electrocuted do you
a - call a ambulance
B - offer them a cigarette
C - shag their wife now they are dead