Employer Work-From-Home / Covid Troubles
Discussion
Venturist said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hmm, interesting. My role is computer based and everything is done over a network, even when on site. It is not customer facing. The only argument against WFH is if it was less productive than in the office. However management has said they are really happy with how well it’s going.
Current employer - no. The value I provide to the business is in my opinion completely unaffected by being at home. Giving me a pay cut especially when they’re seeing cost savings by not running the office, would be a slap in the face.
Future employers - I would definitely have to have a really good think about higher paid office vs lower paid WFH role. The decision would be based on specifics I think.
i'm with the OP on this being coerced back. Yes I have loved every minute of the complete flexibility that WFH gives or gave me..... the savings in lunch spend and commuting not to mention the commute "time"....working in t-shirts and slippers etc . Its worth all its weight in gold. Like the OP we was one of the last out and I think one of first back. our car park still remains virtually empty and we are the only ones back in our huge office block and others in the industry are said to not be required to return until October Nove even December if they wish.
Plenty of attention to detail on health & safety but I think the big cheeses are more than happy to spend a few quid (money not previously available to honour promised bonuses earlier this year but now miraculously available for PPE etc) to buy a few bottles of hand sanitiser and some signage and wipes etc if it covers their backside just so they can force us back when the guidance remains "......if you can". Funny how our CEO started WFH about 6 weeks before us grunts were "instructed " to wfh. Maybe he was more at risk than us mere mortals.
the irony is I had over 100 days WFH with not a single day off sick, felt as fit as a fiddle and often putting in extra time unpaid as it was so easy and convenient and felt in the current time it was the least I could do to help retain business etc.....now 2 days into my usual commute I ran for a train after being stood in a socially distanced queue to get into a shop then as I jumped onto the train as the doors were about to close I pulled a muscle and am now off sick! The company have taken out pretty much any slack they once had in the workload vs employees but this is not a problem of my creation and I am not on a high enough grade to sort that mess out. its their problem.
What makes even more cynical about our return to the office is the staggered arrival times in the morning (this is for our benefit you understand - we are all incapable to entering the office in a responsible socially distanced way around 8.45 in the morning). For me my time to arrive has been set at 8am yet my contractual start time is 9am so thats 5 hours extra a week or 20 hours a month unpaid. there was no intimation that you had to begin working at 8am but I rather suspect there is a veiled expectation that as youre here you might as well do your work from the minute you arrive (and make more money for the company whilst you dont see another dime). So I have been sitting in the rest area reading the Metro or watching TV for an hour. I did ask if there was equally staggering leaving times. the answer was no and that everybody is expected to work until 5pm. they care about our wellbeing at the start of the day but less so at the end of the day. I wonder why. They just dont care is the real truth. we have a great team of people who bring in and retain a lot of business but its never quite enough. we get plenty of verbal pats on the back for our efforts which I think is great but not really what I class as proper reward for going above and beyond. Some may think I am being a bit tardy or obstructive but having sacrificed the best part of 5 months doing long unpaid hours for this company Ive now completely lost all interest in continuing to go the extra mile for a firm that really doesnt give a damn. This BTW is a firm where we lost a colleague in April to Covid. She was a bloody hard worker very good at her job and she got passed over for a pay rise in March then the firm had the gaul to post how sorry they were to lose a valued member of the team in some extranet news letter. Pah.....
One reason given for not extending the WFH arrangement was apparently there had been complaints from some employees of back pain neck pain etc from not having proper work stations at home. HMM I smell a rat because nobody that I have spoken to has actually made any official complaints. Work argues that no proper home working risk assessments have been done. another was that many phone calls were being correctly diverted. yet when i was back in the office the phones were very quiet so where all those calls were coming from is quite the mystery or why theyve suddenly dropped right down to a few each per day. could it be they were just saying this as an excuse to get us back.
one lady has a daughter who is really struggling with her schooling and she asked the boss if it was possible to work say 3 days from home and 2 in the office and she was told "no, i want everyone in the office 5 days a week" - again they dont give a flying fig. yet I fail to see the real benefits short of spying on us. just very weird treatment when the business has survived covid and is now on the up and up again.
I should have been born 30 -40 years earlier when an office job was simpler and one of the healthiest jobs a person could have - office life these days is awful. blood and stone come to mind. I spoke to a colleague the other day and what he said about his work stuck in my mind...."i was killing myself to clear my work before i went on holiday....took one week off......then when I got back started killing myself to clear the backlog and catch up. its not right.
Plenty of attention to detail on health & safety but I think the big cheeses are more than happy to spend a few quid (money not previously available to honour promised bonuses earlier this year but now miraculously available for PPE etc) to buy a few bottles of hand sanitiser and some signage and wipes etc if it covers their backside just so they can force us back when the guidance remains "......if you can". Funny how our CEO started WFH about 6 weeks before us grunts were "instructed " to wfh. Maybe he was more at risk than us mere mortals.
the irony is I had over 100 days WFH with not a single day off sick, felt as fit as a fiddle and often putting in extra time unpaid as it was so easy and convenient and felt in the current time it was the least I could do to help retain business etc.....now 2 days into my usual commute I ran for a train after being stood in a socially distanced queue to get into a shop then as I jumped onto the train as the doors were about to close I pulled a muscle and am now off sick! The company have taken out pretty much any slack they once had in the workload vs employees but this is not a problem of my creation and I am not on a high enough grade to sort that mess out. its their problem.
What makes even more cynical about our return to the office is the staggered arrival times in the morning (this is for our benefit you understand - we are all incapable to entering the office in a responsible socially distanced way around 8.45 in the morning). For me my time to arrive has been set at 8am yet my contractual start time is 9am so thats 5 hours extra a week or 20 hours a month unpaid. there was no intimation that you had to begin working at 8am but I rather suspect there is a veiled expectation that as youre here you might as well do your work from the minute you arrive (and make more money for the company whilst you dont see another dime). So I have been sitting in the rest area reading the Metro or watching TV for an hour. I did ask if there was equally staggering leaving times. the answer was no and that everybody is expected to work until 5pm. they care about our wellbeing at the start of the day but less so at the end of the day. I wonder why. They just dont care is the real truth. we have a great team of people who bring in and retain a lot of business but its never quite enough. we get plenty of verbal pats on the back for our efforts which I think is great but not really what I class as proper reward for going above and beyond. Some may think I am being a bit tardy or obstructive but having sacrificed the best part of 5 months doing long unpaid hours for this company Ive now completely lost all interest in continuing to go the extra mile for a firm that really doesnt give a damn. This BTW is a firm where we lost a colleague in April to Covid. She was a bloody hard worker very good at her job and she got passed over for a pay rise in March then the firm had the gaul to post how sorry they were to lose a valued member of the team in some extranet news letter. Pah.....
One reason given for not extending the WFH arrangement was apparently there had been complaints from some employees of back pain neck pain etc from not having proper work stations at home. HMM I smell a rat because nobody that I have spoken to has actually made any official complaints. Work argues that no proper home working risk assessments have been done. another was that many phone calls were being correctly diverted. yet when i was back in the office the phones were very quiet so where all those calls were coming from is quite the mystery or why theyve suddenly dropped right down to a few each per day. could it be they were just saying this as an excuse to get us back.
one lady has a daughter who is really struggling with her schooling and she asked the boss if it was possible to work say 3 days from home and 2 in the office and she was told "no, i want everyone in the office 5 days a week" - again they dont give a flying fig. yet I fail to see the real benefits short of spying on us. just very weird treatment when the business has survived covid and is now on the up and up again.
I should have been born 30 -40 years earlier when an office job was simpler and one of the healthiest jobs a person could have - office life these days is awful. blood and stone come to mind. I spoke to a colleague the other day and what he said about his work stuck in my mind...."i was killing myself to clear my work before i went on holiday....took one week off......then when I got back started killing myself to clear the backlog and catch up. its not right.
ToothbrushMan said:
For me my time to arrive has been set at 8am yet my contractual start time is 9am so thats 5 hours extra a week or 20 hours a month unpaid. there was no intimation that you had to begin working at 8am but I rather suspect there is a veiled expectation that as youre here you might as well do your work from the minute you arrive (and make more money for the company whilst you dont see another dime). So I have been sitting in the rest area reading the Metro or watching TV for an hour. I did ask if there was equally staggering leaving times. the answer was no and that everybody is expected to work until 5pm. they care about our wellbeing at the start of the day but less so at the end of the day.
Do people actually swallow this tosh? If this is actually true, get together with your colleagues and collectively tell your management that a staggered day means early start, early finish. Stop being treated like a doormat.
I'd be cautious on painting a target on yourself during an already unsteady time for most businesses.
I've been WFH full time since March, but we've all been asked to return this week. While I much prefer WFH and I'm not overly keen on coming back to the office, I'll dutifully do so simply to keep the people who pay me happy.
I suspect/hope that in future, the option to WFH, maybe even just several days a week, will be offered by a lot more businesses, but for now they're just trying to steady themselves and get back to how things used to be.
I've been WFH full time since March, but we've all been asked to return this week. While I much prefer WFH and I'm not overly keen on coming back to the office, I'll dutifully do so simply to keep the people who pay me happy.
I suspect/hope that in future, the option to WFH, maybe even just several days a week, will be offered by a lot more businesses, but for now they're just trying to steady themselves and get back to how things used to be.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Valid point. In some cases it’s even possible to hire 2 remote workers in place of 1 for the same cost. Win-win for employers really. There are however general benefits for WFH or flexi hours, generally around less congestion and pollution.
Perhaps if the government offer some form of incentive this will more likely be adopted by more businesses.
Downside is that this will incur more demand on the network infrastructure. Whilst connectivity has improved in the UK we are still lagging behind other countries. 5G looked promising but not too sure what’s happening now with the Huawei fallout.
Sycamore said:
I'd be cautious on painting a target on yourself during an already unsteady time for most businesses.
I've been WFH full time since March, but we've all been asked to return this week. While I much prefer WFH and I'm not overly keen on coming back to the office, I'll dutifully do so simply to keep the people who pay me happy.
I suspect/hope that in future, the option to WFH, maybe even just several days a week, will be offered by a lot more businesses, but for now they're just trying to steady themselves and get back to how things used to be.
I think that WFH will be one of those recruitment "carrots" that Employers will add to the overall package (along with Salary, pension, PHI, car allowance). They'd be stupid not to, unless it wasn't effective. As has been mentioned it reduces operating costs for the Employer, commuting/parking costs and time for the Employee so (on the face of it), it's a win-win.I've been WFH full time since March, but we've all been asked to return this week. While I much prefer WFH and I'm not overly keen on coming back to the office, I'll dutifully do so simply to keep the people who pay me happy.
I suspect/hope that in future, the option to WFH, maybe even just several days a week, will be offered by a lot more businesses, but for now they're just trying to steady themselves and get back to how things used to be.
The challenging part for managers is going to be to learn to "manage" people remotely.
Countdown said:
The challenging part for managers is going to be to learn to "manage" people remotely.
I've said it before it will expose the good & bad managers. Managing people remotely is not majorly different to doing it in person. If you manage by verifying somebody is sitting at their desk you may have a problem in the new world.GT03ROB said:
Countdown said:
The challenging part for managers is going to be to learn to "manage" people remotely.
I've said it before it will expose the good & bad managers. Managing people remotely is not majorly different to doing it in person. If you manage by verifying somebody is sitting at their desk you may have a problem in the new world.Software support & development in a global business here. My teammates are all over the world, we meet online and never really need to meet in person, but it's always nice to do so.
Our boss has about 30 people under him, he's a bit of a meddler at times, but only because he wants to see the job done well. He's more than happy for us to continue remotely, he knows that if something goes t1ts up out of hours and needs an urgent response then one of us is going to be available online at home doing a flexible day rather than sat in traffic wasting time.
Obvious this is a relationship based on trust. I get paid for a professional day, and always feel I put the required shift in. I'm 48 with 20yrs invested in this particular comfy gig, I'm hardly likely to rock the boat.
Venturist said:
It will be interesting to see how things unfold. Personally WFH life is suiting me well. I’m healthier and happier than ever before - I’m far fitter, well rested, less stressed, eating better, taking better care of myself all round. I have more free time to do the things I love and more money to spend on things I actually care about. I’m equally productive if not more & just as happy as always to work extra hours on occasion to help with deadlines etc.
It doesn’t sit well with me that the government is asking me to give all that up so I can prop up office landlords, cleaners, and Tesco with my lunchtime meal deal purchases.
Rationally I know the economy is a huge complex beast and there will be problems if the office-related service jobs disappear due to widespread WFH but - I’ve had a taste of the work life balance I always wanted and I like it.
Absolutely spot on.It doesn’t sit well with me that the government is asking me to give all that up so I can prop up office landlords, cleaners, and Tesco with my lunchtime meal deal purchases.
Rationally I know the economy is a huge complex beast and there will be problems if the office-related service jobs disappear due to widespread WFH but - I’ve had a taste of the work life balance I always wanted and I like it.
ToothbrushMan said:
...now 2 days into my usual commute I ran for a train after being stood in a socially distanced queue to get into a shop then as I jumped onto the train as the doors were about to close I pulled a muscle and am now off sick! The company have taken out pretty much any slack they once had in the workload vs employees but this is not a problem of my creation and I am not on a high enough grade to sort that mess out. its their problem.
I don't wish to go all 'powerfully built', but is it really necessary to be off sick from an office job with a pulled muscle?I remember your thread(s) detailing the struggle to find a job and, personally, I'd be very careful here, especially with the timing of being told you need to be back in the office and having only managed a couple of days, under duress, before going off sick.
Just my opinion.
PorkInsider said:
ToothbrushMan said:
...now 2 days into my usual commute I ran for a train after being stood in a socially distanced queue to get into a shop then as I jumped onto the train as the doors were about to close I pulled a muscle and am now off sick! The company have taken out pretty much any slack they once had in the workload vs employees but this is not a problem of my creation and I am not on a high enough grade to sort that mess out. its their problem.
I don't wish to go all 'powerfully built', but is it really necessary to be off sick from an office job with a pulled muscle?Looks like WFH on a more permanent basis MAY be a reality in the UK... Capita leading the charge, will more big corporations follow?
Edited by anxious_ant on Sunday 30th August 13:59
Edited by anxious_ant on Sunday 30th August 13:59
anxious_ant said:
Looks like WFH on a more permanent basis MAY be a reality in the UK... Capita leading the charge, will more big corporations follow?
Businesses are there to make money and save money where they can, I have a family member been WFH since March, his firm are giving up there offices and if they need a room they ll rent one.
Sadly for a lot this is now going to be the norm i think.
And this
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538123/F...
Is going to save them either,
If you work in London and have to buy your own season ticket and its £5000, your saving that already and WFH. (if you wanted to go back to work of course)
While there will be a bit more WFH, although it’ll be more common over the next few years, L/T the office has its place. Business need (collaboration/efficiency/training/culture) will be prioritised beyond the honeymoon period. Even if you’re WFH 1-2 days a week the (public transport) commuting costs won’t be much different versus a season ticket.
More pressingly, if the huge wave of job cuts comes down this autumn/winter/spring presenteeism will be a thing - people will be in the office looking busy if their job is on the line.
More pressingly, if the huge wave of job cuts comes down this autumn/winter/spring presenteeism will be a thing - people will be in the office looking busy if their job is on the line.
cossy400 said:
If you work in London and have to buy your own season ticket and its £5000, your saving that already and WFH. (if you wanted to go back to work of course)
We have approximately 250 staff in Central London and because the rental £/sq foot is pretty astronomical the vast majority of them are cooped up like battery hens. We did a survey and roughly 2% of staff wanted the offices opening up asap (mainly because they're working from dining tables). Another 8% were "meh" and the remaining 90% were perfectly fine WFH.
It's not just the cost of travel, it's also the 2 hour commuting time that you save every day.
anxious_ant said:
Looks like WFH on a more permanent basis MAY be a reality in the UK... Capita leading the charge, will more big corporations follow?
Working link:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8677655/C...
they surveyed the staff and the majority wanted to stay at home. In my division (IT) there was no impact to productivity and things carried on.
I’ve been home based for 8 years - the rest of the world just caught up.
eliot said:
Working link:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8677655/C...
they surveyed the staff and the majority wanted to stay at home. In my division (IT) there was no impact to productivity and things carried on.
I’ve been home based for 8 years - the rest of the world just caught up.
Cheers, I've fixed the link in my post https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8677655/C...
they surveyed the staff and the majority wanted to stay at home. In my division (IT) there was no impact to productivity and things carried on.
I’ve been home based for 8 years - the rest of the world just caught up.
I was initially under the impression that WFH (where the role is suitable) will never catch on in the UK. Mainly due to the mentality but also how the city centre and businesses are built for people coming into offices. London is a very good example of this. Lots of restaurants, cafes, shops etc are fully reliant on the custom of office workers.
It will be interesting to see if this will cause a shift in how and where we work..
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