What salary are you happy with these days?

[NickCQ]

djc206 said:

As someone who has worn jeans and a t shirt to work every day for a decade it completely baffles me. Pre covid when I would have cause to visit out corporate offices I’d find whole buildings of people sat there wearing their next/M&S finest except on Friday when they would be wearing their jeans and t shirts like me

If they were dressed just like you, you wouldn't get to sneer at them though

[Kent Border Kenny]

h0b0 said:

I think Jakes friend has misinterpreted what is going on. The new grads do come in later but they also work later and work at times that suit them better than the 9-5 offers. We, as the old foggies, have to modernize our approach and relise we do not need to wear a shirt to the office any more. When I first stepped into IT I was amazed at the legacy methodolgies in place and the expectation for me to be at my desk until 5 even if I had finished what I was working on and it made no sense to start something new due to the artificial boundaries set in place.

I was told to be at my desk at 06:40 without fail in my first job in a bank, no matter what time I’d crawled home from the pub the night before, and was never once late.

I can’t see that I’ll be allowing this year’s intake of grads to wander in at whatever time they feel like just yet.

[jakesmith]

PrinceRupert said:

fastraxx said:

Banking or law?

Law.

Law for me is a bloody serious subject whether it is commercial or criminal it is huge implications if there's a cock up and very technical. I want someone doing that to wear a smart shirt and that's a red line for me. So I can feel they are serious, committed, sharp. It is also a profession steeped in tradition. Sorry but if I'm looking at 25 to life for felony hullabaloo or about to close a $4Bn merger, I don't want some graduate in a pair of shorts advising me looking like he's about to ps off to the beach for a VB stubby as soon as he can.

[djc206]

NickCQ said:

If they were dressed just like you, you wouldn't get to sneer at them though

I’m not sneering I used to do it too (Next was my shop of choice, in fact still is for casual shirts). I just don’t get why they’re forced to dress like that when there’s zero practical reason for it. Why not let your employees feel as comfortable as possible within reason.

[768]

kingston12 said:

djc206 said:

As a side note why do we make people dress up to sit in an office all day? Why can’t we all just wear what we want? it would benefit us all.

Its just because 'that's the way we've always done it', just like physically going into an office five days a week which adds little or no value to a lot of roles, but does add a lot of cost and hassle.

Both are changing fairly quickly now though.

Hope it's not changing too much. I've always taken it as a sign that an organisation isn't responsive to change for the benefit of it's staff.

[h0b0]

Kent Border Kenny said:

h0b0 said:

I think Jakes friend has misinterpreted what is going on. The new grads do come in later but they also work later and work at times that suit them better than the 9-5 offers. We, as the old foggies, have to modernize our approach and relise we do not need to wear a shirt to the office any more. When I first stepped into IT I was amazed at the legacy methodolgies in place and the expectation for me to be at my desk until 5 even if I had finished what I was working on and it made no sense to start something new due to the artificial boundaries set in place.

I was told to be at my desk at 06:40 without fail in my first job in a bank, no matter what time I’d crawled home from the pub the night before, and was never once late.

I can’t see that I’ll be allowing this year’s intake of grads to wander in at whatever time they feel like just yet.

Almost certainly different roles so I will clarify and say my experience is technology. I will also mention that I am US based and we have found other geographies slower to adopt change. And finally, we try to keep PHs anonymous by not over sharing but the bank I was last at is one of the leaders in banking tech. Others in the industry continued out dated approaches and struggled to hire new talent. A lot of this was driven by the tech industry beating finance at its own game. They were offering $100k+ salaries straight out of university before we were. They were also much cooler to the university students looking for their first step. The most significant impact though was when Google bought up half of Manhattan. We previously had an unwritten role that was West coast was tech and East coast banking. Google screwed that up though.

But, if you are talking about IB or AM then I would expect newly hired grads to be at their desk on time in nice clothes. That is a different industry within the industry.

[Kent Border Kenny]

h0b0 said:

Almost certainly different roles so I will clarify and say my experience is technology. I will also mention that I am US based and we have found other geographies slower to adopt change. And finally, we try to keep PHs anonymous by not over sharing but the bank I was last at is one of the leaders in banking tech. Others in the industry continued out dated approaches and struggled to hire new talent. A lot of this was driven by the tech industry beating finance at its own game. They were offering $100k+ salaries straight out of university before we were. They were also much cooler to the university students looking for their first step. The most significant impact though was when Google bought up half of Manhattan. We previously had an unwritten role that was West coast was tech and East coast banking. Google screwed that up though.

But, if you are talking about IB or AM then I would expect newly hired grads to be at their desk on time in nice clothes. That is a different industry within the industry.

The start time is dictated by the markets still, I need everyone to have checked their positions are all correct before clients start calling, so everyone is fine with that.

We don’t have a dress code nowadays, but it’d still be normal to expect everyone to be in suits if we were having an external meeting.

I’m the only one on the trading floor to always wear a suit nowadays.

[fastraxx]

Kent Border Kenny said:

The start time is dictated by the markets still, I need everyone to have checked their positions are all correct before clients start calling, so everyone is fine with that.

We don’t have a dress code nowadays, but it’d still be normal to expect everyone to be in suits if we were having an external meeting.

I’m the only one on the trading floor to always wear a suit nowadays.

I understand previously mobile phones were not allowed out on the trading floor due to confidentiality etc - now everyone has similar set ups at home and their phones next to them - will the banks alter this rule in the office?

[h0b0]

Kent Border Kenny said:

h0b0 said:

Snip

The start time is dictated by the markets still, I need everyone to have checked their positions are all correct before clients start calling, so everyone is fine with that.

We don’t have a dress code nowadays, but it’d still be normal to expect everyone to be in suits if we were having an external meeting.

I’m the only one on the trading floor to always wear a suit nowadays.

Ok, we are agreeing then. Having a fix start time, such as opening of the market, is going to dictate people coming in and getting prepared as well.

Incidentally, my trader friends are mostly going out of their minds working from home because they miss the face to face interaction with their colleagues.

[fastraxx]

h0b0 said:

Ok, we are agreeing then. Having a fix start time, such as opening of the market, is going to dictate people coming in and getting prepared as well.

Incidentally, my trader friends are mostly going out of their minds working from home because they miss the face to face interaction with their colleagues.

The ones I know are enjoying not having the stupid commute but are still expected to go in a couple of days per week.

[Kent Border Kenny]

fastraxx said:

I understand previously mobile phones were not allowed out on the trading floor due to confidentiality etc - now everyone has similar set ups at home and their phones next to them - will the banks alter this rule in the office?

No sign if it so far, but I can see that the day will come.

We used to be able to trade over mobiles, and that’s very much banned still.

[fastraxx]

Kent Border Kenny said:

No sign if it so far, but I can see that the day will come.

We used to be able to trade over mobiles, and that’s very much banned still.

Yeah, probably once the dinosaurs retire and the young team are in charge...

[Kent Border Kenny]

h0b0 said:

Ok, we are agreeing then. Having a fix start time, such as opening of the market, is going to dictate people coming in and getting prepared as well.

Incidentally, my trader friends are mostly going out of their minds working from home because they miss the face to face interaction with their colleagues.

It’s a real problem. The information flow isn’t the same, and you used to be able to get a feel for what was going on from noise levels.

The psychological issue is major too. Many people in trading end up with most of their friends in a similar role, and it’s a very sociable business. Not being able to go out for a couple of beers after work is hard.

[Countdown]

djc206 said:

PrinceRupert said:

Hah, not sure that is true for my office either - our trainees tend to be first in the door, last to leave, and tend to be the best dressed as well!

As a side note why do we make people dress up to sit in an office all day? Why can’t we all just wear what we want? it would benefit us all.

For us it's mainly for client meetings. Staff are expected to look smart and having a formal/informal dress code lets everybody know what is meant by "smart".

I know on PH it's uber-cool to pretend that we'll turn up in khaki shorts/beachwear/flip flops because they "pay me for what I know and not how I look". The reality is that, in most professional organisations. if you don't wear whatever the "corporate uniform" is (a) Your boss will think you look a bit of a dick and (b) Clients will think you look a bit of a dick.

[fastraxx]

Over over under steer said:

I’m 29 and last year salaried income was £100k and stock options vesting added £250k to that (thanks to being in the right firm at the right time). Yet it feels like only yesterday I was 22, a year out of uni and having just bought my first house was struggling like hell to keep the lights on. It was an incredibly rough two years of working hard and not spending a penny on anything non essential.

It made such an impact on me that I really struggle with spending and with the exception of a modest car I save and invest every penny for a rainy day.

So for me I have no idea when I will feel like I have enough, but it certainly isn’t yet. I know I need to relax but I can’t shake the feeling that I’m flying by the seat of my pants and it’s all going to come to an end sometime soon. We all have our own mindsets we battle with and that’s why the answers on this thread vary so wildly. It’s reassuring to see others thoughts and I’ve found this whole thread really helpful to read.

Is that an extra 250k PA? If so, that's incredible, well done. Hope you can enjoy it too.

[Kent Border Kenny]

fastraxx said:

Yeah, probably once the dinosaurs retire and the young team are in charge...

We don’t retire any more though, the business is no longer a young person’s game, so us old blokes can stick around into our forties.

It does make it a bit hard for the young guys, deal men’s shoes come up far less often than they once did.

[PrinceRupert]

Countdown said:

djc206 said:

PrinceRupert said:

Hah, not sure that is true for my office either - our trainees tend to be first in the door, last to leave, and tend to be the best dressed as well!

As a side note why do we make people dress up to sit in an office all day? Why can’t we all just wear what we want? it would benefit us all.

For us it's mainly for client meetings. Staff are expected to look smart and having a formal/informal dress code lets everybody know what is meant by "smart".

I know on PH it's uber-cool to pretend that we'll turn up in khaki shorts/beachwear/flip flops because they "pay me for what I know and not how I look". The reality is that, in most professional organisations. if you don't wear whatever the "corporate uniform" is (a) Your boss will think you look a bit of a dick and (b) Clients will think you look a bit of a dick.

For us as well, we could hardly turn up to a client meeting in jeans. Though I probably meet clients once every three or four months so the dress code may still be unnecessary...I could put a suit on when I know I'm meeting clients.

[jakesmith]

I work in tech and it was a bit casual before, now it’s literally tracksuits. I sometimes dress smart when it’s just me in the house for a change. I sometimes wear ‘going out’ clobber for the school run out of sheer boredom. We do zooms with customers and if they do have their cameras on which is rare... they are also in hoodies etc.

[sutoka]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Know someone that works in finance pre-Covid they had a 'dress for your day' thing which was basically come in casual but if you have a meeting don't dress like a tramp.

Being in the creative industry you just dress like you do the rest of the time but there are some friends that work in IT, they never leave the office and yet they are expected to dress up in full suit, tie to sit in a sealed office. Seems bit daft to dress up for your work colleagues.

[PrinceRupert]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It is an interesting point, one of our clients is a major tech company with a casual dress code, and we would look very odd if we turned up in suit and tie - so normally lose the jacket and tie. For my first meeting, I turned up in suit and tie, boss told me to drop the tie, and my client turned up in a tracksuit ...