Getting no where applying for roles

[blueg33]

So what is the view on the Oxford comma........

[LunarOne]

blueg33 said:

So what is the view on the Oxford comma........

Technically it's wrong but I believe some newspaper style guides allow it. It's so commonly used that it's gone beyond a mistake - unlike using 'sat' instead of 'sitting' which will never, ever be right in my opinion.

[TheAngryDog]

Currently playing the waiting game. Had final interview today, find out early next week. I don't feel very confident.

[brickwall]

LunarOne said:

blueg33 said:

So what is the view on the Oxford comma........

Technically it's wrong but I believe some newspaper style guides allow it. It's so commonly used that it's gone beyond a mistake - unlike using 'sat' instead of 'sitting' which will never, ever be right in my opinion.

The Oxford comma is accepted when used appropriately. This is especially the case when the list of items may include ‘and’, e.g.
“I have worked with law firms including Linklaters, Freshfields, Slaughter and May, and Clifford Chance”

One can see how the Oxford comma in this instance clarifies the list, and without it one could construe that there are law firms called “Slaughter” and “May and Clifford Chance”

[TheAngryDog]

Well, I didn't get the job.

[rustyuk]

Bad luck! Did you get any useful feedback?

[TheAngryDog]

rustyuk said:

Bad luck! Did you get any useful feedback?

Not really. I didn't expect much though tbh, I thought the interviewer was very poor and uninterested, which affected how I interviewed.

[okgo]

TheAngryDog said:

I thought the interviewer was very poor and uninterested, which affected how I interviewed.

What do you mean?

[Cloudy147]

Just one point which may help get you to the interview stage, you mention the jobs you are going for are around managing a helpdesk? I assume that is a team-leader type role for a bunch of people who are answering the phone/tickets for people with IT problems?

If thats the case, your covering letter mentions none of your people skills or team leader experience, which would be a necessary skill for a role like that. You cover your IT skills which is great, but if I have 20 CVs like yours and several of those mention their skills in managing people/teams etc, then they'll be put ahead of yours, and I'd put yours into the "Technical IT guy" pile.

Hope thats helps.

[lyonspride]

Cloudy147 said:

Just one point which may help get you to the interview stage, you mention the jobs you are going for are around managing a helpdesk? I assume that is a team-leader type role for a bunch of people who are answering the phone/tickets for people with IT problems?

If thats the case, your covering letter mentions none of your people skills or team leader experience, which would be a necessary skill for a role like that. You cover your IT skills which is great, but if I have 20 CVs like yours and several of those mention their skills in managing people/teams etc, then they'll be put ahead of yours, and I'd put yours into the "Technical IT guy" pile.

Hope thats helps.

Cover letters are a waste of time if it's an agency job, the ATS doesn't count anything in your cover letter and if the ATS drops you then nobody will ever read the cover letter OR the CV.

On job websites changing your CV to match each role is completely impractical, an hours work for a role that's probably fake and you'd soon get bogged down if you're applying for multiple roles each day.

I've gone for roles where I could only really link to the role requirements in a cover letter, but it became clear that agencies are not reading the cover letter at all.
If there's a role that wants knowledge in X, and my experience of X was not in a work setting, but I can demonstrate exceptional knowledge of X in a cover letter, I won't hear anything back if that's an agency role.

[808 Estate]

lyonspride said:

On job websites changing your CV to match each role is completely impractical, an hours work for a role that's probably fake and you'd soon get bogged down if you're applying for multiple roles each day.

Agreed, I have written about 6 CVs. All slightly different but geared towards specific types of role (project engineer, field engineer, commissioning engineer etc) and upload the one that aligns best to the role I am applying for. Much quicker and easier than rewriting for every job, but does allow flexability in tailoring my application.

[CoupeKid]

TheAngryDog said:

Not really. I didn't expect much though tbh, I thought the interviewer was very poor and uninterested, which affected how I interviewed.

I’m sensing this is your first interview in a while?

Treat it as an experience and atypical so don’t be disheartened.

From what you’ve said the interviewer might have had someone else in mind and is just going through the motions with you to complete their process.

The next interviewer might well be enthusiastic and engaged so pick yourself up, read the advice on here and apply for something else.

[lyonspride]

808 Estate said:

lyonspride said:

On job websites changing your CV to match each role is completely impractical, an hours work for a role that's probably fake and you'd soon get bogged down if you're applying for multiple roles each day.

Agreed, I have written about 6 CVs. All slightly different but geared towards specific types of role (project engineer, field engineer, commissioning engineer etc) and upload the one that aligns best to the role I am applying for. Much quicker and easier than rewriting for every job, but does allow flexability in tailoring my application.

Yeah, i've got multiple CV versions, but the problem I find is certain job sites don't send your CV, they rip your CV apart and put it into their own format, which you then have to go through and correct the formatting, move paragraphs, enter missing information, etc. With these you can't just upload a different CV, because you'd have to go through that process over and over again, so I have a main CV with everything in it.

Trouble is i've gone for interviews where the interviewer has a chip on their shoulder and starts saying stuff like "management experience, I don't see how this is relevant" and "not sure how this applies to this role", these are people who've been in the same job for 20 years and have NO idea what it's like looking for work now.

My own father 10 years ago, thought you could just walk into businesses and ask if they had any jobs, because that's how it it worked in the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's when he was working.

I also leave out stuff like last company exit date and any short term roles i've done, because agencies don't like job gaps and don't like people who don't stay in a company for long enough for them to get their commission. I found that interviewers don't take kindly to this when you offer up the truth, they don't understand that you have to do these things to get past the agencies, because they've never been on that side of the fence.

I hate having to lie, even if it is by omission.

Edited by lyonspride on Wednesday 23 June 12:39

[okgo]

Why do they need to know what it is like? They're the ones hiring, you're the one wanting the job. I also don't quite see how asking questions such as those listed means they have a chip on their shoulder?

What sort of roles are you applying to to have to edit dates and such to 'get past' an agency? A CV with a load of holes in it, or someone who's had a million jobs isn't attractive to anyone, agencies or employers, of course they are pissed off when they find they're wasting time with someone who they wouldn't have seen if the truth was on the CV. Again, they don't need to be on that side of the fence, they are the ones with a job to offer.

Think of it from the other side of the fence, you might find it isn't them that has the chip on their shoulder?

[lyonspride]

okgo said:

Why do they need to know what it is like? They're the ones hiring, you're the one wanting the job. I also don't quite see how asking questions such as those listed means they have a chip on their shoulder?

What sort of roles are you applying to to have to edit dates and such to 'get past' an agency? A CV with a load of holes in it, or someone who's had a million jobs isn't attractive to anyone, agencies or employers, of course they are pissed off when they find they're wasting time with someone who they wouldn't have seen if the truth was on the CV. Again, they don't need to be on that side of the fence, they are the ones with a job to offer.

I have explained all this..............

If they have an attitude problem with you for not tailoring your CV to that role, they should at least understand WHY you were unable to do that, which is all explained in my above posts.

They're basically giving you grief because they do not understand the hoops you have to jump through in order to actually get your CV in front of a hiring manager.

[okgo]

With all of that in mind, why don't you apply direct to companies, stops the computer thing saying no, and gets your tailored CV to the right person?

I've never had a recruiter change my CV without my permission. And sure enough when I've got into the room the copy of my CV that they have is the one that I have written...

[lyonspride]

okgo said:

With all of that in mind, why don't you apply direct to companies, stops the computer thing saying no, and gets your tailored CV to the right person?

I've never had a recruiter change my CV without my permission. And sure enough when I've got into the room the copy of my CV that they have is the one that I have written...

I'm an electronics engineer, companies don't advertise themselves for the general public to find, many don't make it very obvious what they do and some are literally just sales offices for stuff they have designed/made in China, unless I get VERY lucky and see an ad from a company or manage to figure out who the company is from the agency ad, then i'm stuck with agencies and that means I have to play their game whether I like it or not.

Hell I even Google search parts of the job description to see if Google can find the company website, this can actually be helpful in identifying fake job ads, if the same job desc comes up all over the country with one or two agencies.

Sometimes i've been able to find the company and I can send a tailored CV and cover letter to them by email, i've had emails or phone calls asking me where i've seen a job ad, if it was an agency, and which agency. Which suggests it was a past job opening, but the agency is using the old ad to scoop up CVs.

[TheAngryDog]

Back to applying next week.

I will be using some of the tactics mentioned, just not sure about calling the recruiter and asking about the role as they are likely to tell me it is all written down in the advert.

[Pothole]

lyonspride said:

echazfraz said:

Dear Pistonheads Poster,

I regret to inform you that your post has been assessed by the Automated Review System (English), or ARSE, and has been found to be complete...arse.

Yours sincerely,

Normal people

Well done, dismiss other peoples experiences just because you haven't had the misfortune to be there yourself............ One day.

you said:

HR depts in those companies are full of graduates who failed to get a job in their chosen field, and many graduates genuinely believe that anyone who didn't go to uni is basically stupid.

Is this based on experience or is it an opinion you've formed based on not very much?

[GT03ROB]

TheAngryDog said:

Back to applying next week.

I will be using some of the tactics mentioned, just not sure about calling the recruiter and asking about the role as they are likely to tell me it is all written down in the advert.

.... or alternatively they could tell you that gem of information, that enable you to prepare perfectly for the interview & land the job you wanted.....whilst non of the other applicant could be bothered to call the recruiter so didn't get the gem. You have nothing to lose bar a few mins of your time & everything to gain.

I'm sure it's hard if you've been looking for a while to keep that positive outlook, but it's what will get you the next role.