jacking in an IT career...
Discussion
Im in this boat. 20 years now and had enough of IT, the only people motivated in my org/department are either overpaid contractors or middle management.
And now days I just don't think anyone in management in organisations really gives a sht about people now days when it comes to skilled/professional roles, they don't let a guard down and tell you wants really going on either as its so PC all the time.
Maybe thats just the case in my org.
And now days I just don't think anyone in management in organisations really gives a sht about people now days when it comes to skilled/professional roles, they don't let a guard down and tell you wants really going on either as its so PC all the time.
Maybe thats just the case in my org.
bmwmike said:
Cliffe60 said:
My wife is in IT, constantly moan s about it and wants “ to do something else”.
Turns out “something else” pays about half her current salary.
Solution. 3 day week, still pays more than something else and you get 2 days absolutely free to do what you want.1 day is taken care of by paying less tax once you drop out of higher rate, so in effect it’s only one day less.
I know not everyone can afford to do this, but it works for us.
This is my plan too. At a particular earnings point it makes no sense earning more, its better to have a shorter working week. Working for a corp, you retain the big company benefits too.Turns out “something else” pays about half her current salary.
Solution. 3 day week, still pays more than something else and you get 2 days absolutely free to do what you want.1 day is taken care of by paying less tax once you drop out of higher rate, so in effect it’s only one day less.
I know not everyone can afford to do this, but it works for us.
Feel the same at 32, although not in IT.
Started at 18, Uni night school for BA, Uni Night school for MSc, chartered institute, etc.
Just bored by it all, dropped down to 4 days a week, wanted to buy a place down the coast (Welsh) but prices have gone mad, if I could drop a a Monday too (maybe perm wfh) I might buy somewhere else out of the way, growing veg, fishing, walk the dogs, enjoy my life instead of grinding away as a faceless number in some massive MultiNational.
Started at 18, Uni night school for BA, Uni Night school for MSc, chartered institute, etc.
Just bored by it all, dropped down to 4 days a week, wanted to buy a place down the coast (Welsh) but prices have gone mad, if I could drop a a Monday too (maybe perm wfh) I might buy somewhere else out of the way, growing veg, fishing, walk the dogs, enjoy my life instead of grinding away as a faceless number in some massive MultiNational.
Joey Deacon said:
Another issue is that when I first started I used to love messing with computers in my own time. I would love spending my weekends building PCs and installing software or building a home network and server. I was happy to spend hours messing around with Autoexec.bat and Config.sys just to release enough memory to get Grand Prix to run. There was no internet, so everything was self taught or learnt from others.
Now I have no interest in this whatsoever, I just want stuff to work. In the past I would relish the challenge of fixing things, now it is just an inconvenience.
I think that is half the problem, the interest and enthusiasm I used to have for computers has now completely vanished.
very similar to how i feel.Now I have no interest in this whatsoever, I just want stuff to work. In the past I would relish the challenge of fixing things, now it is just an inconvenience.
I think that is half the problem, the interest and enthusiasm I used to have for computers has now completely vanished.
Think we all need a group hug in this thread, although whilst I am not tired of the industry, I am more worried about how i can sustain being in the IT industry for another 20 years or so, what with tech changes and an ever increasing workforce who are ready and willing to step into your technical shoes.
Rather like a lot of people in this thread, I had a deep interest in computers, I knew I wanted a job in IT and here I am. But of course that deep interest meant very hands on work, which I did a lot of, thousands and thousands of hours worth in the earlier days. But you get to the point and realise there's a ceiling to your earning potential as an engineer / coder and you need to branch out into operations or management to earn more.
What has baffled / exasperated me the most in recent times is the contracting and legal process for software. The back and forth between vendor and buyer is crazy, with customers often just trying to write things completely their own way. That might work in some legal areas, but in the software industry it basically means the customer is trying to fundamentally change the software capability through legal wording.
Or to put it another way in PH speak: as you are about to sign the lease agreement for your base spec A180 at the Mercedes dealership, you change the specs of the car on the invoice to say that the car will now be capable of 200mph and that you will never need to pay for tyres out of your own pocket.
Rather like a lot of people in this thread, I had a deep interest in computers, I knew I wanted a job in IT and here I am. But of course that deep interest meant very hands on work, which I did a lot of, thousands and thousands of hours worth in the earlier days. But you get to the point and realise there's a ceiling to your earning potential as an engineer / coder and you need to branch out into operations or management to earn more.
What has baffled / exasperated me the most in recent times is the contracting and legal process for software. The back and forth between vendor and buyer is crazy, with customers often just trying to write things completely their own way. That might work in some legal areas, but in the software industry it basically means the customer is trying to fundamentally change the software capability through legal wording.
Or to put it another way in PH speak: as you are about to sign the lease agreement for your base spec A180 at the Mercedes dealership, you change the specs of the car on the invoice to say that the car will now be capable of 200mph and that you will never need to pay for tyres out of your own pocket.
devnull said:
Or to put it another way in PH speak: as you are about to sign the lease agreement for your base spec A180 at the Mercedes dealership, you change the specs of the car on the invoice to say that the car will now be capable of 200mph and that you will never need to pay for tyres out of your own pocket.
And the pre-sales chaps insert asterisks into the footnotes indicating that as the vehicle use is intended, 200mph is not achievable on a UK public road, but there's a vertical test track at Beachy Head where the desired speeds may be achieved, and while tyres are now considered a zero cost replacement for the life of this contract, oddly round rubber circle devices that are definitely not tyres may be seen piling up in the newly agreed warehouse space opposite, and that while those circle devices may be exchanged for tyres, supply of the circle things is not guaranteed, especially if the branch of Black Circles you just funded gets a run on those spec tyres, no sorry, circles.devnull said:
Think we all need a group hug in this thread, although whilst I am not tired of the industry, I am more worried about how i can sustain being in the IT industry for another 20 years or so, what with tech changes and an ever increasing workforce who are ready and willing to step into your technical shoes.
Rather like a lot of people in this thread, I had a deep interest in computers, I knew I wanted a job in IT and here I am. But of course that deep interest meant very hands on work, which I did a lot of, thousands and thousands of hours worth in the earlier days. But you get to the point and realise there's a ceiling to your earning potential as an engineer / coder and you need to branch out into operations or management to earn more.
What has baffled / exasperated me the most in recent times is the contracting and legal process for software. The back and forth between vendor and buyer is crazy, with customers often just trying to write things completely their own way. That might work in some legal areas, but in the software industry it basically means the customer is trying to fundamentally change the software capability through legal wording.
Or to put it another way in PH speak: as you are about to sign the lease agreement for your base spec A180 at the Mercedes dealership, you change the specs of the car on the invoice to say that the car will now be capable of 200mph and that you will never need to pay for tyres out of your own pocket.
username acknowledged and appreciated Rather like a lot of people in this thread, I had a deep interest in computers, I knew I wanted a job in IT and here I am. But of course that deep interest meant very hands on work, which I did a lot of, thousands and thousands of hours worth in the earlier days. But you get to the point and realise there's a ceiling to your earning potential as an engineer / coder and you need to branch out into operations or management to earn more.
What has baffled / exasperated me the most in recent times is the contracting and legal process for software. The back and forth between vendor and buyer is crazy, with customers often just trying to write things completely their own way. That might work in some legal areas, but in the software industry it basically means the customer is trying to fundamentally change the software capability through legal wording.
Or to put it another way in PH speak: as you are about to sign the lease agreement for your base spec A180 at the Mercedes dealership, you change the specs of the car on the invoice to say that the car will now be capable of 200mph and that you will never need to pay for tyres out of your own pocket.
The craft of IT is thrilling. The business of IT is depressing. I spend my days reviewing contracts, dealing with the commercial theatricals that we go through every day with clients and their healthy and above board way of handing suppliers, spreadsheets, slide decks and video calls. I regularly think to myself, how did it come to this. I don't feel there is a group of people in the IT world now, that i feel like they are 'my people'. I used to feel so at home with engineers, and later with architects, but now i feel like I am on the outside. You can't effect positive change from the outside.
I've always struggled a bit with people... i've never been a natural raconteur or people person as such. I have learned and forced myself to be like this through years and years of trying (and failing, sometimes really badly) and I still feel I don't do it particularly well.... but i feel this latest role i have picked up there were some very negative stakeholders from the get-go. I'm not sure i have the will to try and win people around. I just don't feel like I give a s
t.Olivera said:
PurpleTurtle said:
26 years (and counting) an IBM Mainframe contractor coder checking in here - 23 of those with my current client co.
23 years at the same client, impressive, but also squeaky bum time.I can't see me taking an outside gig again to be honest. Just easier to try and get a bit more for an inside gig.
rustyuk said:
Unless you have been inside or using a brolly then I'd be retiring somewhere warm! HMRC just won something of a victory against an IT contractor at Nationwide. They had only been there 3 years, with a QDOS approved contract.
I can't see me taking an outside gig again to be honest. Just easier to try and get a bit more for an inside gig.
I've read about the Nationwide case, dosn't seem the same as an IBM contractor would be, it sounds like a one man band "workaholic" trying to avoid tax?I can't see me taking an outside gig again to be honest. Just easier to try and get a bit more for an inside gig.
I'm clearly the odd one out, or I'm easily pleased - a bit over 50, 30 years in "IT" with the same company (consultancy) and I still love it. I'm allowed (encouraged even) to be more technical, my boss is scarily technical, and at the top end of a large firm, remuneration is handsome. I don't have a sales target that anyone really cares about, I sell by doing. I started off cutting COBOL on Tandems and now I'm worrying about microservices on Kubernetes.
This afternoon was spent in a fun argument about data models for something I can't talk about. On some things I was wrong, others right. We came to a good conclusion in the end.
Don't get me wrong, some years have been ghastly slogs, but overall, I've had a really good time.
This afternoon was spent in a fun argument about data models for something I can't talk about. On some things I was wrong, others right. We came to a good conclusion in the end.
Don't get me wrong, some years have been ghastly slogs, but overall, I've had a really good time.
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
I'm an accountant and I think the same feeling applies to most people in office based roles once they get to the same stage in life.
Mid 40's and after 20 odd years of doing the same thing with no lasting legacy to show for it. I'd like to go it alone and build a business for myself.
I'm paying to have a team of people do my kitchen. With No training, I've previously done 2 kitchens, but I'd have to take 3 weeks off work and so it's a pure financial decision. The thing is, I've watched their progress and their attention to detail And I wish i hadn't choose to study engineering nearly 36 years ago..Mid 40's and after 20 odd years of doing the same thing with no lasting legacy to show for it. I'd like to go it alone and build a business for myself.
I'd rather have spent time doing stuff more practical.
Pit Pony said:
I wish i hadn't choose to study engineering nearly 36 years ago..
I'd rather have spent time doing stuff more practical.
I'm in two minds about my studying engineering. I was good at maths and physics (although I was also good at English and humanities) and my Dad had an engineering background, so it was the default choice. I'd rather have spent time doing stuff more practical.
I learned a lot, giving me a good understanding, but there was a huge amount of material on my very traditional course and it wasn't very practically focused.
Edited by Woodrow Wilson on Tuesday 29th June 22:58
Joey Deacon said:
Another issue is that when I first started I used to love messing with computers in my own time. I would love spending my weekends building PCs and installing software or building a home network and server. I was happy to spend hours messing around with Autoexec.bat and Config.sys just to release enough memory to get Grand Prix to run. There was no internet, so everything was self taught or learnt from others.
Now I have no interest in this whatsoever, I just want stuff to work. In the past I would relish the challenge of fixing things, now it is just an inconvenience.
I think that is half the problem, the interest and enthusiasm I used to have for computers has now completely vanished.
You sound like me. I remember the happy days when I could write a piece of code and know it would work, and keep working. Heck, for a while I was a consultant and we literally used to turn up, get the requirements in the morning, write the code in the afternoon and leave it fully tested and deployed by home time, safe in the knowledge it would keep working indefinitely.Now I have no interest in this whatsoever, I just want stuff to work. In the past I would relish the challenge of fixing things, now it is just an inconvenience.
I think that is half the problem, the interest and enthusiasm I used to have for computers has now completely vanished.
These days everything is "so easy" that it can take a week just to get the development environment working and the dependencies installed. And I have a constant slightly sick feeling that something is going to break at the worst possible moment. The "joy" of being able to update software remotely is tempered by the knowledge that all the other packages your code depends on are also liable to be randomly updated with the concurrent risk that your software will break.
Add in constant security attacks and exploits being found which means it's not just bug fixes happening under your feet, but the infosec team locking things down (and accidentally e.g. closing the port your code was using to talk to the database) and every day I wonder what crisis will land on my head this time.
Somehow now, with all the power of the internet to look up solutions, it has become necessary as there's 100 ways that something can fail. e.g. I have built plenty of K8s clusters, but I still find new ways for it to fall over in a heap with an obscure problem.
rustyuk said:
Olivera said:
PurpleTurtle said:
26 years (and counting) an IBM Mainframe contractor coder checking in here - 23 of those with my current client co.
23 years at the same client, impressive, but also squeaky bum time.I can't see me taking an outside gig again to be honest. Just easier to try and get a bit more for an inside gig.
The world of IT is every evolving. I dare say most people who clock 20+ years in IT started off by having genuine interest in the craft.
Renumeration was really great in late 80s and early 90s during the tech boom.
Nowadays it depends on how quickly you adapt and how many tools you have in your toolbox.
If you have the right skillset, or lucky enough to ascend to senior leadership, 6 figure pay is not uncommon.
However nowadays IT pays best in the US.
Renumeration was really great in late 80s and early 90s during the tech boom.
Nowadays it depends on how quickly you adapt and how many tools you have in your toolbox.
If you have the right skillset, or lucky enough to ascend to senior leadership, 6 figure pay is not uncommon.
However nowadays IT pays best in the US.
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