Applying for jobs - getting nowhere
Discussion
I work for a venture cap currently acting in a CTO role for one of our startups. I’m recruiting mainly devs, test guys.
It’s the first time I’ve recruited direct and without agency so an eye opener. I’d give this feedback although I’m no expert.
Applicant numbers are huge. 250 for a QA lead. Broken down.
160 not eligible for European work
Out of rest I’d say probably 8 meet the spec. To be clear we are not listing tens of skills people need just most are either not testers or not enough expierience. I have grads applying for roles that needs several years exp.
So probably 8 out of 250 worth an interview.
Things I’ve learned.
Compress that cv. I don’t read to end. If you only have a skill last used ten years ago it wouldn’t be considered anyway in most cases.
Get your skills that match role in top ten lines on cv. Match key words
Add a covering letter. It does help you standout in my view
Try to get an in. Every single guy who has been recommended by existing member of team has got interview straight off. Use linked in to message or connect.
The market is tough and I feel a lot of mainly senior jobs are not getting advertised.
As with other tech slumps it will pass. My personal view is in 18 months there will be a mass shortage again ,
Good luck
It’s the first time I’ve recruited direct and without agency so an eye opener. I’d give this feedback although I’m no expert.
Applicant numbers are huge. 250 for a QA lead. Broken down.
160 not eligible for European work
Out of rest I’d say probably 8 meet the spec. To be clear we are not listing tens of skills people need just most are either not testers or not enough expierience. I have grads applying for roles that needs several years exp.
So probably 8 out of 250 worth an interview.
Things I’ve learned.
Compress that cv. I don’t read to end. If you only have a skill last used ten years ago it wouldn’t be considered anyway in most cases.
Get your skills that match role in top ten lines on cv. Match key words
Add a covering letter. It does help you standout in my view
Try to get an in. Every single guy who has been recommended by existing member of team has got interview straight off. Use linked in to message or connect.
The market is tough and I feel a lot of mainly senior jobs are not getting advertised.
As with other tech slumps it will pass. My personal view is in 18 months there will be a mass shortage again ,
Good luck
Brink said:
Is that the Microsoft effect kicking in or just the crazy market?
LinkedIn isn’t a waste of time at all. It’s the primary port of call for a huge number of roles. What is a waste of time is ‘easy applying’ on there expecting to get a result. I’ve always approached hiring managers/recruitment teams once I’ve seen a role on there. Much better results. Failing that, using company website after having my seen initial ad on LI
Scabutz said:
It seems to have gotten worse since I started this thread. Fewer and fewer jobs coming up and I'm getting close to 0 response to any applications.
I'm now closer and close to a retention bonus that I might as well tough it out as nothing else is happening .
Alongside LinkedIn, also use Indeed.com if you are not already, as that is huge too. LinkedIn is well known globally, and any jobs will get lots of overseas applicants (especially from India) seeking to move to the UK, hence the large number of applicants. Most companies won't sponsor but they will apply regardless.I'm now closer and close to a retention bonus that I might as well tough it out as nothing else is happening .
Assuming you are tailoring your CV for each role and not just sending the same to each one?
JimJobs81 said:
Scabutz said:
I have been looking for a few months and probably applying for a 3-4 a week.
3-4 a week doesn't sound like many. Is that all there is, or are you being very selective?juggsy said:
I would like to use a recruiter but I’ve had such bad experiences with them in the past. Most just seem to want to fill the latest vacancy they have and don’t listen to what you’re looking for. Does anyone have a recommended recruiter who specialise in tech/software companies?
The recruiter was selected by the hiring manager, so your approach to not using them is wrong. Work with every recruiter (but don't fall for any cold sales ones who advertise fake jobs, and really just want your last managers name so they can sign them up).The recruiter is just a gateway man doing a bit of screening. Better to apply and turn down post interview rather than not apply at all.
juggsy said:
Little thread bump, but I’m also struggling to find roles that fit my skillset. I work for a global tech firm in a kind of non-technical pre sales role. Once I’m in front of someone I can sell myself and what I’m looking for, but on paper I struggle a little.
I would like to use a recruiter but I’ve had such bad experiences with them in the past. Most just seem to want to fill the latest vacancy they have and don’t listen to what you’re looking for. Does anyone have a recommended recruiter who specialise in tech/software companies?
I am a VP of Sales Engineering / Pre Sales for a US tech firm and have been in this space for a decade so I may be able to help or advise. I would like to use a recruiter but I’ve had such bad experiences with them in the past. Most just seem to want to fill the latest vacancy they have and don’t listen to what you’re looking for. Does anyone have a recommended recruiter who specialise in tech/software companies?
Happy to have a look at your resume and LinkedIn if you like?
Also, getting the attention of the hiring manager (often someone like me) can be very difficult but there are a few key unlocks:
- Tight, short and highly relevant CV (I can help you here if you like)
- CV that is full of metrics and less storytelling (Ironic for this role, but you get to do that when you get face to face)
- Customize each CV to each application to get through ATS systems. I would brazenly copy / paste / rearrange the job description into your CV as long as you are not lying.
- When you apply (Via the right channel) follow up directly with the hiring manager with a LinkedIn connection and add a short video (30 seconds max, use Vidyard). Use that video as a cover letter to tell your story. Don't ask anything of the hiring manager at that point though. Many people make the mistake of asking for a call or somehow going around the process. Don't do that... just use it as a selling opportunity.
- Treat this process like a sales process. It's a numbers game and larger the pipeline the better.. and the more personal the touch the higher the likelihood of progressing. Luckily, unlike sales where you need to land multiple deals.. this time you only need to land one. So make every single call / opportunity count.
- Move your mindset to selling yourself. You are the product this time rather than your software. Think back to every sales training you've ever done. Map your process to MEDDPICC (google it if you don't know it) But you should map yourself to every one of those letters. Happy to expand on this if needed, but it may be a long post.
- Related to one of the D in MEDDPICC.. decision process. Spend as much time and energy as possible in each step. For example it is worth spending time on customizing the CV for each opportunity, each step gets you to the next (or not) so it's worth it. No point half arsing it.
- Follow, engage with and talk to voices (Influencers *vomit*) on Linkedin. They are very well connected and if you add value to their posts (even post your own) you can get your name out there. Every comment get seen by hundreds of people, maybe even a hiring manager.
Plenty more thoughts, please DM me if you'd like to chat more.
I'd say the tech market is tough right now, while I agree with ISH thoughts about (though it does sound a bit like an SDR approach to booking a meeting to me), I think recommendations and leveraging network are going to be very impactful at this point in time.
Have you looked to leverage who you know at various companies that might be hiring?
Have you looked to leverage who you know at various companies that might be hiring?
I've been made redundant at short notice before Christmas - working directly for Yanks is always iffy!
In the past weeks I've seen some great roles on LinkedIn that I would be suitable for. I've applied and heard nothing back. Sometimes 20 applicants already, sometimes 200. It's soul destroying and I was really low in the first few days.
I have also reached out to my network, both with LinkedIn posts and directly to people I know. I have also reached out directly to companies I would like to work for. The results are astounding compared to applying via LinkedIn.
One direct introduction to someone who asked a contact if they could recommend someone for a role they needed to fill. Been offered a start date of 2nd Jan if I'm interested.
One verbal offer of a role in April.
One interview yesterday with a second round with the CEO on 2nd Jan.
One interview but unsure on January headcount - should be clear by end of week.
One "You're a perfect fit, we'll be looking to have a headcount suitable for you early in 2024"
One introduction to a manager and a request to create a role for me as they need my skills.
Moral of the story is - get on that phone to people you know.
In the past weeks I've seen some great roles on LinkedIn that I would be suitable for. I've applied and heard nothing back. Sometimes 20 applicants already, sometimes 200. It's soul destroying and I was really low in the first few days.
I have also reached out to my network, both with LinkedIn posts and directly to people I know. I have also reached out directly to companies I would like to work for. The results are astounding compared to applying via LinkedIn.
One direct introduction to someone who asked a contact if they could recommend someone for a role they needed to fill. Been offered a start date of 2nd Jan if I'm interested.
One verbal offer of a role in April.
One interview yesterday with a second round with the CEO on 2nd Jan.
One interview but unsure on January headcount - should be clear by end of week.
One "You're a perfect fit, we'll be looking to have a headcount suitable for you early in 2024"
One introduction to a manager and a request to create a role for me as they need my skills.
Moral of the story is - get on that phone to people you know.
LinkedIn is only any good as a leading indicator.
I saw a role posted, added the CRO immediately on LI, got a chat booked in 10 minutes later. It had 900 applicants on LI allegedly the following 24 hours. My point is that it can help you see things very early but as you said above, useless applying for them on there, you have to leverage network/cold outreach to hiring manager to get the result.
I saw a role posted, added the CRO immediately on LI, got a chat booked in 10 minutes later. It had 900 applicants on LI allegedly the following 24 hours. My point is that it can help you see things very early but as you said above, useless applying for them on there, you have to leverage network/cold outreach to hiring manager to get the result.
This is where my pathological hatred of and habitual avoidance of networking is coming back to bite me.
Having said that I did speak to a local recruiter I have known for years. He had a role that sounded good and put me forward for. Haven't heard back though so maybe it's a no go, or maybe they've just decided to pick it up in the new year.
Having said that I did speak to a local recruiter I have known for years. He had a role that sounded good and put me forward for. Haven't heard back though so maybe it's a no go, or maybe they've just decided to pick it up in the new year.
Scabutz said:
This is where my pathological hatred of and habitual avoidance of networking is coming back to bite me.
Having said that I did speak to a local recruiter I have known for years. He had a role that sounded good and put me forward for. Haven't heard back though so maybe it's a no go, or maybe they've just decided to pick it up in the new year.
All recruiters are on a go-slow this week and even more so next week as clients all disappear off on holidays. Don't expect much back until early Jan.Having said that I did speak to a local recruiter I have known for years. He had a role that sounded good and put me forward for. Haven't heard back though so maybe it's a no go, or maybe they've just decided to pick it up in the new year.
On those LinkedIn numbers that's only the people who've clicked the apply button not the actual applicants so don't let it put you off. You do benefit from being early but loads may click through, not complete the actual application or see some details of the job and bail completely.
Puggit said:
I've been made redundant at short notice before Christmas - working directly for Yanks is always iffy!
In the past weeks I've seen some great roles on LinkedIn that I would be suitable for. I've applied and heard nothing back. Sometimes 20 applicants already, sometimes 200. It's soul destroying and I was really low in the first few days.
I have also reached out to my network, both with LinkedIn posts and directly to people I know. I have also reached out directly to companies I would like to work for. The results are astounding compared to applying via LinkedIn.
One direct introduction to someone who asked a contact if they could recommend someone for a role they needed to fill. Been offered a start date of 2nd Jan if I'm interested.
One verbal offer of a role in April.
One interview yesterday with a second round with the CEO on 2nd Jan.
One interview but unsure on January headcount - should be clear by end of week.
One "You're a perfect fit, we'll be looking to have a headcount suitable for you early in 2024"
One introduction to a manager and a request to create a role for me as they need my skills.
Moral of the story is - get on that phone to people you know.
Great story! So you just sent them a PM telling them that you are looking for a new position? I assume you didn't post anything up directly on your feed?In the past weeks I've seen some great roles on LinkedIn that I would be suitable for. I've applied and heard nothing back. Sometimes 20 applicants already, sometimes 200. It's soul destroying and I was really low in the first few days.
I have also reached out to my network, both with LinkedIn posts and directly to people I know. I have also reached out directly to companies I would like to work for. The results are astounding compared to applying via LinkedIn.
One direct introduction to someone who asked a contact if they could recommend someone for a role they needed to fill. Been offered a start date of 2nd Jan if I'm interested.
One verbal offer of a role in April.
One interview yesterday with a second round with the CEO on 2nd Jan.
One interview but unsure on January headcount - should be clear by end of week.
One "You're a perfect fit, we'll be looking to have a headcount suitable for you early in 2024"
One introduction to a manager and a request to create a role for me as they need my skills.
Moral of the story is - get on that phone to people you know.
I really feel for you guys nowadays. When I used to apply for jobs ( I’m not in the tech sector) it was send a cv in, 1 or poss 2 interviews and then a job offer. My eldest son has just been through the job application process ( engineering) and I think that was something like 5 interviews.
I’m looking to retire but in the industry I work in there has always been a shortage of people doing what I do so getting a job has never been a problem. I told my employer I wanted out 18 months ago and they are still struggling to find a replacement.
I’m looking to retire but in the industry I work in there has always been a shortage of people doing what I do so getting a job has never been a problem. I told my employer I wanted out 18 months ago and they are still struggling to find a replacement.
After a year of looking I gave up. Applied to low skilled work that I have experience in as well as skilled work that I’ve also got experience in and got nowhere. Out of 500 ish applications, I got 4 interviews and no offers. Had my cv reviewed and still not any better luck. Got to admit that I’m terrible at interviews and had a panic attack and ended up apologising and leaving early so it’s no wonder I didn’t get it 
In the end I decided conventional employment isn’t for me and have started retraining into something I can do self employed. It’s a tough world out there
In the end I decided conventional employment isn’t for me and have started retraining into something I can do self employed. It’s a tough world out there
Edited by NAAHD on Monday 25th December 17:43
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