Applying for jobs - getting nowhere
Discussion
NAAHD said:
Out of 500 ish applications, I got 4 interviews and no offers. Had my cv reviewed and still not any better luck. Got to admit that I’m terrible at interviews
That is an amazing statistic! One has to ask:Edited by NAAHD on Monday 25th December 17:43
- were you applying for jobs that you could genuinely do?
- were you personalising each application for the role in front of you?
- when you say you had your CV reviewed, was this a face-to-face review or just feedback on a particular copy of your CV?
- have you ever undertaken any interview training?
I think there’s probably something fundamentally wrong with your approach; I’d be delighted therefore to assist you overcome this if that was helpful as I’m sure there’s a way through this.
Otherwise good luck going forwards.
rog007 said:
NAAHD said:
Out of 500 ish applications, I got 4 interviews and no offers. Had my cv reviewed and still not any better luck. Got to admit that I’m terrible at interviews
That is an amazing statistic! One has to ask:Edited by NAAHD on Monday 25th December 17:43
- were you applying for jobs that you could genuinely do?
- were you personalising each application for the role in front of you?
- when you say you had your CV reviewed, was this a face-to-face review or just feedback on a particular copy of your CV?
- have you ever undertaken any interview training?
I think there’s probably something fundamentally wrong with your approach; I’d be delighted therefore to assist you overcome this if that was helpful as I’m sure there’s a way through this.
Otherwise good luck going forwards.
but didn’t get it in the end (content and marketing). My CV was reviewed by an employment coach on a couple of occasions but just over video call. Did some volunteer work in mental health and marketing and put it on my CV with glowing references but it didn’t translate into anything more.
When it comes to actually being at the interview, I know I’m the issue but in the past I seemed to get work regardless. For every 5 applications I’d convert one into an interview and that was before I had much experience. I even landed a job I couldn’t do just because they liked my attitude but got let go as I wasn’t picking it up. No hard feelings as we both knew it was a risk but I quite literally went from walking into work to being completely unable to land it. Hell at one time I was working 2 jobs and had more offers on the table.
But since I’m not one to quit, I decided to enrol in evening college and learn a hands on skill that will hopefully allow me to make my own money
nute said:
I really feel for you guys nowadays. When I used to apply for jobs ( I’m not in the tech sector) it was send a cv in, 1 or poss 2 interviews and then a job offer. My eldest son has just been through the job application process ( engineering) and I think that was something like 5 interviews.
I must be lucky! Applied for three jobs so far that have now passed closing dates - interviewed for two, both were one-and-only / final.Both were with three people, on Teams.
Both required a pre-prepared presentation on nominated topic relevant to the role.
Got one offer (not the one I would have preferred!), but there’s another one I’ve applied for with closing date end of this month.
Don’t know why anyone would need more than one interview, on top of skills / experience evidenced application, and questions following a presentation where you’ll be immediately spotted for bulls
tting? And these are mainly public sector jobs where you’d expect layers of bureaucracy (if you believe the received wisdom)! Fortunately, seem to be a lot of demand out there for data / analytics / “insights” (new buzzword?) roles if you have specific sector knowledge. GIS also in demand. They also seem to like Power BI (I’m prejudiced against it as a result of all the beautifully presented utter dross I’ve seen), SQL (fair enough), and - usually unnecessary for the role IMHO - Python.
applying for jobs is just a broken idea nowadays with the advent of linkedin and made even worse with the extra supply of people into the jobseekers' pool (in tech at least), due to economic downturn. You need to start building a strong network of recruiters in your chosen field and get them to really understand you and what makes you different, and what you've achieved. This is the only way to get a job in tech these days. I am not talking about 2 or 3 recruiters either - you need probably a general field of 30 or so, with 5-10 that know you really well. If they feel you are valuable (and you should be?) then they will contact you when they have a suitable role, and periodically to see how you're getting on. A good recruiter will only propose a very small number of candidates to their client so you need to work hardest at getting on those shortlists, not firing off endless applications to sit in a pile of 100 that they won't even read most of.
A few years ago I got nothing a total dead spot I had 15 years experience in the field and at some big named firms. I looked at my CV and one agency said "you don't have RWA experience" (Risk weighted assests being a measure of risk banks manage). I had things like Corep, IRB, standardised etc which are reports showing rwa and methods of calculating it i.e. what you would be doing in a role but not the word RWA.
So now my CV has a list of key skills literally a list of buzz words at the start....now the filters pick up my CV etc.
It's BS but goes to show no one reads a CV
So now my CV has a list of key skills literally a list of buzz words at the start....now the filters pick up my CV etc.
It's BS but goes to show no one reads a CV
Gecko1978 said:
A few years ago I got nothing a total dead spot I had 15 years experience in the field and at some big named firms. I looked at my CV and one agency said "you don't have RWA experience" (Risk weighted assests being a measure of risk banks manage). I had things like Corep, IRB, standardised etc which are reports showing rwa and methods of calculating it i.e. what you would be doing in a role but not the word RWA.
So now my CV has a list of key skills literally a list of buzz words at the start....now the filters pick up my CV etc.
It's BS but goes to show no one reads a CV
They do but can't go through thousands of CVs to begin with. They essentially use a recruiter's Google to find CVs with matching keywords and then read from there.So now my CV has a list of key skills literally a list of buzz words at the start....now the filters pick up my CV etc.
It's BS but goes to show no one reads a CV
Also, one tip I have from my previous life was to reupload your CV onto the main sites weekly. recruiters look for the right skills and also new candidates coming onto the market
Blown2CV said:
applying for jobs is just a broken idea nowadays with the advent of linkedin and made even worse with the extra supply of people into the jobseekers' pool (in tech at least), due to economic downturn. You need to start building a strong network of recruiters in your chosen field and get them to really understand you and what makes you different, and what you've achieved. This is the only way to get a job in tech these days. I am not talking about 2 or 3 recruiters either - you need probably a general field of 30 or so, with 5-10 that know you really well. If they feel you are valuable (and you should be?) then they will contact you when they have a suitable role, and periodically to see how you're getting on. A good recruiter will only propose a very small number of candidates to their client so you need to work hardest at getting on those shortlists, not firing off endless applications to sit in a pile of 100 that they won't even read most of.
Not great advice I’m afraid in my experience. Recruiters are old news in tech. Someone mentioned earlier about direct networking with the hiring manager which is a good approach alongside personal referrals. Hardly any tech companies use external recruiters these days.
InformationSuperHighway said:
Blown2CV said:
applying for jobs is just a broken idea nowadays with the advent of linkedin and made even worse with the extra supply of people into the jobseekers' pool (in tech at least), due to economic downturn. You need to start building a strong network of recruiters in your chosen field and get them to really understand you and what makes you different, and what you've achieved. This is the only way to get a job in tech these days. I am not talking about 2 or 3 recruiters either - you need probably a general field of 30 or so, with 5-10 that know you really well. If they feel you are valuable (and you should be?) then they will contact you when they have a suitable role, and periodically to see how you're getting on. A good recruiter will only propose a very small number of candidates to their client so you need to work hardest at getting on those shortlists, not firing off endless applications to sit in a pile of 100 that they won't even read most of.
Not great advice I’m afraid in my experience. Recruiters are old news in tech. Someone mentioned earlier about direct networking with the hiring manager which is a good approach alongside personal referrals. Hardly any tech companies use external recruiters these days.
Network building takes many shapes, and the first step to urgently getting a role is ensuring you have a decent coverage into recruitment. Other really important routes are via the types of exec that might hire you. That has worked very well for me in the last few years. I've found many people like this to be surprisingly open and willing to maintain channels of communication, give advice and mentoring etc., even if there are no current roles. Longer term you could pursue only networking via exec hiring managers, but it is quite a cumbersome thing to maintain if you have a lot of them. This isn't a route really open to people looking for roles at any level; and probably only works for senior candidates.
I disagree that you can just network with anyone who might be a hiring manager across your industry without knowing there is a role. If you don't know there is a role, then where do you stop? 500 outbound emails to anyone with manager in their title? Stupid and equally cumbersome as applying for roles and sitting in piles of hundreds of candidates. Or, do you only target the ones who are currently hiring for people like you? If so, this is dangerous as it makes you appear like you are trying to circumvent the recruitment process in order to gain unfair advantage. Many managers don't like this approach.
Personal referrals of course work and always have, but again it only works if you know someone who is willing to put you forward and there is a role you have seen. If you know enough people in the industry you are targeting, then you can likely message a number of people inside an organisation to ask them to put in a good word with the hiring manager, and this often works better than a single vanilla referral. Referrals are heading the way of being broken anyway as you only need to look on somewhere like fishbowl and you can see referrals being traded between strangers en masse. Pretty soon they will mean nothing too.
Blown2CV said:
InformationSuperHighway said:
Blown2CV said:
applying for jobs is just a broken idea nowadays with the advent of linkedin and made even worse with the extra supply of people into the jobseekers' pool (in tech at least), due to economic downturn. You need to start building a strong network of recruiters in your chosen field and get them to really understand you and what makes you different, and what you've achieved. This is the only way to get a job in tech these days. I am not talking about 2 or 3 recruiters either - you need probably a general field of 30 or so, with 5-10 that know you really well. If they feel you are valuable (and you should be?) then they will contact you when they have a suitable role, and periodically to see how you're getting on. A good recruiter will only propose a very small number of candidates to their client so you need to work hardest at getting on those shortlists, not firing off endless applications to sit in a pile of 100 that they won't even read most of.
Not great advice I’m afraid in my experience. Recruiters are old news in tech. Someone mentioned earlier about direct networking with the hiring manager which is a good approach alongside personal referrals. Hardly any tech companies use external recruiters these days.
Network building takes many shapes, and the first step to urgently getting a role is ensuring you have a decent coverage into recruitment. Other really important routes are via the types of exec that might hire you. That has worked very well for me in the last few years. I've found many people like this to be surprisingly open and willing to maintain channels of communication, give advice and mentoring etc., even if there are no current roles. Longer term you could pursue only networking via exec hiring managers, but it is quite a cumbersome thing to maintain if you have a lot of them. This isn't a route really open to people looking for roles at any level; and probably only works for senior candidates.
I disagree that you can just network with anyone who might be a hiring manager across your industry without knowing there is a role. If you don't know there is a role, then where do you stop? 500 outbound emails to anyone with manager in their title? Stupid and equally cumbersome as applying for roles and sitting in piles of hundreds of candidates. Or, do you only target the ones who are currently hiring for people like you? If so, this is dangerous as it makes you appear like you are trying to circumvent the recruitment process in order to gain unfair advantage. Many managers don't like this approach.
Personal referrals of course work and always have, but again it only works if you know someone who is willing to put you forward and there is a role you have seen. If you know enough people in the industry you are targeting, then you can likely message a number of people inside an organisation to ask them to put in a good word with the hiring manager, and this often works better than a single vanilla referral. Referrals are heading the way of being broken anyway as you only need to look on somewhere like fishbowl and you can see referrals being traded between strangers en masse. Pretty soon they will mean nothing too.
And one think I will add RE CV writing: you need to state what YOU did, what it improved and how this benefitted the business in terms of metrics (productivity, profit etc).
Minimize your weaknesses (short job stints etc) and highlight your strengths.
Interview advice:
Have prepared answers for any awkward questions.
Try not to criticise ex-employers as it looks bad.
Yes I'd agree with Blown2CV too. Every firm I have worked with used a preferred supplier list of recruitment agencies. We also had in-house recruiters and advertised directly, but the agents were in the mix.
The applicant tracking systems are probably worse now than they were twenty years ago (I worked in the field so saw "behind the curtain, behind the curtain", working on the actual code). The advice about stuffing keywords into your CV is sadly true. Before your CV gets near the hiring manager it will have been filtered by one or more of Automated System, Recruitment Agent, HR Assistent (aka "Talent Acquisition Specialist") and possibly even by a junior member of the team tasked with filtering the long list to a short list. So you potentially have four chances to be filtered out if you miss a buzz word or acronym.
Then you have to get past the hiring manager and again, the advice to describe what you did as measurable achievements is golden. Not "I managed a team of five people building houses" but "Running a team of five I constructed 15 new houses which we sold at 40% margin making £2 million profit".
The applicant tracking systems are probably worse now than they were twenty years ago (I worked in the field so saw "behind the curtain, behind the curtain", working on the actual code). The advice about stuffing keywords into your CV is sadly true. Before your CV gets near the hiring manager it will have been filtered by one or more of Automated System, Recruitment Agent, HR Assistent (aka "Talent Acquisition Specialist") and possibly even by a junior member of the team tasked with filtering the long list to a short list. So you potentially have four chances to be filtered out if you miss a buzz word or acronym.
Then you have to get past the hiring manager and again, the advice to describe what you did as measurable achievements is golden. Not "I managed a team of five people building houses" but "Running a team of five I constructed 15 new houses which we sold at 40% margin making £2 million profit".
sunnyb13 said:
how are you getting on?
I've noticed a massive uptick in jobs and interviews at the moment.
I had an interview last week which I think went well, waiting to hear back. Not noticed much uptick, LinkedIn seems to have changed its algo and the results are getting muddled, so its showing me director of engineering roles that are engineering in the traditional sense, not software engineering.I've noticed a massive uptick in jobs and interviews at the moment.
I havent looked as much recently either. Im closer to a retention bonus paying out so it would need to be a big jump for me to leave now. Still not exactly enjoying the job but the bonus is big enough to do its job and keep me there for now
Scabutz said:
sunnyb13 said:
how are you getting on?
I've noticed a massive uptick in jobs and interviews at the moment.
I had an interview last week which I think went well, waiting to hear back. Not noticed much uptick, LinkedIn seems to have changed its algo and the results are getting muddled, so its showing me director of engineering roles that are engineering in the traditional sense, not software engineering.I've noticed a massive uptick in jobs and interviews at the moment.
I havent looked as much recently either. Im closer to a retention bonus paying out so it would need to be a big jump for me to leave now. Still not exactly enjoying the job but the bonus is big enough to do its job and keep me there for now
Well the interview I had recently went very well it seems and I've been offered the role. Decent bump in pay as well.
I will miss out on my retention bonus but actually with the new pay and bonus in place at the new role I will only be slightly worse off Yr1 and then much better off after that.
Need to say special thanks to dibblecorse for sorting my CV out. Cheers buddy.
I will miss out on my retention bonus but actually with the new pay and bonus in place at the new role I will only be slightly worse off Yr1 and then much better off after that.
Need to say special thanks to dibblecorse for sorting my CV out. Cheers buddy.
Scabutz said:
Well the interview I had recently went very well it seems and I've been offered the role. Decent bump in pay as well.
I will miss out on my retention bonus but actually with the new pay and bonus in place at the new role I will only be slightly worse off Yr1 and then much better off after that.
Need to say special thanks to dibblecorse for sorting my CV out. Cheers buddy.
Congratulations, good to hear some positive news!I will miss out on my retention bonus but actually with the new pay and bonus in place at the new role I will only be slightly worse off Yr1 and then much better off after that.
Need to say special thanks to dibblecorse for sorting my CV out. Cheers buddy.
I managed to land an outside IR35 role and started a couple of weeks ago now.
This was via word of mouth, the other remaining five people I know of are still looking and one since July.
I found using linked in and picking up the phone really helped find some leads for possible upcoming work.
Edited by vindaloo79 on Wednesday 14th February 09:33
Job market feels very competitive at the moment. I’ve been recruiting for roles whilst also looking for a new job.
The amount of applications for roles is probably double what we were receiving a year ago.
I work in football and recently went for a relatively mid-senior role, and I had to go through a 5 interview process! (To then not get offered the job)
The amount of applications for roles is probably double what we were receiving a year ago.
I work in football and recently went for a relatively mid-senior role, and I had to go through a 5 interview process! (To then not get offered the job)
okgo said:
Anyone used any of the new AI tools for CV creation? Seems there’s also AI tools for job hunting too.
5 interviews isn’t so bad, I had 7 here.
I’ve used ChatGPT several times. I put my Cv into it, copy the job description and get it to re-write my CV specifically for that job. 5 interviews isn’t so bad, I had 7 here.
i really dunno about using AI for CVs just yet. I can already spot something written by genAI a mile off. They just have quite a cumbersome and generic way of writing. I can't really explain it. The idea really is to try and really maximise your strengths and match it to the role you are applying for. I'm not sure AI is there yet.
Having said that I paid someone £170 to re-write mine a couple of years ago and I had to make a ton of changes as she kind of missed the point a bit and tried to make me sound like a salesman, so there is no silver bullet really.
First step is knowing your own value and differentiators. You should be able to say what you're great at and why you're different very easily, verbally. If you can't do it verbally then you'll struggle on paper.
Having said that I paid someone £170 to re-write mine a couple of years ago and I had to make a ton of changes as she kind of missed the point a bit and tried to make me sound like a salesman, so there is no silver bullet really.
First step is knowing your own value and differentiators. You should be able to say what you're great at and why you're different very easily, verbally. If you can't do it verbally then you'll struggle on paper.
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