Gross Misconduct?
Discussion
Mr Penguin said:
We had someone who did something similar, he did have genuine mitigating circumstances and was otherwise a model and talented employee - he was given a formal warning and was watched like a hawk for months afterwards until he left.
Gossiping and insulting people behind their backs is just a type of bullying.
If someone was suffering through stress, or poor mental health I’d treat it very differently, but if it was just someone who resented management then there’s no benefit to keeping them on.Gossiping and insulting people behind their backs is just a type of bullying.
Those who’d write that sort of thing are never good employees.
Ken_Code said:
dundarach said:
I can't imagine calling your boss a cock to their face would be an instant dismissal, I'm calling either BS or much more going on.
Maybe not, but this was published to a group in writing.I’d not entertain keeping someone on who did this
Ken_Code said:
If someone was suffering through stress, or poor mental health I’d treat it very differently, but if it was just someone who resented management then there’s no benefit to keeping them on.
Those who’d write that sort of thing are never good employees.
Perhaps the gaffer is that bad that the staff feel the need to say what they did.Those who’d write that sort of thing are never good employees.
The reaction says a lot.
Ken_Code said:
If someone was suffering through stress, or poor mental health I’d treat it very differently, but if it was just someone who resented management then there’s no benefit to keeping them on.
Those who’d write that sort of thing are never good employees.
This one was suffering from documented mental health problems and had an external trigger and some very heavy medication (he couldn't even remember what he said) all coming together at once, and had previously been very enthusiastic about the person he was insulting and it was very out of character.Those who’d write that sort of thing are never good employees.
Ken_Code said:
paulrockliffe said:
I ran the OP past my wife, who is a very experienced employment lawyer, and her advice was the opposite of this. High risk that the dismissal would be found to be unfair.
I’d be happy to take that risk.I’d have them escorted out, pass taken off them, and any future reference making clear why they were let go.
Mr Penguin said:
So what was said in the 10-20 messages before this was said or the justification for saying it at that time? I struggle to believe that someone would say that out of the blue without any immediate reason. More likely it was a long conversation with people complaining or the manager said or did something to him that day.
There was suspicions that there was someone within the union whatsapp group passing information back to the company.After a discussion about pay talks on the group someone said "the mole will be loving it today"
A manager 1 level below the top manager then said "f
k em and I hope they get knob rot"The guy suspended then replied "gob rot from John's Cock".
The only issue that is being highlighted is that he named the top manager directly. They've classed it as harassment and that's what he's been suspended for.
If anything its proved there's a mole.
Edited by Hondashark on Sunday 14th April 00:28
Ken_Code said:
If someone was suffering through stress, or poor mental health I’d treat it very differently, but if it was just someone who resented management then there’s no benefit to keeping them on.
Those who’d write that sort of thing are never good employees.
Most of us at work said some very rude stuff about our (then) boss, but not in writing.Those who’d write that sort of thing are never good employees.
He is now under investigation after the company went into liquidation owing lots of money to employees, suppliers, banks, and the tax man.
But employees are always the baddies, of course, so we are clearly unemployable now.
Hondashark said:
The only issue that is being highlighted is that he named the top manager directly. They've classed it as harassment and that's what he's been suspended for.
If anything its proved there's a mole.
How can it be harassment without being directed at the individual?If anything its proved there's a mole.
Edited by Hondashark on Sunday 14th April 00:28
Ken_Code said:
paulrockliffe said:
That attitude is a good part of why my wife gets paid so much and I don't have to work too hard, so thanks!
That attitude is one part why my bank pays me so well to manage a trading floor.Your wife will be on significantly less.
hole come naturally to you, or do you have to work at it?Ken_Code said:
I’d be happy to take that risk.
I’d have them escorted out, pass taken off them, and any future reference making clear why they were let go.
Your employer may be happy for you to risk unlawful terminations as a cost of business. Not usually the sign of a good employer, but we know certain industries have reputations for being awful. I’d have them escorted out, pass taken off them, and any future reference making clear why they were let go.
I’d be cautioning the employer against trying to follow through this course of action in what is essentially private group. If it was work email it might be different.
It’ll open a can of worms. There will be managers who are mates with union guys and something may get said between them in their messages or on the golf course one day and someone may throw the precedent set above back at management.
As for that union whatsapp group. We used to just keep the shop stewards as admins and only we could post in the group, if you had anything important to say then you’d message us privately. Calling the boss a dick doesn’t really enter any public domain then
It’ll open a can of worms. There will be managers who are mates with union guys and something may get said between them in their messages or on the golf course one day and someone may throw the precedent set above back at management.
As for that union whatsapp group. We used to just keep the shop stewards as admins and only we could post in the group, if you had anything important to say then you’d message us privately. Calling the boss a dick doesn’t really enter any public domain then
dundarach said:
Hondashark said:
dundarach said:
I can't imagine calling your boss a cock to their face would be an instant dismissal, I'm calling either BS or much more going on.
There's always one on a thread, today it's you.NuckyThompson said:
As for that union whatsapp group. We used to just keep the shop stewards as admins and only we could post in the group, if you had anything important to say then you’d message us privately. Calling the boss a dick doesn’t really enter any public domain then
Yeah after the first guy got suspended it got changed to admin post only. This is now over 2 months later they are still trawling through old messagesForester1965 said:
Your employer may be happy for you to risk unlawful terminations as a cost of business. Not usually the sign of a good employer,
Not necessarily. Sometimes (more often than not) your staff will thank you for pulling the trigger and clearing out a wastrel in the team. Ken_Code said:
ATG said:
Well then you'd better expect to be handed your backside in an employment tribunal
It’s not happened in twenty years of managing people in investment banking. There is absolutely no requirement to keep people on who are disruptive.That is very different to just sacking someone.
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