redundancy - consultation period?
Discussion
Mrs gti's place of employment is closing end of september, and they advised mid august that some roles will be redundant.
They have not formally offered anyone redundancy as yet. Mrs gti is going to push for redundancy whatever happens as she has got other things to pursue.
As i understand (most likely incorrectly) she is legally entitled to redundancy pay of minimum 1 week per yr of service plus notice period of 3 months.
This is fine, but when does the notice period start from?
Is it from notice issued mid August announcing that branch is closing or from the day when she is officially told she is being made redundant?
Given that she is potentially going to be unemployed in 3 weeks, but hasnt been officially told, what is she legally entitled to in terms of payout? (worked there for 2ys 11 months if it matters).
They have not formally offered anyone redundancy as yet. Mrs gti is going to push for redundancy whatever happens as she has got other things to pursue.
As i understand (most likely incorrectly) she is legally entitled to redundancy pay of minimum 1 week per yr of service plus notice period of 3 months.
This is fine, but when does the notice period start from?
Is it from notice issued mid August announcing that branch is closing or from the day when she is officially told she is being made redundant?
Given that she is potentially going to be unemployed in 3 weeks, but hasnt been officially told, what is she legally entitled to in terms of payout? (worked there for 2ys 11 months if it matters).
Currently going through this myself.
Consultancy period is 21 days. Company must offer alternative roles if they are applicable, however you will get no preferential treatment when applying.
Statutory notice period starts after the end of the consultation period. You get one week per year of employment, or your contracted notice period, whichever is longer, that is unless the company needs you to stay on for longer for whatever reason. If they are not going to make you work the notice period, then they have to pay you for it.
Statutory payment is one weeks pay per year of service, capped at £350. An employer can choose to pay more if they wish.
Consultancy period is 21 days. Company must offer alternative roles if they are applicable, however you will get no preferential treatment when applying.
Statutory notice period starts after the end of the consultation period. You get one week per year of employment, or your contracted notice period, whichever is longer, that is unless the company needs you to stay on for longer for whatever reason. If they are not going to make you work the notice period, then they have to pay you for it.
Statutory payment is one weeks pay per year of service, capped at £350. An employer can choose to pay more if they wish.
gti tim said:
Is it from notice issued mid August announcing that branch is closing or from the day when she is officially told she is being made redundant?
The latter.gti tim said:
Given that she is potentially going to be unemployed in 3 weeks, but hasnt been officially told, what is she legally entitled to in terms of payout? (worked there for 2ys 11 months if it matters).
When does it become 3 years? That might have a bearing. If she has been there 2yrs 11 months as of now, and the consultancy period has begun, she will tick over into 3 years full service whilst working her notice period and they will have to base the stat notice period and payout based on 3 years.
I tick over to 8 years by literally 3 days before my last day so my company has had to work out everything based on 8yrs service.
I tick over to 8 years by literally 3 days before my last day so my company has had to work out everything based on 8yrs service.
So effectively she is already in her notice period then, as they announced closure and therefore possible redundancies mid August. They have offered no suitable alternative employment, and she has basically told them they have nothing suitable, make me redundant.
As i understand it once work ends 29th Sept, she will get her two weeks redundancy pay plus notice period of 3 months - notice given ( ie from now to end sept),
what i was concerned was that she hasnt formally been offered redundancy yet, but is still technically in notice period? Doesnt seem right to me that shes not been told she has no job but is eating into the notice period. 3 months notice plus 2 weeks redundancy at end of month would tide us over until new year for her to find something else. Obviously if notice started when consultation did, then it will only be 6 wks notice paid at end of sept.
As i understand it once work ends 29th Sept, she will get her two weeks redundancy pay plus notice period of 3 months - notice given ( ie from now to end sept),
what i was concerned was that she hasnt formally been offered redundancy yet, but is still technically in notice period? Doesnt seem right to me that shes not been told she has no job but is eating into the notice period. 3 months notice plus 2 weeks redundancy at end of month would tide us over until new year for her to find something else. Obviously if notice started when consultation did, then it will only be 6 wks notice paid at end of sept.
They are useless - all that has happened is they sent her a letter when on holiday on 25th August to say branch closing end sept, risk of redundancy etc etc etc.
She had a meeting last week where they asked if she would relocate, take pay cut, retrain etc. That's been it so far. That was dated 3/9 and is titled as a 'Consultation Notice' which she signed to say she was aware of risk of redundancy etc.
Supposed to get second meeting next week where she finds out whats happening. She has still not been told if she is getting made redundant.
All she wants is to know exactly what she will be entitled to i.e notice from what date, how much redundancy pay, when will be paid etc
She had a meeting last week where they asked if she would relocate, take pay cut, retrain etc. That's been it so far. That was dated 3/9 and is titled as a 'Consultation Notice' which she signed to say she was aware of risk of redundancy etc.
Supposed to get second meeting next week where she finds out whats happening. She has still not been told if she is getting made redundant.
All she wants is to know exactly what she will be entitled to i.e notice from what date, how much redundancy pay, when will be paid etc
Mrs GTi sounds like she is currently at risk of redundancy and going through a consultation period. Assuming that there are fewer than 20 at risk, this can be of any reasonable length decided by the company (more than this and it has to be no less than 30 days).
At the end of this period the company will decide whether to go ahead, and whether Mrs G will be selected as redundant.
They will convene a meeting and give notice of redundancy. Some companies, a very few, make people work their notice period, but most pay in lieu of notice plus any redundancy due. In both cases the clock starts ticking and the calculation is made on the day of the dismissal meeting.
At the end of this period the company will decide whether to go ahead, and whether Mrs G will be selected as redundant.
They will convene a meeting and give notice of redundancy. Some companies, a very few, make people work their notice period, but most pay in lieu of notice plus any redundancy due. In both cases the clock starts ticking and the calculation is made on the day of the dismissal meeting.
Marf said:
Currently going through this myself.
Consultancy period is 21 days.
Hi, I've just joined the club. Can I ask is that 21 days applicable to all individuals or just you?Consultancy period is 21 days.
I've had a look at various sites but can't find info on minimum individual consultation periods.
Im interested to know if I am effectively guaranteed 21 days + my contractual notice.
or
If the consulation period can finish quickly and they get me straight into my notice period.
Thanks
AndyAudi said:
Marf said:
Currently going through this myself.
Consultancy period is 21 days.
Hi, I've just joined the club. Can I ask is that 21 days applicable to all individuals or just you?Consultancy period is 21 days.
I've had a look at various sites but can't find info on minimum individual consultation periods.
Im interested to know if I am effectively guaranteed 21 days + my contractual notice.
or
If the consulation period can finish quickly and they get me straight into my notice period.
Thanks
The notice period depends on your years of service. You will work whichever is longer of one week per year of service or your contractual notice period.
My contractual notice period is 6 weeks, but I have been with the company 8 years so I will work for 8 weeks past the end of the consultancy period.
ETA: the company can choose to lay you off earlier, but must pay you for your contractual/statutory notice period.
Edited by Marf on Thursday 10th September 15:10
AndyAudi said:
Marf said:
Currently going through this myself.
Consultancy period is 21 days.
Hi, I've just joined the club. Can I ask is that 21 days applicable to all individuals or just you?Consultancy period is 21 days.
I've had a look at various sites but can't find info on minimum individual consultation periods.
Im interested to know if I am effectively guaranteed 21 days + my contractual notice.
or
If the consulation period can finish quickly and they get me straight into my notice period.
Thanks
In this case, if the employer has said 21 days, then 21 it is. If not, and if it was just an indication, then it could be called to an end earlier than this.
Bonefish Blues said:
As I stated in my post above, below 20 people, the test is one of reasonableness - highly unlikely that 1 day would be held to be reasonable in most circumstances, but 7 days could be etc Depends on how substantive the consultation is.
In this case, if the employer has said 21 days, then 21 it is. If not, and if it was just an indication, then it could be called to an end earlier than this.
Thanks read you're post after posting mine.In this case, if the employer has said 21 days, then 21 it is. If not, and if it was just an indication, then it could be called to an end earlier than this.
So me saying at 1st meeting "Fair enough, I can see why, I would've done the same, was expecting it etc may have shorthened my consutlation period somewhat!
I'm not sure if there are 19 others being put at risk, i know of some others but at different locations/depts do they get included in the count of 20?
On the flip side If they wanted me to work longer than my notice period (possible) could they delay in closing out the consultation period?
AndyAudi said:
Bonefish Blues said:
As I stated in my post above, below 20 people, the test is one of reasonableness - highly unlikely that 1 day would be held to be reasonable in most circumstances, but 7 days could be etc Depends on how substantive the consultation is.
In this case, if the employer has said 21 days, then 21 it is. If not, and if it was just an indication, then it could be called to an end earlier than this.
Thanks read you're post after posting mine.In this case, if the employer has said 21 days, then 21 it is. If not, and if it was just an indication, then it could be called to an end earlier than this.
So me saying at 1st meeting "Fair enough, I can see why, I would've done the same, was expecting it etc may have shorthened my consutlation period somewhat!
I'm guessing so...
I'm not sure if there are 19 others being put at risk, i know of some others but at different locations/depts do they get included in the count of 20?
The definition is 20 "at an establishment" and that needs to be looked at in context - different depts in a single head office would likely be included in the total. Remote locations less likely, but still possible.
On the flip side If they wanted me to work longer than my notice period (possible) could they delay in closing out the consultation period?
Yes they could do this, although at some point they would be better advised to call a halt to proceedings, remove the risk of redundancy, and start again when ready, as it were.
gti tim said:
what i was concerned was that she hasnt formally been offered redundancy yet, but is still technically in notice period? Doesnt seem right to me that shes not been told she has no job but is eating into the notice period. 3 months notice plus 2 weeks redundancy at end of month would tide us over until new year for her to find something else. Obviously if notice started when consultation did, then it will only be 6 wks notice paid at end of sept.
The process followed here was that people were notified of the "consultation period" and one month later individual people were informed of their redundancy and their month's notice started from that date.So, your OH continues to work and be paid as an employee until the day she is told she is being made redundant. From that date, she gets 3 months notice (which may or may not be worked but will be paid) and 3 weeks redundancy payment (assuming she'll have worked there three years by then).
The important thing to remember is that the whole point of the consultation period is for management decide which roles are no longer required, whether alternatives exist (jobshare, voluntary redundancy etc) and which personnel are to be retained for the remaining roles. So, in theory the company will have the whole period to decide who's going and who's staying.
Edited by john_p on Thursday 10th September 15:47
gti tim said:
So effectively she is already in her notice period then
Sorry if this has already been covered, but I haven't spotted it.The consultation period starts when she is told her job is at risk.
The notice period starts when she is told her job is terminated. At that point she will be given formal written notice that her employment is ending, and an end date. From what you've said, I get the impression that she hasn't actually been given notice yet, just told that her job is at risk.
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