Applying for the RAF?

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Discussion

ben_h100

1,546 posts

179 months

Thursday 10th September 2009
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Currently in the RAF, as the guy before said if you want any info then give me a shout.

As far as fitness goes, unless you are RAF regt or a pti then the majority of physical exercise will be done in your own time. There are clubs for pretty much anything you can imagine sports-wise; if not you can set up your own. Plenty of opportunity for expeditions, personally been all over the uk taking part in outdoor activities, skydiving in the states and off to Europe trekking up some serious mountains this month. All your usual gym type stuff is free, top notch kit as well.

To the guy applying for WSOp; start researching it asap. I'm in the process of applying from the ranks, went for it when I was your age but didn't get it. don't let that put you off though, if you show the potential they will have you. Fill your spare time with worthwhile activities if you don't do so already, visit RAF stations etc.

If the question boils down to; 'would I recommend the RAF?', then I would have to answer a definite yes. There are downsides but the upsides outweigh them drastically.

mrdelmonti

1,420 posts

181 months

Thursday 10th September 2009
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ben_h100 said:
If the question boils down to; 'would I recommend the RAF?', then I would have to answer a definite yes. There are downsides but the upsides outweigh them drastically.
This might be a bit of a tough question but would you recommend the RAF above the other forces?

Dixie68

3,091 posts

187 months

Friday 11th September 2009
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mrdelmonti said:
ben_h100 said:
If the question boils down to; 'would I recommend the RAF?', then I would have to answer a definite yes. There are downsides but the upsides outweigh them drastically.
This might be a bit of a tough question but would you recommend the RAF above the other forces?
I might be able to help there; I was brought up in a Navy family, (my dad did 24 years), I served in the Army for 3 years and in the RAF for 15 years, so I know a lot about all of the services.
I would say that each service has it's own plus and minus points but in my experience it boils down to this:

Army
  • Your fitness levels must be very high and you will do a lot of phys all through your career.
  • Educational / professional qualifications opportunities are very good.
  • You will go to Afghanistan et al, and quite regularly at that.
  • Promotion opportunities within the ranks are there but are not as readily available as the other services.
Royal Navy
  • After your Basic Training your fitness levels will not be an issue unless you progress through the ranks (you will then be expected to set an example to others).
  • Educational / professional qualifications opportunities are very good.
  • You may go to Afghanistan et al, but probably not unless you are a clerk or medic.
  • Promotion opportunities within the ranks are very good if you keep your nose clean.
  • You may be away from home for months at a time, but with the current conflicts that also happens to the other services.
RAF
  • Your fitness levels should be roughly between those of the Army (high) and the Navy (low). You will be expected to regularly pass fitness tests, although these aren't exactly stringent - but you would still be amazed at how many teenagers fail them.
  • Educational / professional qualifications opportunities are very good.
  • You may go to Afghanistan et al, depending on what trade you are. Armourers, Ground Crew, Intelligence, Medics, Clerks etc will definitely go at some point. However you will not deploy as many times as the Army. I served in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan many times, but that was due to the unique aspects to my particular trade.
  • Promotion opportunities within the ranks are very good if you keep your nose clean.
All three services
  • Social life is fantastic and you will make friends for life.
  • You will have to put the service before your family life regularly.
  • Accommodation standards are abysmal - singlies and married personnel. On the flip side the accommodation charges are low - but then they would have to be as the standards really are that low.
Should you join up? I'd say yes; if nothing else you'd learn a lot about yourself and the chances of improving yourself are very good.
As for which service that's a difficult one. You should visit each service recruiting office and see what they can offer you. Personally the RAF was perfect for me, but it may not be for you. I've visited many, many countries on detachment, I've seen sights I would never have seen otherwise - good and bad. I've also lost friends; one of whom died in front of me.
You will always have a sense of pride in achieving something that not everyone is capable of.

HTH

mrdelmonti

1,420 posts

181 months

Friday 11th September 2009
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Nappa said:
Stuff
Dixie68 said:
Stuff
Thanks chaps, my mind is set on moving into a forces career, I'm just trying to decide which force would be better for me, so the info is much appreciated.

To the OP sorry for stealing your thread a little.

CypherP

4,387 posts

192 months

Monday 21st September 2009
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I'm currently due to go to OASC at Cranwell, and am trying to get as fit as possible. I've actually been sticking to the fitness plan that is provided when you go for your presentation. Its a six week plan that i'm currently repeating as I completed it first.

I'm far fitter than i was 2 months ago, and have been doing a bleep test practise once a week (currently i'm getting to 9.1 so fairly close to the pass rate - i'm still not as fit as i could be) but my press ups and sit ups are in the pass rate and i'm running 1.5 miles in 12:20 so i'm getting there.

There are lots of things I think I could improve heavily on, but i'm doing the best I can. My biggest downfall is not having enough time in the day for everything I want to do. I'm working full time 9-5:30, spending 90 minutes at the gym straight after work, 5 times a week and going home to study and go over my interview notes and take in as much info as possible. However, I can only do my best so i'm just going to give it my all at OASC and hope I manage to get through. I'm in a similar position as the OP. I'm 24 and should have done this when I originally requested the info at 18, straight after college. Instead i wanted to get work experience and earn some money (neither of which i regret), but having thought about it now, I would have been alot fitter and more mentally able back then.

hidetheelephants

24,357 posts

193 months

Tuesday 22nd September 2009
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As has been mentioned, applications can take a long time and a job is a good idea; have you tried the post office? I was a postie for 7 months and it was bloody good for my fitness; I lost a stone. The entry requirements are, as you would expect, low; if you can dress yourself, remember your name and can read addresses, you're in.

CypherP

4,387 posts

192 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2009
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hidetheelephants said:
The entry requirements are, as you would expect, low; if you can dress yourself, remember your name and can read addresses, you're in.
Not exactly true if you're going in as an Officer...

JJCW

2,449 posts

186 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2009
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CypherP said:
hidetheelephants said:
The entry requirements are, as you would expect, low; if you can dress yourself, remember your name and can read addresses, you're in.
Not exactly true if you're going in as an Officer...
He was talking about the requirements for being a postman.

They'll want reading comprehension in the RAF tongue out

RizzoTheRat

25,165 posts

192 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2009
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ben_h100 said:
To the guy applying for WSOp; start researching it asap. I'm in the process of applying from the ranks, went for it when I was your age but didn't get it. don't let that put you off though, if you show the potential they will have you. Fill your spare time with worthwhile activities if you don't do so already, visit RAF stations etc.
That's one of the great things about the military for anyone who wasn't that academically minded when they were at school. I'm not military but have spent a lot of time working with them including time working with recruiters. They're really trying to increase the amount of officers promoted up from the ranks, and there's generally a lot of training and advancement opportunities available for that that want it. For example one bloke I worked with joined the navy at 16 with one o-level and and trained as an electrician, he then decided he was interested in helicopters and by the Falklands he was a winchman on sea-kings, by Bosnia he was a Lynx pilot and he retired from the navy at 55 as a Lieutenant Commander. I've also met several Lieutenant Colonel's who've come up from the ranks in similar a way too.

CypherP

4,387 posts

192 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2009
quotequote all
JJCW said:
CypherP said:
hidetheelephants said:
The entry requirements are, as you would expect, low; if you can dress yourself, remember your name and can read addresses, you're in.
Not exactly true if you're going in as an Officer...
He was talking about the requirements for being a postman.

They'll want reading comprehension in the RAF tongue out
I did wonder... Thanks for informing me. I was clearly reading through a little too quickly. banghead

mrdelmonti

1,420 posts

181 months

Thursday 24th September 2009
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Right chaps, after a lot of thought I have decided the RAF seems to be force for me, I'm looking at careers in the logistics side of things, more specifically what the RAF call "Supplier". Has anyone here had any experience of the logistics side of things? If so, how do you find it? Is it still highly valued back in civvy life?

I will be popping over to the local AFCO when I get a chance but I'd like to do as much research as I can beforehand and possibly get a more balanced viewpoint.

ben_h100

1,546 posts

179 months

Sunday 4th October 2009
quotequote all
As above; I would NOT recommend joining as a supplier.

One reason is the job as mentioned above, the other is the pay, (although not the main reason for joining, at the end of the day that is why we all work).

You may or may not be aware that within the ground trades there are two pay 'bands', lower and higher. Supply, being a non-technical trade, falls into the lower pay band. What this means is that a year or two down the line, you could be earning £300-400 pounds less per month than the guys wh. You went through basic training with.

Go for a technical trade, end result is more qualifications, probably more satisfying work and a bit more cash in your pocket at the end of the month.


snotrag

14,459 posts

211 months

Monday 28th June 2010
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Hi guys, thought I'd resurrect this rather than start a new thread, seeing as theres a fair bit of useful stuff here.

I'm 24, Been to University, been working for a couple of years, and starting to think the the forces/RAF is something that I actually could really excel in, and is suited to me, my personality, the way I work etc. Had a chat with my local AFCO on the phone earlier, going to go see them as soon as I can sneak out of work (Why are they only open 9-5! hehe).

I studied engineering design, always done best at technology/design etc throughout school, and have worked as a design engineer for a few years.

Unfortunately I dont hold a degree but rather a DipHe (same as a HND), so I believe this prevents me joining as an Officer - but that seems to be oversubscribed.

I am looking to join probably on the technical side of things - for now, particularly the roles such as General Tech - Workshops, or Mechanical.

(I am open to hearing what they suggest aswell when I visit the AFCO, although I understand there may be a tendency to push me towards things which are under-subscribed.)

Does anyone do these roles?

I am your typical petrolhead/technical/engineering/hands on type personality, I like fixing things, making things work, understanding how and why, problem solving, etc etc, I've got some decent experience of doing 'technical' type jobs, the right qualifications (A levels in Physics, Design&Tech, Dip He in Engineering design etc etc) and I'm relatively confident that I pass any 'are you a complete moron' type tests by being (I think!) a generally decent guy, and I've not really any history of trouble with the law, or bad health etc. My only problem in that respect is I do wear glasses/contacts, but only weak ones and I understand that the rules for various aspects of the RAF are actually not that tight regarding this. Never be a pilot though I suspect!

I am also massively frustrated working in the environment that I do (small, private ltd company). I'm old enough to know myself and my personality (and my faults!) and as far as I can tell the 'system' and the way that the forces work would allow me to really excel at something.

I'd be interested to hear any more advice, general or specific, and also any thoughts on what actual roles are available (and in particular, what roles they might be more keen to get people signed up for).

Also, anything that is likely to trip me up, I've been reading that e-goat forum a bit, but its always good to hear from others, so I can walk in and meet somebody at the AFCO and really do my best to impress them.

Edited by snotrag on Monday 28th June 13:21


Edited by snotrag on Monday 28th June 13:24

Dixie68

3,091 posts

187 months

Monday 28th June 2010
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@Snotrag:

Ok, I'll give this a bash. I served 15 years in the RAF and was in the Army before that, so bear in mind that when I joined the RAF it was almost 20 years ago and the Army 5 years before that, (I've been out for about 4 years now but still have plenty of friends that are still serving).

AFCO:
  • Learn as much as you can about the current role of the RAF/other service you want to join.
  • Have at least a rough idea about what role you want to do, even if it's just on-aircraft or off-aircraft - off-aircraft roles include Air Traffic Control, Ground Radio, Motor Transport, Ground Equipment etc; on-aircraft includes Aircrew, Avionics, Airframes, Propulsion etc, (the last three of those are what are classed as aircraft ground-crew).
  • Dress smartly whenever you visit an AFCO. There's no need to wear a suit at this stage but jeans and t-shirt are probably a no-no. For your final interview a suit would be good, but shirt and tie will do. At all times know what to do with your hands - don't fidget, don't put them in your pockets. A friend of mine used to work in the AFCO in Lincoln and he said that he first of all looked at the applicant's state of dress, then his/her bearing; someone in a £3,000 suit but who was slouching/fidgetting would not make it.
  • Give the impression that you've been thinking of joining for a while now and have taken steps to make yourself better prepared - improving fitness, getting real-world work experience, asking serving/ex military personnel questions etc.
  • Don't be afraid to ask questions.
Basic Training:
  • 100% effort, 100% of the time. Once you finish your training you will enter the 'real-world' and can relax, but whilst in training you must put the effort in.
  • You are always wrong, they are always right. Even if they aren't.
  • Team work is key. If you are a racing gazelle in the fitness stages help out the others that aren't - it will be noticed. As will it if you are just out for number one.
  • Other than when it would affect team work, be the 'grey man' - you don't want to stand out.
Trade Training:
  • Start to relax, but not too much.
  • Now is the time to start shining and stop being the 'grey man' - if you're good at the trade and pick it up quickly make sure you're noticed.
  • Team work is still important. Helping others with the trade skills you are better at will also be noticed.
The Real RAF:
  • Enjoy yourself.
  • Never miss the opportunity for further training/education.
Finally, I'm not sure why you think you can't be an officer. I'd say that you would make Engineering Officer but then I'm not sure about the qualifications required nowadays. Ask at the AFCO, they can only say no. Even if you join as an 'other rank' you should get the opportunity to go for a commission at a later stage if you are good enough - I was offered it after 9 years in the RAF, after doing well at an engineering course, (I declined as I'm not the officer type, but a friend of mine who was offered it later took them up on it and is doing very well - he didn't have a degree).

If you have any specific questions I'll attempt to answer them thumbup


Riggernut

1,681 posts

231 months

Monday 28th June 2010
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Very good post by Dixie

Few questions though. Its quite often but not always difficult to Join the forces the older you get. You've formed your own opinions, had a bit of life experience, and generally a bit more assertive. If your educated to degree level and have good hands on experience, personally I think you'll be bored within a couple of years in a ground eng trade.

It can work one of two ways, you'll be head and shoulder above your peers and get promoted quickly if you have the leadership qualities or you'll question your NCO's ability to do the job and probably get taken round the back of the hanger;), (only joking, that never happened).

How adaptable are you? I've probably spent 5 out of the last 9 months out of area, some good, some not so good places. Is there the other half/Mrs to consider? The Airforce is getting smaller, the ability to get the choice posting to an area of your liking is fast disappearing in some trades. If you like your home comforts and get posted anywhere south of RAF Wittering, houses get expensive, especially on Forces pay. There is of course Forces accommodation and single living accommodation (If you need more details on this PM me).

Hope I'm not putting you off, It can be a fantastic and rewarding opportunity. If you think you are a natural leader, confident in your abilities to lead a team and would make a good manager, then apply for officer. If you think you need a bit of time to develop these attributes then go for a trade and work you way up.

In to motorsport?.... http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafmotorsports/

Aircrew might be another option. Air loadmaster, Winchman, Weapon Systems OP.

Any other Q's just ask

snotrag

14,459 posts

211 months

Monday 28th June 2010
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Two brilliant posts there guys, many thanks.

As for joining as an Office - I guess I'll just have to ask when I see them, hopefully tomorrow if I can sneak out of work.
Been speaking to a Colleague/friend at work who is ex-forces - he says he can see how I'm frustrated doing a Vanilla job, living a Vanilla life, and that I would really enjoy it - he would still be serving if it wasnt for an injury he got on duty.

Riggernut said:
How adaptable are you? I've probably spent 5 out of the last 9 months out of area, some good, some not so good places. Is there the other half/Mrs to consider? The Airforce is getting smaller, the ability to get the choice posting to an area of your liking is fast disappearing in some trades. If you like your home comforts and get posted anywhere south of RAF Wittering, houses get expensive, especially on Forces pay. There is of course Forces accommodation and single living accommodation (If you need more details on this PM me).
As for ties - I'm well aware that thngs change as you get older and have a family etc, but right now given the chance I'd go where-ever I was told, and I value some things a lot more than just having a big TV and cream carpets. Plenty of time for that.

Adaptable? I guess so - If pushed I'd say that one of my main qualities is abiltiy to learn, and having a thirst for knowledge. I want to understand things, and become good at them.

One of the things that a number of people have said is - 'why not?' I'm 24 now, however bad it might be to feel regret at joining up in a few years, its nothing like as as bad as the regret I'll feel in 5 years time when I'm sat at the same desk doing the same boring 9-5, wishing I'd at least tried.

Riggernut said:
If you think you are a natural leader, confident in your abilities to lead a team and would make a good manager, then apply for officer. If you think you need a bit of time to develop these attributes then go for a trade and work you way up.
I dont think I'm particularly the dominant, loud, high 'D' type leader, however I am good at teaching and guiding people, and 'gently' leading them as opposed to forcefully pushing. I like to be able to pass on skills and experiences. Again, I will ask them about this, and its also useful to be just about old enough nowadays to appreciate just who I am as a person so I can play off my best qualities.

Riggernut said:
Very much so, been reading up on that and also the cycling team, as I have many memories of getting absolutely beasted by those guys from the Forces teams when I've been racing my Mountain bike! The whole thing about all the opportunities to do amazing things appeals massively, travel, sports, adventure, etc.

The friend at work has told me about some of the thing he was lucky enough to do in the army, his advice is just to stick your hand up for everything.

As for the actual roles - I've been doing some scribbles and I seem to be focusing on either the Engineering/Technical side of things, or as you suggest, Aircrew. I'm sat writing some notes and questions now to take with me.

Riggernut I'll pm you in a second, many thanks!

Dixie68

3,091 posts

187 months

Monday 28th June 2010
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Good stuff from Riggernut there, a candidate for the big hammer course if ever I saw one wink (Sorry, couldn't resist it - ex-Fairy).

I forgot to say, Snotrag, I was 23 when I joined the RAF - I actually had my 24th birthday when I was in basic training at RAF Swinderby, (yes it was THAT long ago), so don't sweat the age. In fact a lad on my intake was 29.

Good luck.

Alexdaredevilz

5,697 posts

179 months

Tuesday 29th June 2010
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I was rejected from the RAF the second they found out I had no spleen
Were very rude about it aswell!


snotrag

14,459 posts

211 months

Wednesday 30th June 2010
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Thanks everyone.

I went down to the AFCO yesterday armed with a smile and a list of questions, it was really useful - guy on the desk was really helpful and usefully it seemed that his 'background' and preferences were of a similar nature to me - I.E. interested in the mechanical, nut+bolts side of things, and all the various technologies etc.


We talked about my qualifications - I am sending them a copy of my certificates so there people can decide whether or not it would allow me to join as Engineer Officer. We did talk about what has been touched on there - that joining as an Engineer officer (which I think is one of the most over - subscribed roles!?) means there will be a lot less hands on, and a lot more admin/dull stuff, however he was very keenly hinting that the standards of living/pay etc were vastly superior if you join at Officer level. His advice was to go for the moon as it were and try it, you can always apply again if you dont get in.

We talked about the different 'groups' of roles and narrowed it down to either Aircrew, where I would wish to join as a Weapons Systems Officer (got the qualifications needed, might be too old though?), and Engineering/Technical, where I am within age to become an Engineer officer, but may or may not have the right qualifications, as is to be determined.

For each of those roles there is the 2nd choice of doing either at the lower level, either Weapons systems or General technician on the airframes. I was advised away from the other technician roles, avionics/electronics as being dull (unplugging and plugging in modules) and everything else as being like a posh car mechanic.




Finally - one more thing that I had forgotten to ask was about the recruitment age rules - how do the max age rules apply - at the time of application? time of interview? When you get an offer, or when the training starts?

Its not an issue for most, but there is one particular role for which I would be too old for from September...

I've signed up to e-goat aswell, great forum.

snotrag

14,459 posts

211 months

Wednesday 30th June 2010
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One more thing - I'm sure i've seen it mentioned but - Is it possible to pay a visit to any of the bases, to meet and talk to the people doing the roles I'm interested in? Is it a done thing? I would hope that it would show willing and genuine interest on my part, (brownie points at interview stage) and I'd also get the 'true' picture on the roles from those doing it.

Edited by snotrag on Wednesday 30th June 13:25