agency % cut from a contract role?

[Original Poster]

JontyR said:

Original Poster said:

JontyR said:

no1special said:

zippy3x said:

no1special said:

blindswelledrat said:

itsnotarace said:

blindswelledrat said:

Or alternatively, don't be a pikey.

Maybe if recruitment agencies took a fairer percentage for doing sweet FA....

Nothing unfair about agency percentages, in exactly the same way there's nothing unfair about shop margins.
You have an alternative- get off your arse and find your own job.
THe agency offer you a job at a given rate- it is either acceptable or it isn't. THat simple. WHat they make from it is nothing whatsoever to do with you becuase it is the client who pays thier bill not you.

Granted, there are a lot of cowboys out there who give decent agencies a bad name. But the decent ones do earn their percentages, and it p1sses me off when people begrudge them this.
Some people just have a bee in their bonnet about people earning money 'off them'.
As BSR says, if you dont like it, get off your own arse and find a job.

Please don't make the mistake of believing that just because you provide a neccessary service, that you're value for money.

I may need a tyre changed, and may not want to / possess the skills to change the tyre. The does not give the tyre fitter the right to charge me £100 to do it.

If you agents are so "worth it" then why do you hide your margins from both client and contractor?

Maybe you didnt read my post properly, so I will type it again for you;

Granted, there are a lot of cowboys out there who give decent agencies a bad name.

I have always been up front with fees when asked.

Maybe you are different. But the scum I have dealt with over the last 20 years has made me very cynical!

They phone you up pretending to be your friend, but don't even get your personal details correct!
They claim they put in a bucket load of effort, and yes maybe they read a few CV's at the start, but after 3 years of being in the same contract...what the hell do they offer? And all for approx £100 per day??

I was the same as one of the guys above...I sorted my own renewals, yet they still took the same cut! One agency, my last one, claimed there was little money in the pot...yet chatting to the client found they were taking 35%!!!! It was only when I threatened to walk, they reviewed their margin!
Most agents I have met, and it was a general concensus....they wouldn't be pi$$ed on if found on fire in the street!

Exactly the same can be said for contractors that feel the need to ask questions that have no relevance to them.

Agency agrees cost with client

Agency agrees cost with candidate

Client is obviously happy to pay said rate,

Candidate is obviously happy to accept said rate,

Agency is happy to pick up the margin between the two.

Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

it isn't as if the agency has pushed the client into agreeing a rate they are unhappy with, that is impossible.

I understand business is business.....but also being honest is part of the deal. There should be some transparency involved. Agencies are there to sort the weeds but then thats pretty much it, other than passing money from peter to paul.

My gripe is that I was told there was very little budget. I was then told by the client that that wasn't the case! Don't be so nieve as to think contractor and client don't talk! So then I go back and I'm lied to...so understandably I was a little miffed. None of the agents I have met have been very nice! The majority of the ones I dealt with in the 90's were typical of an 80's yuppy stuffed up to the eyeballs with self importance and cocaine! And the 00's weren't much better...may have dropped the coke.....but the attitude still stank! Not one person I have met has had a nice thing to say about their agents, but there was no point in telling them this as in their world they were king!

The biggest problem I saw was that the loyalty shifted from the agent looking after the best interest of the candidate to the client. Once upon a time, your agent treasured you as their income...whereas now the contractor is just a pawn and the real money comes from the client. When a contract ended, your agent found you a new one...not the case anymore, its back into the pool again and shift to another agency.

I totally agree, transparency should be there if asked and the recruiter should not say there is no room for movement on the rate, I had a temp earlier in the week ask if there was any movement with a justified reason why he should get it, guess what he got it...Out of my margin.

I can see why some recruiters will be greedy though,

Some recruiters will take the assumption that candidates will accept they cannot get a higher rate and still want to proceed with the role, obviously this is not always the case but it's a case of the recruiter taking a risk.

[AJS-]

If you think recruitment agents are bad at 20 or even 30 percent, try a permanent role. One IT "consultancy" I knew of hired permanent IT staff at between 25-45K depending on level and typically billed clients 2,000 pounds a DAY to have their staff on site. More for senior guys.

[andyroo]

I think we can agree that any job ending in, '-agent' is the work of the devil

[JontyR]

andyroo said:

I think we can agree that any job ending in, '-agent' is the work of the devil

lol!!

[AJS-]

It will always seem that way, but where when and how you sell something is a huge component of it's final value. Would you rather have 80% of a great wage, or 100% of a crap one?

[blindswelledrat]

andyroo said:

I think we can agree that any job ending in, '-agent' is the work of the devil

Agreed. Mr Tabani my local newsagent is a proper proper .
I bought a quarter of cough candy from him the other day and I swear it was out of date.
Robbing bd

[Romanymagic]

blindswelledrat said:

andyroo said:

I think we can agree that any job ending in, '-agent' is the work of the devil

Agreed. Mr Tabani my local newsagent is a proper proper .
I bought a quarter of cough candy from him the other day and I swear it was out of date.
Robbing bd

Them there secret agents can't be trusted either!

[shirt]

a couple of off topic questions, but it seems like a good place to ask.

1) car insurance - declare self employed for ltd., what about if using an umbrella?

2) do I need to insure my car for business use or will sdp suffice as i will only be commuting to a single site?

3) do I need any kind of indemnity/liability insurance? its an engineering role and I imagine all work will be signed off by a permie.

4) can I claim commuting miles at 40ppm?

5) does any of this change if using an umbrella or ltd. co.?

tia.

Edited by shirt on Monday 21st June 05:24

[Dupont666]

shirt said:

a couple of off topic questions, but it seems like a good place to ask.

1) car insurance - declare self employed for ltd., what about if using an umbrella?

2) do I need to insure my car for business use or will sdp suffice as i will only be commuting to a single site?

3) do I need any kind of indemnity/liability insurance? its an engineering role and I imagine all work will be signed off by a permie.

4) can I claim commuting miles at 40ppm?

5) does any of this change if using an umbrella or ltd. co.?

tia.

Edited by shirt on Monday 21st June 05:24

They are accounting questions... get hold of Eric (boating planes, etc) or go to finance section for a quicker answer.

[spikeyhead]

shirt said:

a couple of off topic questions, but it seems like a good place to ask.

1) car insurance - declare self employed for ltd., what about if using an umbrella?

2) do I need to insure my car for business use or will sdp suffice as i will only be commuting to a single site?

3) do I need any kind of indemnity/liability insurance? its an engineering role and I imagine all work will be signed off by a permie.

4) can I claim commuting miles at 40ppm?

5) does any of this change if using an umbrella or ltd. co.?

tia.

1) You're are not self amployed if you are the director of the company.

2) Considering that business use costs pennies to add, I'd jsut do it. It may save a lot of grief in the future for something that will cost less than 20 quid.

3) You really need to understand that if you're going to enjoy the tax benefits of being a contractor you have to behave as though you're runnign a business, so you'll need indemnity insurance comensurate with your business activities.

4) yes, providing that they are wholly and exclusively for business purposes.

5) The above are for Ltd, I have no idea about umbrellas

[shirt]

cheers. last qn - would being a sole trader rather than a ltd. be advantageous at all?

I've a feeling I'm going to have a busy, but educational, week.

[blindswelledrat]

Assuming you are going to withdraw every penny from the company as renumeration, then I can't see any advantage to being a sole trader over a Ltd company.

If these capital gains tax rises end up extending to dividend payments in the long term, the answer might be different, but in the short term Ltd is better.

[spikeyhead]

blindswelledrat said:

Assuming you are going to withdraw every penny from the company as renumeration, then I can't see any advantage to being a sole trader over a Ltd company.

If these capital gains tax rises end up extending to dividend payments in the long term, the answer might be different, but in the short term Ltd is better.

It's also the case that most large customers won't deal with a sole trader, in the event of a tax dispute where the contractor is deemed to be a temporary employee, the client is responsible for the tax owed rather than the contractor. With a Ltd company, it is the contractor that is liable.

[JontyR]

shirt said:

cheers. last qn - would being a sole trader rather than a ltd. be advantageous at all?

I've a feeling I'm going to have a busy, but educational, week.

As far as I'm aware you cant be Well not in IT anyway.

It is a pain, as they tell you have to be a Ltd Company...then don't allow you the privilege's a Ltd company are allowed. Would save you a fortune as there would be no need for Company NI etc.

[Dupont666]

JontyR said:

shirt said:

cheers. last qn - would being a sole trader rather than a ltd. be advantageous at all?

I've a feeling I'm going to have a busy, but educational, week.

As far as I'm aware you cant be Well not in IT anyway.

It is a pain, as they tell you have to be a Ltd Company...then don't allow you the privilege's a Ltd company are allowed. Would save you a fortune as there would be no need for Company NI etc.

A little more info:

http://www.ir35calc.co.uk/contractor_sole_trader.a...

[shirt]

^^thanks. I only asked as a friend suggested I look into it as his wife is a sole trader (design consultancy).

have booked appointments with the bank and an accountant so with a bit of reading and relevant advice I should be set by the end of the week.