Apprentaces liable?
Discussion
Heyup lads,
Im 18, have a apprenticeship in joinery and ive been doing it for 3 years now.
Last Tuesday i was on site operating an elevated platform (12m cherry picker) which i don't have a ticket/license the only training i had was my boss telling me the controls in the space of 10minutes, later that day my boss left me with the machine so i was on my own, i drove it up a small bump attempted to turn and the thing fell on its side! So a few hours later the recovery truck came and was taken back to the rental firm for inspection. No damage was found just a £30 charge for topping the leaked oil and diesel also the recovery truck was a private firm so they charged £150.
Nothing else was said until today (Friday aka payday) my employer turned to me and told me i was getting £180 docked from my wages for the above, i turned and said isnt that what liability insurance is for he said no so i walked away.
Is this legal i feel like ive been raped!
I don't think im allowed in my apprenticeship rights to operate machinery like that i wasn't being supervised at the time and i wasn't given adequate training.
Anyone know what to make of this, legal advice? ive basically worked a week for half my normal wage im well gutted
Thanks alot lads.
Im 18, have a apprenticeship in joinery and ive been doing it for 3 years now.
Last Tuesday i was on site operating an elevated platform (12m cherry picker) which i don't have a ticket/license the only training i had was my boss telling me the controls in the space of 10minutes, later that day my boss left me with the machine so i was on my own, i drove it up a small bump attempted to turn and the thing fell on its side! So a few hours later the recovery truck came and was taken back to the rental firm for inspection. No damage was found just a £30 charge for topping the leaked oil and diesel also the recovery truck was a private firm so they charged £150.
Nothing else was said until today (Friday aka payday) my employer turned to me and told me i was getting £180 docked from my wages for the above, i turned and said isnt that what liability insurance is for he said no so i walked away.
Is this legal i feel like ive been raped!
I don't think im allowed in my apprenticeship rights to operate machinery like that i wasn't being supervised at the time and i wasn't given adequate training.
Anyone know what to make of this, legal advice? ive basically worked a week for half my normal wage im well gutted
Thanks alot lads.
HSE would have your boss over a barrel with that one. It's half a day to a days training to operate a cherry picker. It's potentially a reportable incident to the HSE as you could have been injured or the picker could have fallen on someone. It is not fair to expect employees to operate equipment if they have not been trained to use it properly and dock their wages because they have not been trained.
Quite hard to turn over a cherry picker, I'd guess it was a little bigger than a "small bump"?
Have a Google for MEWPS to see where your boss has got it totally wrong, you could easily have been injured or injured someone else and he would have been liable.
If the story is exactly as you say he has no right to dock you money however if the apprenticeship doesn't have long to go it might be best just to swallow it. Just stand up for yourself in future and don't use equipment you haven't been trained to use.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/mewps.htm
Have a Google for MEWPS to see where your boss has got it totally wrong, you could easily have been injured or injured someone else and he would have been liable.
If the story is exactly as you say he has no right to dock you money however if the apprenticeship doesn't have long to go it might be best just to swallow it. Just stand up for yourself in future and don't use equipment you haven't been trained to use.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/mewps.htm
unlawful deduction of wages.
employee rights act 1996 said:
Section 13 of ERA 1996 prohibits deductions from a worker’s wages unless:
* The deduction is required or authorised by statute or a provision in the worker’s contract; or
* The worker has given their prior written consent to the deduction.
* The deduction is required or authorised by statute or a provision in the worker’s contract; or
* The worker has given their prior written consent to the deduction.
Robbors said:
later that day my boss left me with the machine so i was on my own, i drove it up a small bump attempted to turn and the thing fell on its side!
Did he leave you intending that you should operate the machine, or just leave you and the machine together - as it were? Also, was there any element of 'testing the machine's off-road ability' in mounting the bump? If there was no element of larking about then it sounds like you've been hard done by and I sympathise - but if there was, I can imagine that he might be a little ticked off about it! (Irrespective of whether he has any right to dock your wages, of course).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
In the real world if he had injured or killed himself or someone else by toppling the cherry picker there would be hell to pay. HSE prosecutions and fines, legal costs can all add up. I very much doubt that the HSE & the courts would decide 10 minutes training was sufficient. anonymous said:
[redacted]
I bet you didn't need driving lessons, you just got on with it like the rest of 'em. His boss was reckless and in the real world the OP would have been called a pussy if he refused to not 'have a bash'. It's attitudes like yours that have caused this problem.anonymous said:
[redacted]
It has the potential to kill someone or at the very least cause a lot of damage to it or whatever it falls on and to let a random 18 year old loose on it with no similar experience is reckless. A fact of life is that everyone is different. What you may naturally see as stupid, someone else may not see it. You may well have common sense but to assume everyone else does is asking for trouble.There is no need to go over the top on HSE but his boss should have at least watched him use it before leaving him alone.
I'm with Tonks on this one. Boss sounds like a bit of a maverick, but what do you think he thought when he saw what a mess you'd made of it? Kid going too fast, being a t
t. Docks wage & that's the end of it.
To be honest, be thankful you weren't hurt and you can laugh about it in a few years. If you *REALL* need the money, for like food/rent, then maybe ask to do a few more hours overtime to get it back, otherwise I'd have a few less beers for a month and put it down to a learning experience.
At the end of the day, you ballsed up, don't have a big barney with the gaffer over it. If you are unsure about stuff ask/take it slow - but hindsight is a wonderful thing...
Stu
t. Docks wage & that's the end of it.To be honest, be thankful you weren't hurt and you can laugh about it in a few years. If you *REALL* need the money, for like food/rent, then maybe ask to do a few more hours overtime to get it back, otherwise I'd have a few less beers for a month and put it down to a learning experience.
At the end of the day, you ballsed up, don't have a big barney with the gaffer over it. If you are unsure about stuff ask/take it slow - but hindsight is a wonderful thing...
Stu
Eggman said:
Robbors said:
later that day my boss left me with the machine so i was on my own, i drove it up a small bump attempted to turn and the thing fell on its side!
Did he leave you intending that you should operate the machine, or just leave you and the machine together - as it were? Also, was there any element of 'testing the machine's off-road ability' in mounting the bump? If there was no element of larking about then it sounds like you've been hard done by and I sympathise - but if there was, I can imagine that he might be a little ticked off about it! (Irrespective of whether he has any right to dock your wages, of course).
Were you driving up the small bump for work purposes?
As for "how hard can it be to operate a cherry picker" well hard enough that he tipped it.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
doesn't matter PUWER applies and to be honest it;s a piece of kit which could cause serious injury or damage ... also potentially some of the working at heights stuff there are times when a 'pragmatic' approach can be taken to training but unfortunately working at heights is not one of them ...
So when does an apprentice become a responsible, capable adult, ever ? lets` look at the facts
This guy was considered responsible enough by his employer to be left on his own , to carry out various tasks. Apart from the Cherry picker, I assume he also has his own tools and is capable of using them in the workplace, as instructed his employer. So the employer thinks he is sensible enough to be left alone, Wrong it seems.
£360 doesn`t sound like apprentice wages to me. I`d say he is lucky to still have a job. With all this `poor little employee` talk,the instant something happens, it`s a `blame the employer `. That alone shows he is irresponsible.
So
A/ he needs sacking, or
B/ he should have a cut in wages.
This guy was considered responsible enough by his employer to be left on his own , to carry out various tasks. Apart from the Cherry picker, I assume he also has his own tools and is capable of using them in the workplace, as instructed his employer. So the employer thinks he is sensible enough to be left alone, Wrong it seems.
£360 doesn`t sound like apprentice wages to me. I`d say he is lucky to still have a job. With all this `poor little employee` talk,the instant something happens, it`s a `blame the employer `. That alone shows he is irresponsible.
So
A/ he needs sacking, or
B/ he should have a cut in wages.
Eric Mc said:
Sainsbury's got done for a huge fine a couple of years ago for failing to train a fork-lift truck driver adequately. The driver was killed.
Was that the one at Basingstoke? I think it was 97ish when that happened, but I do remember our fork lift drivers at the time being retrained (I worked at a different JS depotGassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff