Work & Salary Issues - Advice needed
Discussion
I am looking for a bit of genuine advice please as I am a little lost at the minute. I will start from the top;
I'm 21 and have been in my current job for just over 2 years now. I started with 0 experience in this field. I am a calibration technician/engineer in the Fiscal metering field in the Oil & gas industry. I calibrate pipe provers and custodial transfer meters using a compact prover.
Anyway, I started as a techncian and learned the job, procedures etc etc. Since May I have been doing the job myself as an Engineer. I am being charged out to clients at engineers rates and I am doing the job just as well, if not better, than the other engineer in the company. I have done about 4 or 5 jobs as an engineer now and each and every one of them have gone without hiccup.
Now here is the problem, my employers are still only paying me a techncians salary, yet they have acknowledged that I am now trained up to engineer level and I have been signed off as so. I am doing an engineers job and being charged out to clients as an engineer but I am making 50% less than the other engineer in the company. I should also add. He has been there about 3 years and also started with 0 experience in this field yet his starting salary was 130% more than mine and he is still earning 50% more than me for doing the same job. He is 57.
When I was signed off as an engineer I was given a 2k wage increase. From £18k to £20k. I was paid £18k a year as a technician which basically meant I was always working with an engineer. Now I am travelling the world alone, doing the jobs myself and also training up a new guy. They rewarded this with a measly 2k increase!
I kicked up fuss and was told that I needed to prove myself. I thought I had already done this otherwise I wouldn't have been signed off as a capable engineers. Anyway, I just got on with it and as said, have since done 5-6 jobs with no issues. I have actually gained the company some work from new clients in the middle-east.
I am looking for a 50% salary increase which I believe is what I should be getting paid. Am I being unreasonable and asking for too much too soon? Are my employers trying to take advantage and use my age against me? Whats the best way to approach it, as at the moment I am really not happy with doing the work I am doing for such a crap salary.
Any advice would be greatfully appreciated.
Thanks.
I'm 21 and have been in my current job for just over 2 years now. I started with 0 experience in this field. I am a calibration technician/engineer in the Fiscal metering field in the Oil & gas industry. I calibrate pipe provers and custodial transfer meters using a compact prover.
Anyway, I started as a techncian and learned the job, procedures etc etc. Since May I have been doing the job myself as an Engineer. I am being charged out to clients at engineers rates and I am doing the job just as well, if not better, than the other engineer in the company. I have done about 4 or 5 jobs as an engineer now and each and every one of them have gone without hiccup.
Now here is the problem, my employers are still only paying me a techncians salary, yet they have acknowledged that I am now trained up to engineer level and I have been signed off as so. I am doing an engineers job and being charged out to clients as an engineer but I am making 50% less than the other engineer in the company. I should also add. He has been there about 3 years and also started with 0 experience in this field yet his starting salary was 130% more than mine and he is still earning 50% more than me for doing the same job. He is 57.
When I was signed off as an engineer I was given a 2k wage increase. From £18k to £20k. I was paid £18k a year as a technician which basically meant I was always working with an engineer. Now I am travelling the world alone, doing the jobs myself and also training up a new guy. They rewarded this with a measly 2k increase!
I kicked up fuss and was told that I needed to prove myself. I thought I had already done this otherwise I wouldn't have been signed off as a capable engineers. Anyway, I just got on with it and as said, have since done 5-6 jobs with no issues. I have actually gained the company some work from new clients in the middle-east.
I am looking for a 50% salary increase which I believe is what I should be getting paid. Am I being unreasonable and asking for too much too soon? Are my employers trying to take advantage and use my age against me? Whats the best way to approach it, as at the moment I am really not happy with doing the work I am doing for such a crap salary.
Any advice would be greatfully appreciated.
Thanks.
I'd say a bit soon. 5/6 jobs isn't a record of success, its a blip at the moment. I'd say six months from May to book in the serious chat. Be wary of direct comparison to the other engineer - there may be other factors than his pipe proving ability.
Lastly, when you go into the meetings, be aware that you are, in effect, giving your employer an ultimatum. Be prepared to be working elsewhere after it.
Lastly, when you go into the meetings, be aware that you are, in effect, giving your employer an ultimatum. Be prepared to be working elsewhere after it.
Pothole said:
Easty-5 said:
Pothole said:
Easty-5 said:
I'm 21
He is 57.
He is 57.
Good luck with your payrise conversation.
He had absolutely no experience what so ever in this field, exactly the same as myself.
Easty-5 said:
Afraid not. He has been there a year longer than me. Maybe done 5-6 jobs in total more than myself. I have done approx 30-40 jobs in my time with this company. The 5 or 6 I refer to are the jobs where I have been lead engineer.
He had absolutely no experience what so ever in this field, exactly the same as myself.
Still, he's obviously better at negotiation than you He had absolutely no experience what so ever in this field, exactly the same as myself.
Easty-5 said:
Pothole said:
Easty-5 said:
Pothole said:
Easty-5 said:
I'm 21
He is 57.
He is 57.
Good luck with your payrise conversation.
He had absolutely no experience what so ever in this field, exactly the same as myself.
Pothole said:
Easty-5 said:
Pothole said:
Easty-5 said:
Pothole said:
Easty-5 said:
I'm 21
He is 57.
He is 57.
Good luck with your payrise conversation.
He had absolutely no experience what so ever in this field, exactly the same as myself.
What I would research is find out the going rate for you position & experience in the rest of the industry - don't go into specific numbers with the boss but if the timings right you can let them know you know that you are underpaid for your position and experience regardless of age. This is why I got an increase
ETA it was a good fun on the aberdeen PH run - sorry my TT held you up in a straight line!
Edited by PKLD on Monday 20th September 23:18
PKLD said:
I'm in a totally different industry but i'm guessing most if not all follow the same principle. You do a job you get £x amount. You stay a while then maybe get a couple extra grand added. You then apply for the next job where you ask for a couple more than the last salary. You stay a while and then you get a couple extra grand added. You then apply.... after 36 years doing this you can easily double a basic wage for the doing the same job as the 21 year old youngster that started alongside you! Even if he doesn't have experience he will have asked/expected a certain salary level that he has been used to.
What I would research is find out the going rate for you position & experience in the rest of the industry - don't go into specific numbers with the boss but if the timings right you can let them know you know that you are underpaid for your position and experience regardless of age. This is why I got an increase
ETA it was a good fun on the aberdeen PH run - sorry my TT held you up in a straight line!
I'm guessing this is probably the case. The fact he is the bosses mate and drinking buddy may also help matters for him. I am being paid about 10K a year less than industry standard. I will hold fire just now and see what happens come appraisal time at the end of the year.What I would research is find out the going rate for you position & experience in the rest of the industry - don't go into specific numbers with the boss but if the timings right you can let them know you know that you are underpaid for your position and experience regardless of age. This is why I got an increase
ETA it was a good fun on the aberdeen PH run - sorry my TT held you up in a straight line!
Yea it was great fun. Your TT surprised me a lot. It's no slouch huh!? Gutted we didn't stay for the Cairn O mount leg of the trip but we (me and my brother with the evo) had some alcohol consumption to get on with.
I remember a similar situation at a company I worked for. somebody in the quality dept has worked in quality for years was trained to use a cmm measuring machine for when the quality engineer was away. Eventually the engineer was spend alot of time on other thing as this qc guy was doing all the measuring.
He asked for the same pay as the engineer(time served apprentice I might add) the manager hit the nail on the head sqarely saying
"you are not an engineer, if the machine breaks you have to stop, an engineer could still measure the parts manually using micrometers, verniers and brain power,But would probably be able to repair the equipment".
He sulked for weeks.
He asked for the same pay as the engineer(time served apprentice I might add) the manager hit the nail on the head sqarely saying
"you are not an engineer, if the machine breaks you have to stop, an engineer could still measure the parts manually using micrometers, verniers and brain power,But would probably be able to repair the equipment".
He sulked for weeks.
In some industrys that is the way it goes. I am paid very well for what I do and because I have excelled myself I am actually paid more than some of the people that manage me.(although I have obviously been told to keep quiet about the pay)
I think it is true that you DO have to proove yourself and in 6 months or so time you can sit down and tell them that you brought in x amount of new business and have done x amount of jobs with no problems.
It is at this point that you turn around and ask for a pay increase, tell them that people your age with your experience are being paid x amount (bring proof) and then ask your employer if they would feel it fair to increase your salary given that you have done all of the above for them in the last year. They may say yes and give you all the money or only give you part of it. Some may even attach targets to this new money and pay it as bonuses. For some reason they may also say no but try not to give them a "pay up or I am gone" speech as they could just call your bluff.
Get what you can at this meeting after 6 months or so and then once at home look over what they have offered you and decide if it is worth moving on or if you are happy with the new offer. Just remember that the boss may be sitting there still with the bills from your apprenticeship. (I am assuming you did this with the company, don't shoot me if I am wrong)
I think it is true that you DO have to proove yourself and in 6 months or so time you can sit down and tell them that you brought in x amount of new business and have done x amount of jobs with no problems.
It is at this point that you turn around and ask for a pay increase, tell them that people your age with your experience are being paid x amount (bring proof) and then ask your employer if they would feel it fair to increase your salary given that you have done all of the above for them in the last year. They may say yes and give you all the money or only give you part of it. Some may even attach targets to this new money and pay it as bonuses. For some reason they may also say no but try not to give them a "pay up or I am gone" speech as they could just call your bluff.
Get what you can at this meeting after 6 months or so and then once at home look over what they have offered you and decide if it is worth moving on or if you are happy with the new offer. Just remember that the boss may be sitting there still with the bills from your apprenticeship. (I am assuming you did this with the company, don't shoot me if I am wrong)
I'll suggest a different approach. How about asking the boss, what would it take for me to succeed in this company? I'm ambitious and see those around me with larger salaries and would like support to achieve the same. I think you are probably lacking 6 months extra lead engineer experience, but instead of doing the ultimatum, why not restructure the question so it is positive. As a boss, I find this approach much better than confronting about pay directly.
T-J-K
T-J-K
The jiffle king said:
I'll suggest a different approach. How about asking the boss, what would it take for me to succeed in this company? I'm ambitious and see those around me with larger salaries and would like support to achieve the same. I think you are probably lacking 6 months extra lead engineer experience, but instead of doing the ultimatum, why not restructure the question so it is positive. As a boss, I find this approach much better than confronting about pay directly.
T-J-K
Absolutely agree - 'pay me more or I go' is always a terrible way to do it. Being positive about it is always going to get a better reaction.T-J-K
Thanks guys. Some great advice and i will take it on board. I won't go down the ultimatum route as I like the job, just dislike the company. It's a very amatuer run company and not your conventional setup.
dingg said:
you work in the offshore environment , go for interviews with your company competitors, move on as far as I'm aware metering techs are in great demand at the minute and it sounds as if your company is taking the piss
This is my next port of call. SGS are our biggest competitors so I will see if I have any options with regards to them. As you say, metering techs are in great demand and if I had an instrumentation background then I would be able to easily land myself a £50k a year job. Unfortunately I have no academic quals, nor apprenticeships in the instrumentation field. I am solely relying on knowledge of the job which isnt in my favour when trying for a new job. Easty-5 said:
Thanks guys. Some great advice and i will take it on board. I won't go down the ultimatum route as I like the job, just dislike the company. It's a very amatuer run company and not your conventional setup.
ah on knowing this , it may be better if you can get your current employer to back you with some distance learning on instrumentation,or any possibility of going down the svq route or perhaps go with this view to possible new employersdingg said:
you work in the offshore environment , go for interviews with your company competitors, move on as far as I'm aware metering techs are in great demand at the minute and it sounds as if your company is taking the piss
This is my next port of call. SGS are our biggest competitors so I will see if I have any options with regards to them. As you say, metering techs are in great demand and if I had an instrumentation background then I would be able to easily land myself a £50k a year job. Unfortunately I have no academic quals, nor apprenticeships in the instrumentation field. I am solely relying on knowledge of the job which isnt in my favour when trying for a new job. good luck
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